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Thread: Guess who is paying for the wall. . . . .

  1. #1
    Freedom Fighter jeremyboycool's Avatar
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    Guess who is paying for the wall. . . . .

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/25/politi...rs/index.html\

    Trump confirmed his plans to build the wall with federal funds and then seek reimbursement from Mexico, an idea Mexico has rejected.
    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Stephen Hawking

  2. #2
    Senior Member fastchevy's Avatar
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    A possibility that I've heart Trump say is if we pay for it, Mexico will eventually pay for it through tariffs and other ways through trade of products coming into the US from Mexico.
    .

  3. #3
    Administrator Philip's Avatar
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    He would have to withdraw us from NAFTA to slap Mexico with a tariff.. I think to keep it permanently he'd need congressional approval as well. Ultimately, it is a two-edged sword, US consumers will have to pay more for imported goods as their price will increase accordingly to account for the tariffs.. On the flip side, theoretically more goods will be produced in the US if they become competitive enough.

    He caters to his constituents I suppose, but the line is very blurry who ultimately pays for it after the initial expense.. just a bunch of talking points on both sides.

  4. #4
    Freedom Fighter jeremyboycool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastchevy View Post
    A possibility that I've heart Trump say is if we pay for it, Mexico will eventually pay for it through tariffs and other ways through trade of products coming into the US from Mexico.

    The economic impact of tariffs is well known, since they have been used so often. What will happen is the burden of the tax will be shared by both the suppliers and the buyers. The burden of that tax will be passed from Mexico suppliers to US businesses, to US consumers. We still end up paying for the wall.

    Who Benefits?
    The benefits of tariffs are uneven. Because a tariff is a tax, the government will see increased revenue as imports enter the domestic market. Domestic industries also benefit from a reduction in competition, since import prices are artificially inflated. Unfortunately for consumers - both individual consumers and businesses - higher import prices mean higher prices for goods. If the price of steel is inflated due to tariffs, individual consumers pay more for products using steel, and businesses pay more for steel that they use to make goods. In short, tariffs and trade barriers tend to be pro-producer and anti-consumer.

    Read more: The Basics Of Tariffs And Trade Barriers | Investopedia http://www.investopedia.com/articles...#ixzz4WzeAYTPI
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    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Stephen Hawking

  5. #5
    resident Humboldt's Avatar
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    *sigh*
    The fact he got even a single vote is straight depressing.

  6. #6
    Maneater JawZ's Avatar
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    I don't think a wall addresses the root cause of the problem nor do I see how immigration policy can be expected to address it when it obviously hasn't. Our policy has delayed the problem. If you want to discover the root cause all one needs to do is ask the following question. Why do conditions in Mexico remain so poor that Mexicans feel they have to leave their homeland and who is responsible to fix it? I think the Mexican government along with some engagement from our State Department needs to own the problem and be held accountable to fix it. Is the Mexican government operating in their countrymen's best interests?

    ...formerly the omnipotent UOD

  7. #7
    Administrator Philip's Avatar
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    Those fundamental questions can be asked about any government.. is our government acting in our best interest ? What is happening to the shrinking middle class, upward mobility, etc.? And the answers are usually subjective.

    Still, we can't expect to fix foreign governments to our liking so their constituents feel content enough to stay on their side of the border imho.

  8. #8
    Maneater JawZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip View Post
    Those fundamental questions can be asked about any government.. is our government acting in our best interest ? What is happening to the shrinking middle class, upward mobility, etc.? And the answers are usually subjective.

    Still, we can't expect to fix foreign governments to our liking so their constituents feel content enough to stay on their side of the border imho.
    I don't agree. I think we can expect foreign governments to fix their own issues. But I also know that we have expected and allowed OUR government to overreach. That's the net effect of apathy. We got too comfortable and allowed our government to run amok. We also ask government to solve issues that should be tackled at the state or local level or simply by the people. But for that to happen, people need to be involved. Which leads me to a perfect segue...are the Mexican people involved in their own government? If they aren't...why? It seems that our engagement with Mexico is very limited. Isn't that a bit strange? They are, after all, a neighbor. We should be engaging through the State Department and if needed, via USAID.

    One thing is certain, the status quo is not sustainable nor is it working. At this point, we have to do something different. I don't see a wall as a fix. Its a band-aid. A true fix will be found within Mexico. It has to be solved from within. Who is willing to voice this expectation?

    ...formerly the omnipotent UOD

  9. #9
    Administrator Philip's Avatar
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    I agree the wall doesn't fix the problems, that issues have to be fixed within Mexico, and we should probably offer some assistance. I doubt the people there have enough power to do much, with one third of the country living in poverty, corruption problems, and the violent war on drug cartels.

    We have to keep in mind that it is much easier for them to cross the border, than to die for their country. I think it will remain so until their economy becomes sustainable, people below the poverty line are much more concerned with feeding their children, access to education and medication, rather than fixing their government. To put it in perspective, 33% of Mexicans (~38 million people) live with less than $5 a day. Of course this presents a big opportunity for growth and trade...

  10. #10
    Moderator David's Avatar
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    The wall is already mostly in place.

    As for xenophobia, unskilled and semiskilled labor that could be taken overseas, all ready has. America no longer has the stomach to watch people dressed in sack clothes, living in shacks, as migrant farm hands.. Yet, there are actually denizens of Appalacia who want the coal mining jobs back.

    The H1B Visas are more of a thorn, quite frankly.

    Hell_Yes

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  11. #11
    ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ downhill's Avatar
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    Looks like federal funding for education is going to take a hit. Endowments for the arts as well and the food stamp program. On top of that we're giving the military more money. We spend more than the next 12 countries combined with out even auditing the Pentagon..
    The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts, attitudes, and prejudices to be found only in the minds of men. For the record, prejudices can kill and suspicion can destroy and a thoughtless, frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all of its own for the children and the children yet unborn and the pity of it is that these things cannot be confined to the Twilight Zone.

  12. #12
    Administrator Philip's Avatar
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    Cutting social/educational programs, NPR money, etc. is wrong, I agree, there must be better ways to balance the budget.
    As far as military spending... We do spend a lot, however, it doesn't look as bad if you look at it as percentage of GDP (we spend ~3%, Russia spends 5%, for example). Even as percentage of GDP, we still spend a lot more than most developed countries.

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