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Thread: Will Computers Ever be Superior to Humans Intellectually?

  1. #61
    disabled account Deus ex Machina's Avatar
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    Originally posted by incrediblecain
    I believe computers will always be limited by their programmers, ultimately if X=3 to a computer and then its introduced that x is not equal to three and it wants to know what x equals it searches everything it can. It could never say X= a jackslapper unless that information is somewhere available to it. Creativity isn't exactly an algorithm it can be, but it is also non-mathematical which is ultimately all a computer can understand. If its not part of them or something they can access or extrapolate then they will not be able to discover that infact X= a jackslapper.
    Creativity can be an algorithm. Creations can be greater than their creators. It is not wholly the material of the mechanism, but its complexity. It can be done in silicon, assuredly when quantum computers become feasible. I have doubts with regard to DNA computing.
    I am a tube amp fan. I will tell you that present digital technology cannot perfectly mimic the nuances of hot glass. However, the improvements over the past few years leads me to think that we are less than 10 years away from perfect replication. Technology has the habit of make its predecessors obsolete.

    <edit> derned typos!!!!
    Last edited by Deus ex Machina; 12-07-02 at 05:32 PM.
    blessed be................

  2. #62
    Elite Member Norm's Avatar
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    If not for the courageous people in history who went against common belief and stuck thier necks out (literally) our present knowledge would still be far behind what it is today.

    The world used to be flat, and some have died trying to explain the truth that it is not flat.

    It's high time that we just let people speak freely, and open our minds to possibilities we ourselves may find wrong. So many times the truth or theory has been stepped on only to later be proven right.

  3. #63
    Maneater JawZ's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Norm
    If not for the courageous people in history who went against common belief and stuck thier necks out (literally) our present knowledge would still be far behind what it is today.

    The world used to be flat, and some have died trying to explain the truth that it is not flat.

    It's high time that we just let people speak freely, and open our minds to possibilities we ourselves may find wrong. So many times the truth or theory has been stepped on only to later be proven right.
    I agree. I think the the negativity is rooted in fear and the fear of being controlled which to me is the real debate.

    Computers will become smarter than us......the debate should be focused on how do we control such a thing...that is...if we can.

    This argument is akin to genetics and the development of clones. It's already been done....so what are the ethical principles in how to apply this technology?

    How will we apply A.I.? Will it serve us or render us obsolete?

    ...formerly the omnipotent UOD

  4. #64
    Regular Member Lightstream's Avatar
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    Well you can always unplug the damn thing.
    The light of life.

  5. #65
    Maneater JawZ's Avatar
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    If any of you would like to read a really good article on all of this I recommend this one from Wired Magazine.

    http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/10.12/holytech.html

    Very easy read.

    Well you can always unplug the damn thing.
    LOL!

    ...formerly the omnipotent UOD

  6. #66
    Elite Member Norm's Avatar
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    Evan, I'm still reading the article, but thought I'd let you know....

    I think this is the book I was asking about earlier. (from the article you posted...

    "If nature computed, why not the entire universe? The first to put down on paper the outrageous idea of a universe-wide computer was science fiction writer Isaac Asimov. In his 1956 short story "The Last Question," humans create a computer smart enough to bootstrap new computers smarter than itself. These analytical engines recursively grow super smarter and super bigger until they act as a single giant computer filling the universe. At each stage of development, humans ask the mighty machine if it knows how to reverse entropy. Each time it answers: "Insufficient data for a meaningful reply." The story ends when human minds merge into the ultimate computer mind, which takes over the entire mass and energy of the universe. Then the universal computer figures out how to reverse entropy and create a universe"

    btw - Nice find

  7. #67
    disabled account Deus ex Machina's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Norm
    If not for the courageous people in history who went against common belief and stuck thier necks out (literally) our present knowledge would still be far behind what it is today.

    The world used to be flat, and some have died trying to explain the truth that it is not flat.

    It's high time that we just let people speak freely, and open our minds to possibilities we ourselves may find wrong. So many times the truth or theory has been stepped on only to later be proven right.

    Bucking convention with divergent thought is not unlike mutations, the great majority deteriments. Free thought and ideas need exploration before application. Some notions are wrong for their time, the people were not ready for them.

    The cool thing is that computers can be taught to ignore conventions.
    blessed be................

  8. #68
    ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ downhill's Avatar
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    Great thread..

    In 8 years, the general population should be able to buy (or build) a purter that rivels todays smaller superputers..One more powerful than Big Blue the beat Garry Kasperov in a series of chess matches. To me, that is just unreal...even with the one I have now..I can't beat the chess program I have if I set it to high...(but then that should come as no suprise to anyone)

    The things that are on the horizon are mind boggling.

    It seems that no one has mentioned Asmiov's Robotic Laws...They pretty much cover the above discussion. Even though the thread is about AI...wouldn't we also use them for droids?

  9. #69
    Elite Member Norm's Avatar
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    Very interesting article you posted Evan, thanks.

    I wish I had the time to read all the books and other articles mentioned as well. I could read that kind of material forever, and still want more.
    I will definitely be keeping my eyes open for the book "The Last Question" even though it's fiction, it will be an exceptional read.

    One can only hope we develop in all areas and learn all there is to know before we either die, or end life on earth through our constant waring, or mishaps.

  10. #70
    SG Enthusiast Blitz's Avatar
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    Nice discussion guys

    Very insightful.

    So my next question is, do you think if Computers Do In Fact become intellecutally superior, will it be ethically correct? Will human rights be at risk?

    Fire Away Part II

  11. #71
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    I think as much that humans have been short sighted throughout history we have been just as pie-eyed as well. where is my flying car and house in the sky
    She's presenting like a mandrill!

  12. #72
    SG Enthusiast Blitz's Avatar
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    Thats actually a very legit point...

  13. #73
    ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ downhill's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Blitz
    Nice discussion guys

    Very insightful.

    So my next question is, do you think if Computers Do In Fact become intellecutally superior, will it be ethically correct? Will human rights be at risk?

    Fire Away Part II
    Asimov's Laws of Robotics

    A discussion...

    I don't think when he wrote them, that he truly envisioned the computer age as it's come to be.


    Still, for 1940, interesting reading.

    First Law:

    A robot may not injure a human being, or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.

    Second Law:

    A robot must obey orders given it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.

    Third Law:

    A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

  14. #74
    disabled account Deus ex Machina's Avatar
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    Originally posted by downhill
    It seems that no one has mentioned Asmiov's Robotic Laws...They pretty much cover the above discussion. Even though the thread is about AI...wouldn't we also use them for droids?
    I had the pleasure of meeting Isaac Asimov in Philadephia several years ago. He was grumpy, but cordial. I enjoyed reading his books, not so much for the science fiction but for his social commentary.

    shant,
    david

    BTW... No flying cars, however there will be a magnet drive train very soon.
    blessed be................

  15. #75
    Elite Member Norm's Avatar
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    The Last Question

    Found it, and it's online in it's entirety. Very short story, I was expecting something longer.

  16. #76
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    The following is not philosophical.

    I have known some that were.
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