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Thread: unions are greedy and selfish.

  1. #1
    Senior Member onetrueday's Avatar
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    unions are greedy and selfish.

    They care NOTHING but the size of thier membership and dues collected. Inspired by the 'warez' thread.

    Unions, the very 'organizations' that are meant to protect the workers. I work under a union myself, so I understand first hand. All they care about is the number of members and maintaining a VERY short term life span.

    If you question my opinion, I have two examples. The dock workers on the west coast are on strike. It's already having an effect on our industry here in the us and will probably futher drag us into a recession. A good number of the paper pushing clerks make OVER 100,000 a year. Some of them make over 150,000. They are NOT high trained labor, just blue collar workers. So, what's the issue? The docks are one of the slowest and outdated in the WORLD. It's only a matter of time before companies start inporting through mexico and canada instead it's so bad. The union doesnt want technology to help speed the dock, so I imagine in less then ten years most of thier membership will BE GONE. Remember the steel industry in the us?

    Another example is the post office, where I work. I read before that if the workers and supervision took a 8-10% pay cut, then the stamp could go back to 34 cents and we'd be TOTALLY out of the red. WTF! I'd take the paycut for the security!! I make 45k a year, plus benefits! The a**holes that I work with think that 5 weeks of vacation, plus 13 days of 'carrying over' sick time isnt enough. HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH THEN!!!!!!

    it often seems the average union employee's motto is:

    "If I drop it on the ground, it's a janitor's job to pick it up. Not my job, someone else's."
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  2. #2
    I agree, totally. The mafia, still controls and is directly tied to the unions.


    in NYC, if you do construction and do not take a union contract, you will be in real deep trouble, either there will be violence towards the people who are not union, or destruction of the construction of the union site. They have no regards for anyone else for that matter., forgetting that this is America and whoever offers the cheaper service will win the contract, not because they are just in the union.

  3. #3
    R.I.P. 2016-11-23 Croc's Avatar
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    Hi Michelle. No critisism here Michelle but:
    First you should research your facts for you are wrong about the Longshoremen being on strike.
    From what I've read the Longshoremen were LOCKED OUT of their workplace by management (owners). They want to work and can't do so because they can't get into the port. What has happened since then may have changed the perception of the truth here but that's where it all started.

    Secondly, if your experience of Unionism is that all you see is the payment of fees and no "action" from your elected delegates then maybe it's time to elect new delegates that will act.

    Yes..... by now, (if you didn't already know) I am a Union Delegate and I can assure you that if any issue/problem arises that affects any of the members where I work I take the issue to management. As far as other delegates go, it is up to the members to pressure the delegates into working for them as well. I guess I am fortunate because I enjoy the arguements with management.
    Am I unique? Hell no!! Just in the company I work for in Australia there are another 12 of us that stick it to our employers whenever we can.

    Do you really believe that the cost of a stamp would be reduced if the Postal Workers took an 8 to 10% paycut? Doubtfull at best.

    13 sick days are more than we get here. We get 8 per year and I am gratefull that they accumulate. I used them all (6 weeks) in one hit last year for recovery from a knee operation.


    5 weeks annual leave. We get 4 weeks with a 17.5% loading on the holiday pay. Why? For the lost opportunity of overtime. We didn't fight for it either. The Government gave it to us in legislation.

    "If I drop it on the ground, it's a janitor's job to pick it up. Not my job, someone else's." Maybe in your workplace that is normal and accepted by the workers. That's very *oldschool* and would not be accepted now.
    I think we all must remember that it was our fathers and grandfathers that fought for these workers entitlements and for very good reason. It was to give job security to themselves and their offspring.

    Be nice now.

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    Senior Member onetrueday's Avatar
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    First of all, thank you for educating me on the dock workers. I got my information mostly from NPR and it's either mis-reported or I mis-understood.

    I guess my problem with unions really comes from the discontentment of my fellow works. I have an excellant job with fantastic benefits. I am thankful EVERY DAY that I am so blessed to have such a fantastic job. For the most part, the union has been there for me. Yet, the most of the people that I work with are ungrateful and entirely selfish. They'll stop working and call the union over at the smallest disagreement. They act like children, or worse.

    I wasnt complaining about my sick time, believe me! I am very THANKFUL that I have it!! I was very sick with lillian was born and my sick time and annual ensured that we kept the house. I think it's AMAZING that sick time can build up and ensure my future. However, once again it's abused like a sickness. People feel the four or five weeks of annual isnt nearly enough and that they are ENTITLED to call in sick once a month too. Sick time is insurance for me. It's sad though when disaster strikes, they'll be signs up with them BEGGING for people to donate annual leave.

    I know sometimes we become what we hate, but it hurts that no one can ever seem happy with what they have.
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    SCSI Dude Faust's Avatar
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    unions are just like some forms of government. they exist for very good reasons - one of which is to protect and serve it's constituancy.

    are they prone to corruption? very much so. are they all corrupt? no. do they still serve their purposes? yes, as long as corruption doesn't get out of hand.

    unions can be very good for employees. especially within a very skilled workforce. you don't want to be say...... a Fortran coder and them find yourself vaccuuming floors half the day in order to stay employed. unions tend to either have themselves or get employers to offer benefits. better working conditions, more "worker say" in the functioning of the workplace. it's all supposed to benefit the worker.

    i will admit that there are times when (from the outside) i see a particular union with a LOT of power. they get bent out of shape because they want a (for instance) 25% pay increase and the corporation will only give them $15. these people earn on average $80,000+ per year! if that union has the power to shut down, say....... 85% of the overland shipping in the US, they have what i consider to be too much leverage and are guilty of what boils down to extortion...... but of the american people rather than just the corporation. they wanna wreak havoc with just their employers that's just fine by me. but when they start letting their influence go outside those borders..... i cry foul.

    in summary.......... unions are good, for the most part. IMO, of course.

  6. #6
    Second Most EVIL YARDofSTUF's Avatar
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    unions are good if good ppl are in control. i'm a union worker and my union doesnt help the workers much cuz we have alot of lazy and worthless ppl in them, but were taking care of that.


    one thing the union does give the workers are great benefits, well worth the now 34 somethign a month

  7. #7
    R.I.P. 2016-11-23 Croc's Avatar
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    Putting the discontentment to bed and sorting the complaints into the good accept or delete baskets is part of the Delegate's job. If you are not getting that.... elect new delegates. Just by this action alone, you and your co-workers are sending a message to wanna-be delegates that you are not going to put up with the way things were done.

    Sick time is abused because it is given to the employee as a right.
    Under the Award we work under, an employee who goes sick for 1 day must supply a Doctor's Certificate. If the same person has what we refer to as a "two day option", the Award states we do NOT have to have a Doctor's Certificate. I effect that can give you a Friday and a Monday off without proof of being sick. Long weekend coming up. I can feel it LOL

    Side note, Michelle. You posted your income. You may find it interesting that I earn under 1/2 that, after factoring the rate of exchange so I will guard whatever right/benefit we get.
    We have Income Protection Insurance as well and this is funded by the company to all factory employees. We pay this back by reducing our breaks for a few minutes. That (the insurance) was going to be thrown out at the last agreement talks. The arguement was? It cost the company too much.

    Probably too, you may not see a lot of what goes on until you are involved yourself. A lot of the work done by a delegate is 1 on 1 after a complaint. Usually it can be sorted.

    Unions do have their place in this world. They are the workplace peacemakers/ the watchdog with Safety issues/ the negotiators and a lot more.
    I think there should be a wage paid for doing it. J/k

    Enough of this. I have a bed waiting and it's past my bedtime.

    Have fun.

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  8. #8
    R.I.P. 2016-11-23 Croc's Avatar
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    Originally posted by YARDofSTUF
    unions are good if good ppl are in control. i'm a union worker and my union doesnt help the workers much cuz we have alot of lazy and worthless ppl in them, but were taking care of that.


    one thing the union does give the workers are great benefits, well worth the now 34 somethign a month
    Good luck with taking care of those problems, YoS.

    Hey... Our fees are higher than yours. Not fair. Hmmph!!
    I'm going to complain to me when I get me to work tomorrow. Not fair, YoS, Not fair at all.

    Croc.
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  9. #9
    Second Most EVIL YARDofSTUF's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Croc
    Good luck with taking care of those problems, YoS.

    Hey... Our fees are higher than yours. Not fair. Hmmph!!
    I'm going to complain to me when I get me to work tomorrow. Not fair, YoS, Not fair at all.

    Croc.

    they were 25 bucks but we got an increase to rebuild the teamsters strike funds.

    we also get money back for sick days we dont use.

  10. #10
    TypicalWhitePerson JC's Avatar
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    Re: unions are greedy and selfish.

    Originally posted by onetrueday
    The union doesnt want technology to help speed the dock, so I imagine in less then ten years most of thier membership will BE GONE. "
    My understanding on the technology updates are barcodes, Yes barcodes is what this is about. The workers and the union Do not want barcodes?????I figured they allready had them, for years. It would seem pretty tough to keep track of that much cargo without computers
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  11. #11
    I am so glad the IT field does not have a union, or I would not be making the money I am making now, that is all I can say.


    I will never forget the time I use to work at a local Pathmark when I was a teenager, and the meat union workers were on strike, because Pathmark did not give them what they want. I remember I was a cashier at the time(i had a different union), and all of the union workers who were on strike and came in and started to destroy the place, they wrecked the aisles, threw food all over, and at one point they started to throw wagons at the frond windows breaking glass all over, I just remember running out there fearing for my life.

    Just recently a local home deopt was under attack by a union because they were hiring non-union workers or something like that, they came into the place and realsed some paint and chemicals, that actually closed the entire home depot down for 72 hours, because you could not breathe this stuff in or you would be in the hospital.

    I thought that was ridiculous that the union would put innocent good people in a dangerous situation just because they did not get their 20% raise instead of a 15% raise, or because they would hire non-union workers.

    I thought we live in America?

  12. #12
    Senior Member onetrueday's Avatar
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    Re: Re: unions are greedy and selfish.

    Originally posted by JC
    My understanding on the technology updates are barcodes, Yes barcodes is what this is about. The workers and the union Do not want barcodes?????I figured they allready had them, for years. It would seem pretty tough to keep track of that much cargo without computers
    that is part of it. The union wants everyone that joins the company as a result of this tech to be part of their union as well.

    Seems to me it's more about protecting the union's member base then protecting jobs.
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    Second Most EVIL YARDofSTUF's Avatar
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    hiring non union workers is a huge NO in a union work place!!!

    a large member base protects workers much better than a small member base.

  14. #14
    ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ downhill's Avatar
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    The dock workers were NOT on strike.....they were locked out. A very different thing.

    The lockout was caused by the dock workers having a slowdown, according to most of the news I read....

    I do know that for the most part, the impression is that the workers are on strike. That is simply not true.

    I support the ILWU. They are well paid and want to keep it that way. The situation is not a strike. It is legally a lockout. It is the employers that are refusing to allow the longshore workers access to the docks.

    The issue with the longshore workers is not attempting to keep technology out. But that the operators of that new technology (which will be eliminating some jobs) be union. That is, the computer operators be ILWU.

    The history of the west coast longshore is much different than that of the east coast and gulf coast. The mafia has never had its hands in the west coast union.

    Remember, the problems the lockout is causing is because so called American companies have their manufacturing plants overseas and/or they are using parts from overseas. There was a time when America was self-sufficient!

    It's OK for the west coast docks to use container cranes built by a subsidary of the Chinese People's Liberation Army and installed in the American ports with Chinese labor. But it is now becoming not OK to use American union labor to load and unload the containers?

    My last word...

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    with the Longshoremen out here on the West Coats...it's the dock owners trying to for the longshoremen to sign a contract that DOES NOT include changes they would like such as safer working conditions and new equopment. There's a port here in Stockton, many people showed up for work as usual, but when they got there, the gates were locked and security refused to let them into work.
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    The Quiet One WhoNut's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Croc
    From what I've read the Longshoremen were LOCKED OUT of their workplace by management (owners). They want to work and can't do so because they can't get into the port. What has happened since then may have changed the perception of the truth here but that's where it all started.
    A few words from the inside here....

    The longshore workers were locked out because they slowed the job down. This was the same tactic employed in '96 and '99. This year, the employers played hardball during the negotiations by saying "you slow us down, and we'll close the doors".

    The slowdown was essentially a strike with pay. A ship that normally costs us $80,000 in labor costs to work would cost $200,000. This is unacceptable, and there is nothing we can do about it, short of kicking them out the door.

    They of course used safety as an excuse to work slow, claiming that the production we experienced for the last three years was not normal, but a result of a "speed-up" on their part to get the job done. A totally humorous defense if it didn't cost the employers (and the consumer in the end!) all the additional money.

    Don't get me wrong...I happen to like a lot of these guys, and I think their union has made the waterfront a better place. My salary as a manager is higher than most other industries, due solely to the fact that my employees are well paid. The issue here is one of control. They were told what would happen if they slowed down, and they decided to see if we were serious. Obviously, we were.
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    The Quiet One WhoNut's Avatar
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    Originally posted by downhill
    The history of the west coast longshore is much different than that of the east coast and gulf coast. The mafia has never had its hands in the west coast union.
    True indeed. The only issue I have with them is their mob-like tactics. There are still a lot of jobs on the waterfront that are unnecessary. If we hire fewer workers (i.e. only what we need), we get singled out and slowed down.

    Remember, the problems the lockout is causing is because so called American companies have their manufacturing plants overseas and/or they are using parts from overseas. There was a time when America was self-sufficient!
    Another true statement, with no easy solution. I drive a subaru. My home theater system, computer, clothing, toothbrush, clock radio, bedroom furniture, telephone, washing machine, and watch were all made in foreign countries. Hell, even my wall to wall carpeting was made in Canada. We do live in a global economy, and in this country, consumers have voted with their dollars.

    Side note: If we closed the borders and consumed only American made products, there would be no longshoremen.
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  18. #18
    Elite Member mountainman's Avatar
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    I am in the OEA/NEA which are the teachers unions for people here in Ohio. They are great. They do all of the contract negotiating and take care of issues when things go bad.

    They are very good. Of course they are worried about membership and money. They can't stay alive if they don't.

    You are right though when it comes to the dock workers and things like that. I am not an advocate of things like strikes because kids need an education. I think they just need to work harder at resolving issues.

    Great thread, OTD.

  19. #19
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    Re: unions are greedy and selfish.

    Originally posted by onetrueday
    They care NOTHING but the size of thier membership and dues collected. Inspired by the 'warez' thread.

    Unions, the very 'organizations' that are meant to protect the workers. I work under a union myself, so I understand first hand. All they care about is the number of members and maintaining a VERY short term life span.

    If you question my opinion, I have two examples. The dock workers on the west coast are on strike. It's already having an effect on our industry here in the us and will probably futher drag us into a recession. A good number of the paper pushing clerks make OVER 100,000 a year. Some of them make over 150,000. They are NOT high trained labor, just blue collar workers. So, what's the issue? The docks are one of the slowest and outdated in the WORLD. It's only a matter of time before companies start inporting through mexico and canada instead it's so bad. The union doesnt want technology to help speed the dock, so I imagine in less then ten years most of thier membership will BE GONE. Remember the steel industry in the us?

    Another example is the post office, where I work. I read before that if the workers and supervision took a 8-10% pay cut, then the stamp could go back to 34 cents and we'd be TOTALLY out of the red. WTF! I'd take the paycut for the security!! I make 45k a year, plus benefits! The a**holes that I work with think that 5 weeks of vacation, plus 13 days of 'carrying over' sick time isnt enough. HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH THEN!!!!!!

    it often seems the average union employee's motto is:

    "If I drop it on the ground, it's a janitor's job to pick it up. Not my job, someone else's."
    You make 45K a year? What is your job title....I need to look into this...seriously....that is really good. PM me if you want. TIA

    ...formerly the omnipotent UOD

  20. #20
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    I guess it comes down to the field you work in. The CCPOA, my dad's Union, is one of the best in the state. Without them, correctional peace officers would be payed minimum wage with no beffitits. How would you feel if the men and women keeping the worst of the worst of society under controll in prisions were under payed and under trained?

    Because of the CCPOA, the guards cannot work 24 hours at a time, which before the union had occured.
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