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Thread: Well? No comments...

  1. #21
    Advanced Member fredra's Avatar
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    ahem!

    Hmmmmmmm.... ok I grab the bait.
    Ken... I am not available for the next few weeks, my apologies.
    As soon as I return, I will check with you to see if there are any open spaces available for me to place my hat and provide the resource.
    What has me wondering here is ....where is
    blebs , Tonyt , Norm , Storm , croc , denolith2 , juggernaugt ....to name a few, Ken get the bait hook out for those guys.
    A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure.

  2. #22
    Assistant Admin Ken's Avatar
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    Hey Fred, I guess we can let you slide for a few weeks! hehehhh

    I am not sure if GreEd saw my last post on the first page and is pretending that he didn't or not! hehehehehe


    Yes, quite a few members seem to be hiding now. I am goning to have to plant some good bait to catch some of them!

  3. #23
    Official Photographer Dakota's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    I think this is an awesome idea as I believe that computer security is probably the biggest concern for most folks. We seem to have the tweaking technology down to a fine science now and once that's done on your system, there's not much need to make ANY changes unless your ISP or connection method(s) change.

    System security changes day to day, and sometimes several times a day. I do rely a lot on this forum to stay at the forefront of the current security issues and I'd (also) like to see more of this here. We need to be on the cutting edge as this will be most everyone's priority to keep their systems safe from any kind of intrusion.

    Volunteer? Hmmm...well, not sure exactly what for, but I'd like to help where I can, Ken. Just let me know!
    We Remember...
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    40 miles SW of Mt. St. Helens

  4. #24
    Elite Member Norm's Avatar
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    I'll help if I can, but with guys like greEd helping out, I'll feel like a fifth wheel. Check out greEd's website, he's done a good job over there, with some links to great downloads as well.
    I think he lives for security info

    I'll just try filling in what others may overlook. I couldn't give any better advice than what greEd has to offer, his attention/knowledge to/of the details is out of MY league where security is concerned.

    I can help the newbs, but for the more advanced types greEd is your man

  5. #25
    Official Photographer Dakota's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Norm
    Check out greEd's website, he's done a good job over there, with some links to great downloads as well.
    I think he lives for security info
    Wow! Yeah! That's very impressive!!!
    We Remember...
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    40 miles SW of Mt. St. Helens

  6. #26
    TCP/IP Dude rmrucker's Avatar
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    Brief note. Ken, my plane leaves in several hours for a week long ski vacation -- and I have not packed a thing yet! Typical... Is it April yet? When are those dang taxes due anyways?

    One thing I think that should be addressed for newbies is exactly how most people get infected -- and how to prevent it.

    I cannot count the number of times I have heard people say -- I have a firewall, so how did I get infected? Or I have an Anti-virus program, so why didn't it prevent the infection?

    Anti-virus programs are only as good as their latest definitions. Every major virus attack in recent history has been from a virus that was NOT in the definitions. Relying on an Anti-virus -- and especially one that is not compulsively up-to-date -- is likely false security.

    Firewalls also breed false security. People don't understand the real utility of a firewall. They don't understand how the Trojan got there and why the firewall did not prevent it. There are many sites spreading false information in this area -- like warning uses that their "referer" and "user agent" fields are exposed and that a firewall can fix this security risk. Firewalls in their basic functioning (stealthing ports?) would have been useless in preventing all major virus hits in recent memory.

    So, while I agree that Anti-virus programs and Firewalls are important, they frequently lead to users believing they are protected against infection when they really are not. This is the reality.

    Many years ago, the major source of virus infection was the floppy disk. Since most users now days don't exchange data this way, that risk is now fairly low -- but not non-existent. Today, the real threats come from three main sources:

    Email attachments
    Scripting (web and email based)
    Buffer overruns (plus other OS, browser, or program vulnerabilities)

    I think any primer on security needs to address how to close the door on these main sources of compromise. JMHO.
    ________________

    BTW - Thanks for defining physical intrusion; for awhile I thought that one of the new SG changes might be that it was becoming more of an adult site. OK, time for bed.

  7. #27
    Security Specialist greEd's Avatar
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    Hey guys
    It's good to see everyone ready to bring all the knowledge to the table and start flashing cards, but I think we need to assign specific areas to specific groups and have others add where necessary on those topics.

    Ken ,
    I began a very basic write up of firewalls on the previous page and will continue on it as I have time. I don't know if its a good idea to begin the writing there or somewhere else?

    rmrucker,
    while agree most with your previous post I would have to disagree about the firewall issue. Well over half of all intrusion reports come from misconfigured firewalls. ( I.T.'s who achieved getting a CCNA on paper and began writing access rules on a pix firewall )
    I do agree with putting much emphasis on virus definiton updates, but someone with basic vb skills will always be able to create/manipulate current code to bypass virus technology, but with a properly configured firewall a trojan can sit and idle on a specified port all day long, but with it blocked at a properly set wall it wil never gain communication.
    Buffer Overflows .... well buffer overflows if the attacker gets an overrun and begin's injecting code nothing can stop that.

    regards,
    greEd
    "I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional...) for AT clones... It's not portable and it probably [won't ever] support anything other than AT hard disks, as thats all I have :-(." --Posted on Usenet August 1991 by Linus Trovalds
    http://www.computerglitch.net
    curiosity builds security | dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda bs=512 count=100
    EOF

  8. #28
    TCP/IP Dude rmrucker's Avatar
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    I agree. A trojan behind an appropriately configured "outbound packet filter" firewall is no more a danger than no trojan at all. (Except perhaps some unwanted CPU cycle use...)

    The key is "appropriately configured". Many newbies just don't understand what firewalls do -- and that is the problem.

    Also, with all the new "leak test" data (not GRC but Firehole, YALTA, TooLeaky, and Outbound), the "leak-proof" firewall has been shown to be relatively non-existent.

    I understand the issues: some of the leaks are due to the trojan simply using iexplore.exe to access the Internet -- so just block IE. But, since most application-based firewall users allow IE access, this is not really a 'good enough' solution. Outbound's TDI layer leakage slips underneath ZoneAlarm -- and this is even more concerning.

    Again, I think Firewalls are great -- but like every tool, they have limitations...

  9. #29
    Advanced Member fredra's Avatar
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    I have to be in total agreement with Norm.
    greEd is one amazing person when it comes to security....
    Sometimes I wonder if he sleeps with security on his mind...jk pal.
    That is supposed to be a compliment on your expertize greEd, I "bow" to his knowledge on the subject.
    A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure.

  10. #30
    Elite Member TonyT's Avatar
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    I read some of the thread.....

    An IMPORTANT first step has been skipped.

    Basic Security begins with some "common sense" practices that we all may take for granted because we are above average computer users.

    Some "basic security" measures:

    1. Do not open email attachments unless you have scanned it w/ an AV app. Stress also that this includes attachments from relatives and friends.

    2. Store passwords in secure locations, not on a piece of paper taped to tthe underside of the keyboard.

    3. Use mixed case and mixed charachters for passwords, not your initials or names, at least 8 characters long.

    4. Scan ALL downloaded files prior to opening them. Exceptions are images, txt and html files, a few others too.

    5. Scan .eml files that arrive as a forwarded attachment. (usually via AOL users)

    6. When using chat programs, configure them to only allow connections from trusted people. Disable file sharing in these apps if used by your children.

    7. NEVER store credit card info on the hard drive.

    There are many more common sense basic security measures that could be listed.

    This IS the beginning point for basic security. What follows this are the basics of the rest of the security apps, network settings and the like.
    No one has any right to force data on you
    and command you to believe it or else.
    If it is not true for you, it isn't true.

    LRH

  11. #31
    Resident Firefighter Dunster's Avatar
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    Good point TonyT!!! I guess sometimes you even have to take people down to that level of basic.
    Join the Folding Team!

  12. #32
    Resident Firefighter Dunster's Avatar
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    One more thing for the basic.... keeping your OS up to date with Microsoft's updater. Keeps the constant MS security holes filled up. We all know you never need to do that wiht Linux or Mac
    Join the Folding Team!

  13. #33
    Elite Member TonyT's Avatar
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    I guess sometimes you even have to take people down to that level of basic
    Absolutely! Esp for the new folks that come to SG.

    Powers users are not born, they are made by frequenting sites like this one, so we must reach them at their level of reality (agreement) and bring them up to our levels, little by little.
    No one has any right to force data on you
    and command you to believe it or else.
    If it is not true for you, it isn't true.

    LRH

  14. #34
    Resident Firefighter Dunster's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TonyT


    Absolutely! Esp for the new folks that come to SG.

    Powers users are not born, they are made by frequenting sites like this one, so we must reach them at their level of reality (agreement) and bring them up to our levels, little by little.
    Great statement TonyT. I must admit, I was pretty green when I joined SG. I have learned so much in a short time thanks to this site and others.
    Join the Folding Team!

  15. #35
    Security Specialist greEd's Avatar
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    Sometimes I wonder if he sleeps with security on his mind...jk pal
    It happens from time to time

    regards,
    greEd
    "I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional...) for AT clones... It's not portable and it probably [won't ever] support anything other than AT hard disks, as thats all I have :-(." --Posted on Usenet August 1991 by Linus Trovalds
    http://www.computerglitch.net
    curiosity builds security | dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda bs=512 count=100
    EOF

  16. #36
    Regular Member denolth2's Avatar
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    Talking compared to all you great ones....

    I know nothing...
    den2 :O

  17. #37
    Assistant Admin Ken's Avatar
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    Re: compared to all you great ones....

    Originally posted by denolth2
    I know nothing...
    den2 :O
    Oh Denolth, did you just volunteer to do some work on spyware/adware...

    What do you guys think? I think he just volunteered!

    Thanks Denolth! We know that we can count on you!

  18. #38
    Regular Member denolth2's Avatar
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    Talking what? Me? Work?

    Ken, you must be thinking about my alter ego....the one who slaves away....

    den2 knows nothing and has nothing to show for it...

    flattery also gets you to go around in circles in a square room!

    but seriously, you guys and gals and any fuzzy artificial intelligences out there disguised as SG users really do know more than I do on that stuff...and to prove it, you will reply to either this or any of the other things in this forum with insightful comments to help the newbie or adept in the arcane arts of security or networking issues related to security.

    thus...I know nothing compared to you all

    denolth 2 :O

  19. #39
    Assistant Admin Ken's Avatar
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    GREAT!

    You accept! THANKS!

  20. #40
    Elite Member Norm's Avatar
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    Re: GREAT!

    Originally posted by Ken
    You accept! THANKS!
    That's what I get from his post too, thanks denolth2 I knew you'd help

    Next time, could you just write in plain english, that post was hard to decipher

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