Covid-19

[nightowl]

been working from home since march. Dont mind it. traffic was bad since Ottawa introduced a unreliable LRT system

[Philip]

Yeah, I don't mind it either, but I've been doing it for years. Many people seem to be working from home, but then there are many professions/trades that can't do this and social interaction is important in many aspects for, well, society.

[Brk]

I went into the supermarket today and forgot my mask; I felt far more dread about forgetting it than I likely should have, and that freaked me out. Don't like this "new normal" at all.

[Easto]

I can't tell you how many times I've just closed the car door and realized that I don't have a mask. We are now keeping several of the thinner paper kind in a baggie in the glove compartments of both cars. I've had to fall back on those a couple of times.

[Philip]

Hi Burke!

I keep a few of the paper ones in my car as well, I've had a situation where me, or my daughter forgot one and needed it. Most supermarkets/stores have paper ones near the door for such cases though it seems. I don't like it either, but it is the prudent thing to do, at least until there is a vaccine out I suppose, especially considering the death toll is now over 200,000 in the US.

[jeremyboycool]

It was the prudent thing to do long before the death toll passed 200k. We should have been wearing masks from the start, but Americans didn't take it seriously enough. Too many people wanted to pretend that this was just going to magically vanish.

[Philip]

Masks alone help slow the spread, I totally agree they are a prudent first step, but they are not a magic bullet, or a long term solution. Some countries may have had more adequate response than others, but politics are not the solution either.. We still need working vaccines.

[jeremyboycool]

There is no such thing as a "magic bullet" when it comes to something like this, but proper application of social distancing would have saved a lot of lives here and the poor leadership coming out of the Whitehouse certainly didn't help with that fact. And I don't see a good reason to pretend otherwise or ignore the role "politics" has played in this.

[FunK]

My 2 cents

While covid is a real virus and a real threat, it has been hyped into something that it is not.
The media reported stats and numbers are skewed and false.

The CDC just released their latest fatality report. For weeks 2/1/20 through 8/22/20 in the US, The CDC reports "For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death."

This is 6% of deaths, not 6% of the population. This means that the number of people dead from covid alone in the US is only 10,980.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/c...ekly/index.htm

Covid is not actually a threat to people in decent health.

Thus lockdowns are a poor solution. Masks don't really protect anyone nor prevent spread. The solution that should be being promoted is "get healthy and stay healthy".

We'll never see main stream media prompte health because they make their dollars from companies that produce unhealthy products and big pharma (largest $ advertiser).

Nailed it.

[Philip]

Hi Funk

I am not convinced. There is always a difference between deaths caused by a virus itself, and virus-related deaths.

The global annual respiratory deaths associated with influenza (the common flu) are an estimated average of 389,000 people, 67% of them are people 65 and older.
The global deaths associated with Covid-19 (for ~9 months so far) are 995,000, or roughly 3 times (300%) more deadly than the common flu.
Both statistics include cases "associated with" the viruses, not only those with that one single condition. Naturally, younger healthy people with fewer medical conditions have lower mortality rate.

It is also apparently very contagious, there was a CDC report back in May about a 122 member choir practice where 87% of people got sick out of one symptomatic person.

[Easto]

I have to side with Philip on this one.

I think using the criteria that the majority of the deaths include underlying conditions and the rest of us have nothing to worry about just doesn't hold up. I guess my knee-jerk reaction to that would be... "If you're really not that worried why not go work in a Covid-19 ward at a local hospital and help out"?

[jeremyboycool]

If you decide you don't need to engage in proper social distancing because you believe yourself to "healthy" then you also decided that you are OK with spreading Covid-19 and contributing to the death rate of those you deem as "unhealthy". Even if someone is in a low risk category for Covid-19 that doesn't prevent them from spreading the illness and contributing to the death rate of those in the high-risk category.

[Philip]

If you decide you don't need to engage in proper social distancing because you believe yourself to "healthy" then you also decided that you are OK with spreading Covid-19 and contributing to the death rate of those you deem as "unhealthy". Even if someone is in a low risk category for Covid-19 that doesn't prevent them from spreading the illness and contributing to the death rate of those in the high-risk category.

This may only be a short-term issue, for the couple of weeks they are sick. After that they would eventually develop some type of immunity and not spread it anymore.

[FunK]

Hi Funk

I am not convinced. There is always a difference between deaths caused by a virus itself, and virus-related deaths.

The global annual respiratory deaths associated with influenza (the common flu) are an estimated average of 389,000 people, 67% of them are people 65 and older.
The global deaths associated with Covid-19 (for ~9 months so far) are 995,000, or roughly 3 times (300%) more deadly than the common flu.
Both statistics include cases "associated with" the viruses, not only those with that one single condition. Naturally, younger healthy people with fewer medical conditions have lower mortality rate.

It is also apparently very contagious, there was a CDC report back in May about a 122 member choir practice where 87% of people got sick out of one symptomatic person.

There are different strains as well. Some are more deadly than others. Viruses tend to weaken over time. Deaths for the last few months are negligible compared to the first outbreak. The average age of deaths from covid are higher than the average age of deaths in the US as well. Old people and those with pre-existing conditions should be wearing masks, quarantining and social distancing. They should be kept away from people that are infected. IE, we shouldn't be putting covid into old folk's homes.

Kids, teens, young adults and healthy adults without pre-existing conditions should be getting on with their lives. There is no vaccine, which works toward herd immunity. Since we don't have a safe vaccine and likely won't, possibly ever, healthy folks should be allowed to go about their lives if they so wish. They get it, perhaps are asymptomatic or get a sniffle or a fever, beat it and get on with their lives. Which would be working toward herd immunity.. Naturally... Locking down healthy folks (or people that value their personal freedoms) is asinine.

I'm in Japan. There have been some forms of lockdowns but not much. Most are requests by the government to wear masks, social distance, etc. But life hasn't changed much where I live. Restaurants and bars are open and populated. Public transport is working. Folks go about their lives and the impact has been minimal. No draconian overreaches by the government were needed. The island I live on has the highest percentage of folks over 100 just about anywhere on earth, so really should be getting devastated and we're not.. Some folks have died, some folks have been infected but it's really just not that big of a deal. The CDC has stated that their stats show 6% of US covid deaths are directly related to just covid. Granted the US is pretty fat overall and diabetes is a big issue. But really it comes down to compromised immune systems and there are just so many unhealthy folks eating crap foods and taking way too many medications in the US, making Covid more of an issue. Even with that risk factor, the FUD related to "cases" now is just silliness.

Mark my words. In a few years when everyone looks back on how this was handled, with the lockdowns and closing businesses / work / schools, etc, it will be a textbook example of what not to do in the future. Don't even get me started on the fraud associated with "cases" and the money. It's a scam and it's being exploited to the fullest.

[jeremyboycool]

This may only be a short-term issue, for the couple of weeks they are sick. After that they would eventually develop some type of immunity and not spread it anymore.

Studies have shown that antibodies in the blood may drop off sharply and shortly after the convalesce phase, so it may not be wise to bank on natural immunity. However, the antibody test so far has been unreliable and determining how much of an immunity people have and for how long that immunity will last is murky waters, in my opinion. As far as I am concerned anyone not practicing proper social distancing is showing a severe lack of personal responsibility and a self-centered moral compass.

[FunK]

I have to side with Philip on this one.

I think using the criteria that the majority of the deaths include underlying conditions and the rest of us have nothing to worry about just doesn't hold up. I guess my knee-jerk reaction to that would be... "If you're really not that worried why not go work in a Covid-19 ward at a local hospital and help out"?

If you were qualified to work in a Covid ward, wouldn't you?

[Philip]

FunK, I agree with some of what you're saying as to the government role being somewhat heavy-handed in all this. However, it has been highly politicized, I think people should be allowed to social distance if they feel threatened, we should allow school kids to learn remotely if they want, not make fun of people wearing masks, allow for remote work, properly protect people in higher risk groups, etc. The least/easiest/cheapest thing to do is wear a mask when in crowded spaces. It is also important to keep the number of new cases to a low level that wouldn't overwhelm hospitals (it happened in many places like Italy, New York City, etc.). Down here in Florida life is mostly back to normal, the only difference is people wearing masks, no rock concerts, and some people working/studying remotely as feasible.

Also, to put the government response a bit into perspective, Japan's death rate from Covid-19 is fewer than 1 person per 100,000, there have been fewer than 1000 deaths. There are theories that the population may have been exposed to some similar virus before, which caused some type of immunity boost. USA's death rate is 38.6 people per 100,000, and we have over 200,000 deaths, that's three times more than the US casualties in the Vietnam war.



Jeremy, while there is still much to be learned about Covid-19, I've read a few studies as well, and many say there are antibodies for "at least 3 months", and the presence of antibodies is not the only/determining factor for immunity. There are also reactive T cells that could remain in your body for 15+ years.

[jeremyboycool]

Philip, not even the scientists fully understand how our natural immunity systems stands up to Covid-19 yet. Much of that aspect is still unknown, and the studies done so far have a lot of gaps. But cases are still rolling in and the death count is still growing, so clearly, we are not to the point where we can depend on a natural immunity. However, we do know that social distancing works.

[Easto]

In normal times it was considered polite to cover your nose and mouth when you sneezed. I'm wondering why there wasn't an anti cover yourself coalition back then? Why so many people are fighting so hard now to be inconsiderate is beyond me.

[David]

TonyT,

I respect you and your intellect, but I must respond.

We are at the point of ~250K deaths from covid. Indeed many of these people had associated illnesses which left them prone to morbidity, however that has become more typical than you might imagine. "Decent health" becomes a subjective term, in that hypertension, diabetes and hypocholesteremia are manageable but chronic ailments. No, just "getting healthy" is not an option with the majority of people. Also consider that those who do not die, may suffer from lingering permanent damage. I am seeing quite a bit of that in my practice.
The CDC reports have been tainted since the requirement for WH filtration.

AS for masks, You are wrong. If your words carry any weight with others, please stop saying that. AS for lockdowns, again, they helped where the population en masse followed the instruction. By all means, read the experiments and the protocols. THIS is the problem we have in social media America, opinion is more important than fact.
Dentistry is the most dangerous professions during this epidemic. By following PPE protocols, we (my office) have avoided infection. I am also the person who does all of the shopping in the household. Again, by following protocols, I have remained healthy. Mind you, I am a cancer survivor who is on medication, almost 60 years of age.
The danger of the Covid epidemic was known in December of 2019. I have a colleague in the Navy (whose politics are right of center, however I trust him for his objectivity). The US Navy had done testing on the virus and assessed that it was highly contagious. It was known early the level of danger with this virus. Politicizing and Conspiracy Theorizing it, has costed many lives as well as created even more "pre existing conditions, which will cost us dearly in the future.

Our hope is the same as it was with polio, a vaccine. It requires adequate testing, but we are not far from seeing it come into being.

The greatest problem we have, is misinformation and fatigue. Face it. We are ALL tired of this. Even in NJ which has had to deal with the throws of this virus very early, I have witnessed ER's who have let their protocol adherence slip, causing an outbreak and restaurants which are packed as though there was nothing to worry about.

No this is not a "new normal" The Spanish Flu and Polio crippled commerce and socializing for years, but were eventually conquered.

Patience...