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Thread: Who won the debate?

  1. #1
    Freedom Fighter jeremyboycool's Avatar
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    Who won the debate?

    I know they are already declaring Clinton the winner, but what do you think?

    Personally, I think they both were losers, and I struggled to take them as serious competitors for the President of the United States.

    Trump, surprisingly had a few good points, it a shame that is a 70 year old child. At this point, to me, it does not really matter much what Clinton looks like, as that man clearly is not fit to be president.
    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Stephen Hawking

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    Moderator YeOldeStonecat's Avatar
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    Our country lost...cuz one of them will win.

    IMO, Hitlery won..she was more specific.
    Trump...was typical Trump...just spewing his usual bumper sticker generic statements.
    The both lied (no surprise of course)...but he lied bit more.
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    SG Enthusiast cybotron r_9's Avatar
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    SG Enthusiast cybotron r_9's Avatar
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    Seriously though, Hillary just powered through

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    Administrator Philip's Avatar
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    Hillary was a bit more composed/prepared it seemed, with a few slippery politician overtones, but the difference wasn't nearly as wide as media tried to portray it imho. Trump doesn't seize to amaze me with his audacity to plug himself in the news spotlight daily, boast his "huge" "tremendous" achievements, at the debate he also kept advertising how he got the endorsement of admirals/generals, police, etc.

    Ultimately, the debate was filled with too much ego, interruptions, personal attacks and not enough policy for my taste.

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    Freedom Fighter jeremyboycool's Avatar
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    Hillary definitely made some slips that a practiced politician should not make, but I suppose debating Trump is probably very rattling. I don't really see the problem as the candidates themselves, but rather with a system that leaves us with such limited choices. There were better choices, but we are at the whim of who the two major parties choose to support, and it is too late to switch now.
    Last edited by jeremyboycool; 09-30-16 at 11:28 AM.
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    Freedom Fighter jeremyboycool's Avatar
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    Trump does not seem to be handling the aftermath of the debate very well. He is all over the news in Google, which he claims is a Google conspiracy to make him look bad. But he gives the media plenty of ammo and draws so much more attention to himself, that Google does not have to conspire against him. He makes an ass of himself all by himself. Every now and then I see Hillary jabbing at him, it makes her look a bit childish, but the man is so easy to provoke, so I don't know, maybe it is a good strategy when it comes to Trump.
    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Stephen Hawking

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    Moderator YeOldeStonecat's Avatar
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    Sometimes I wonder if the Clinton Foundation hired Trump a few years ago...to switch teams to the Repubs...and run for office. Knowing he would push out other Repub candidates....but then make a buffoon over himself once it was just him and Hillery.
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    SG Enthusiast cybotron r_9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremyboycool View Post
    Hillary definitely made some slips that a practiced politician should not make, but I suppose debating Trump is probably very rattling. I don't really see the problem as the candidates themselves, but rather with a system that leaves us with such limited choices. There were better choices, but we are at the whim of who the two major parties choose to support, and it is too late to switch now.
    The Republican party didn't support Trump, the people did.

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    SG Enthusiast cybotron r_9's Avatar
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    Hillary pushed his buttons and it worked, can you say


  11. #11
    Freedom Fighter jeremyboycool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cybotron r_9 View Post
    The Republican party didn't support Trump, the people did.
    The majority of Trump supporters are Republican.
    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Stephen Hawking

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    SG Enthusiast cybotron r_9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremyboycool View Post
    The majority of Trump supporters are Republican.
    That is probably true but the GOP neither wanted Trump nor gave him much support

  13. #13
    Freedom Fighter jeremyboycool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cybotron r_9 View Post
    That is probably true but the GOP neither wanted Trump nor gave him much support
    Well, that is just flat out not true, but whatever. I am not really sure what you consider the GOP, but he would not be the Republican nominee, without support from the Republican party.
    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Stephen Hawking

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    Moderator YeOldeStonecat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cybotron r_9 View Post
    That is probably true but the GOP neither wanted Trump nor gave him much support
    Very true. I'm historically Republican...but something was very odd with this election process, and I can't stand him (or her for that matter.and there have been some Democrats I've liked..I believe in an alternating government, keeps things rather middle of the road in the long haul) Trump isn't even traditionally Republican...hell he was a Democrat not long ago.

    He seems to be doing well based on "he's anti establishment"...people sick of "buy your way" government, where lobbyists can buy their way, are going the Trump way.
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  15. #15
    Freedom Fighter jeremyboycool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YeOldeStonecat View Post
    Very true. I'm historically Republican...but something was very odd with this election process, and I can't stand him (or her for that matter.and there have been some Democrats I've liked..I believe in an alternating government, keeps things rather middle of the road in the long haul) Trump isn't even traditionally Republican...hell he was a Democrat not long ago.

    He seems to be doing well based on "he's anti establishment"...people sick of "buy your way" government, where lobbyists can buy their way, are going the Trump way.
    "very odd with this election process"

    He is the the officially selected representative of the Republican party in this election. There is nothing fishy about it, as at the time he was the most rational choice. He has money and fame, two things that go a long ways in politics. The Republicans knew that Clinton was running, they knew that she already had money, name recognition, and supporters. So they needed someone of the same caliber, and there is nothing shady about the choice.

    The problem is that he has no experience as a politician, so he has no clue what he is doing. He knows how to be a reality TV personality, and that is what he is doing. If this was for a reality TV show, then how he is acting is exactly how he should act, because people love to watch stupid. The simple truth is that Trump has no experience here, so he is trying to compensate with his experience as a reality TV personality. That is not any grand conspiracy, and that is something we all knew from day one.

    "...hell he was a Democrat not long ago"

    He would not be the first person to switch alignment for political gains. Had he went with the Democrats, then he would have had to compete with Hillary for the Democratic nominee. It was a smarter move for him to go Republican.

    Americans are so paranoid with conspiracy theories, that politicians are able to use that paranoia to influence people. It is George Wallace politics, just listen to the candidates (especially Trump, but even Hillary a bit), listen to what they say, and it becomes very clear that they are trying to tap into that paranoia. The truth is probably a lot more dull than what the public fantasizes, for both of the candidates. It has become so easy to create mistrust in Americans, they think there is a conspiracy around every turn, waiting right there to get them.
    Last edited by jeremyboycool; 10-02-16 at 12:32 AM.
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    Moderator YeOldeStonecat's Avatar
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    It's quite obvious you're young. Ya need to live a few decades with your eyes open. I'm far from any conspiracy theory, nor is that a serious statement...read between the lines (another inexperience observation).

    re: "same caliber"...LOL..that right there is funny! Again..I hate Hillery....but she's a lifetime of 24x7x365 inner workings of politics. Trump is just partially silver spoon fed spoiled crybaby that further evolved his life on ever expanding credit (aka perma debt).

    This election year is one of the greatest examples of, if not THE greatest example of, "Vote for you you think will do the least damage". It's never been this bad of a choice in recent generations....and either way, America is going to pay the price. We'll see record numbers of people that don't like their parties candidate...and fail to show up at the booths. And I predict we'll see that more with conservatives...who realize Trump isn't presidential material. And Hillery will win.

    It's a sad year for America. Rest of the world is laughing at us over this predicament.
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  17. #17
    Freedom Fighter jeremyboycool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YeOldeStonecat View Post
    It's quite obvious you're young. Ya need to live a few decades with your eyes open. I'm far from any conspiracy theory, nor is that a serious statement...read between the lines (another inexperience observation).

    re: "same caliber"...LOL..that right there is funny! Again..I hate Hillery....but she's a lifetime of 24x7x365 inner workings of politics. Trump is just partially silver spoon fed spoiled crybaby that further evolved his life on ever expanding credit (aka perma debt).

    This election year is one of the greatest examples of, if not THE greatest example of, "Vote for you you think will do the least damage". It's never been this bad of a choice in recent generations....and either way, America is going to pay the price. We'll see record numbers of people that don't like their parties candidate...and fail to show up at the booths. And I predict we'll see that more with conservatives...who realize Trump isn't presidential material. And Hillery will win.

    It's a sad year for America. Rest of the world is laughing at us over this predicament.
    "It's quite obvious you're young. Ya need to live a few decades with your eyes open. [. . . .] (another inexperience observation).

    I am old enough to recognize rudeness. I am also old enough to know that argument is nonsense, and that you should do better then just declaring yourself smarter.

    "'same caliber'...LOL..that right there is funny!"

    When it comes to name recognition, fans and money, yes he is of the same caliber. Try reading in context next time.
    Last edited by jeremyboycool; 10-03-16 at 09:36 AM.
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  18. #18
    Moderator YeOldeStonecat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremyboycool View Post
    When it comes to name recognition, fans and money, yes he is of the same caliber. Try reading in context next time.
    There's absolutely no "same caliber" between the two. You don't just compare name recognition....hell Hitler or Genghis Khan or Christopher Columbus have name recognition.....has nothing to do with comparing qualities pertinent to a presidential election. Repeating my post above...Hillerys "name recognition" as far as politics are concerned...it's her entire life (not that I agree with what she's done). Trump...nothing, nada, zip.

    Fans? Trumps pissed off people most of his life, best claim to fame is dumbed down idiot TV reality fans...the same fans who watch other garbage such as the Kartrashians. Low IQ.

    Money? They're oodles apart. Clintons combined net worth around 50 mil, granted lots more gets hidden and funneled through their foundation to avoid taxing eyes..but 50 mil is a generous estimate. Trumps is more towards several billion. Granted...most of it "fake money on paper" based on loans and borrowing and investors....

    Absolutely in context.
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  19. #19
    Freedom Fighter jeremyboycool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YeOldeStonecat View Post
    There's absolutely no "same caliber" between the two. You don't just compare name recognition....hell Hitler or Genghis Khan or Christopher Columbus have name recognition.....has nothing to do with comparing qualities pertinent to a presidential election. Repeating my post above...Hillerys "name recognition" as far as politics are concerned...it's her entire life (not that I agree with what she's done). Trump...nothing, nada, zip.

    Fans? Trumps pissed off people most of his life, best claim to fame is dumbed down idiot TV reality fans...the same fans who watch other garbage such as the Kartrashians. Low IQ.

    Money? They're oodles apart. Clintons combined net worth around 50 mil, granted lots more gets hidden and funneled through their foundation to avoid taxing eyes..but 50 mil is a generous estimate. Trumps is more towards several billion. Granted...most of it "fake money on paper" based on loans and borrowing and investors....

    Absolutely in context.
    "You don't just compare name recognition [. . . .] has nothing to do with comparing qualities pertinent to a presidential election."

    I never said that was the end all be all of it, but if the goal is to get a candidate elected, then it is an important factor, and that has been proven by means greater than being 49 years of age. This is without a doubt one of the reasons Trump was chosen by the Republicans.

    In this article, we have focused on the effects of name recognition on electoral
    decision-making. With our first laboratory experiment, we have shown that subliminal
    presentations of a hypothetical candidate’s name have significant effects on vote choice,
    affect, and inferences about viability. These effects are reasonably large in magnitude and
    reflect an interconnected set of attitudes about a particular candidate. The results reflect
    Zajonc’s concept of “perceptual fluency,” whereby mere exposure induces liking, but they
    go beyond this concept, too, in showing that subjects make viability inferences based on
    their familiarity with the candidate – inferences that then produce greater affect and support
    for the candidate. In particular, we have shown that mere exposure enhances inferences
    26
    about the viability of a candidate, a finding that relates neatly with the literature on
    bandwagoning during political campaigns. In contrast to scholarship suggesting that name
    recognition does not directly influence candidate support, we find clear evidence of a causal
    link, which demonstrates that – in at least some conditions – name recognition can increase
    candidate support.
    https://www.princeton.edu/csdp/event...am04282011.pdf

    "Repeating my post above...Hillerys "name recognition" as far as politics are concerned..."

    I don't necessarily disagree, I was only pointing out the likely reasons the Republican party picked Trump. Now as far as political experience, clearly this is where Trump's name is a hindrance, and it is one of the main points of Hillary's campaign. I never argued otherwise and in fact I mentioned his lack of experience as one of his problems.

    We next considered the limits of name recognition, in particular assessing whether a
    more applicable cue would substitute for, and therefore eliminate the effects of, name
    recognition. In two supplementary studies, we have also shown that these mere recognition
    effects dissipate in the presence of a more politically relevant criterion: incumbent status.
    https://www.princeton.edu/csdp/event...am04282011.pdf

    I was speaking more in terms to why the Republicans picked Trump, and in relation to those three points. I am sorry if my text in that matter was not clear enough for you. In other aspects I agree that Trump is not the same "caliber" as Clinton, but really that is about as far as I am willing to squabble over a subjective interpretation of "caliber."

    "Fans? Trumps pissed off people most of his life, best claim to fame is dumbed down idiot TV reality fans...the same fans who watch other garbage such as the Kartrashians. Low IQ."

    Fans? Or can we call them voters?

    "Money? They're oodles apart. Clintons combined net worth around 50 mil, granted lots more gets hidden and funneled through their foundation to avoid taxing eyes..but 50 mil is a generous estimate. Trumps is more towards several billion. Granted...most of it "fake money on paper" based on loans and borrowing and investors....
    "
    Well in determining the value of his money on the campaign trail, they not only had to compare it to their opponents, but to other Republican candidates as well. They needed to ask themselves who has the money to run a campaign against Hillary. Also I would imagine that for the purposes of getting elected at a certain level there is a diminishing return on the impact of campaign funds.

    **Edit - This campaign here is an example of what happens when the parties are more worried about winning, than getting the right person for the job. Bernie Sanders was a better pick than Hillary, and for Trump well any of the other Republican candidates was a better pick than Trump. Who is best for the job was not the question they asked, they looked at the candidates and said who will get us the most votes.
    Last edited by jeremyboycool; 10-03-16 at 11:39 AM.
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  20. #20
    Freedom Fighter jeremyboycool's Avatar
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    I don't really blame either party for the outcome of this election, or even the candidates themselves. Instead I think this is simply one of the limits of a two party system. If we had more options, then the chances of a quality candidate becoming President would increase.
    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Stephen Hawking

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