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Thread: Occupy Wall Street

  1. #81
    TypicalWhitePerson JC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JawZ View Post
    Are we or are we not a representative democracy?
    No, we are a representative republic. Do you not agree that the rule of law is superior to the rule of man. I believe the founders warned us against "democracy".
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  2. #82
    SG Enthusiast cybotron r_9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JawZ View Post
    Are we or are we not a representative democracy?

    No, we are a representative republic, akin to a constitutional republic. A representative democracy lacks a written constitution for limiting the majority.

  3. #83
    Maneater JawZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnosteele52 View Post
    You know Jawz, you should be a politician, because you know everything and are never wrong...... at least you never admit when your wrong.

    In your own words "'ll stop right there. The US was established as a democracy." WRONG, We were established as a Republic, then you change tactics "Are we or are we not a representative democracy?", the question was not what we currently are, it was what we were established as and you were simply wrong.

    You always put words in people mouths, misquote them, change your story to fit your needs and NEVER admit fault..... your a politician.

    the word republic implies in our country...democracy. Just as in the old USSR...Union of Soviet Socialist Republics...republic means socialism. So without further ado, what exactly does Republic mean to YOU in the US????? the problem is that you guys throw the word Republic around to protect your screwball GOP tactics which have been failures since before Reagan. You guys have zero comprehension of a Republic within the framework of our Constitution.

    Like it or not...we WERE established as a democracy no matter how much the GOP wishes to differ to meet their own fvcked up agenda. It's now a trend that every time the people rise up and exercise their democratic rights, the GOP jumps up and says that there is no democracy...it's a republic!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL! But I'll be damned, the friggin Tea Party should loves exercising their rights as supporters of the Republic hehehe.

    So finally, we were established as a democracy and now we are a Corporatocracy. Don't like it, do something about it.

    ...formerly the omnipotent UOD

  4. #84
    R.I.P. Nov 2015 RaisinCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnosteele52 View Post
    RaisinCain, since it's very obvious you are a staunch Democrat and strong Obama supporter, name anything he has done since he has been in office that has benefited this country and the people in it?

    I'm not so anti Democrat, Clinton wasn't a bad President, I'm just VERY anti Obama, he has run this country into the ground and done his best to push his socialistic policies on us.
    Well he lifted Bush restrictions on embryonic stem cell research for one. Which is going to be beneficial to everyone. I'm not a Democrat or anything else for that matter. I can't stand Big Government but I do believe giving credit where credit is due.

  5. #85
    Dr Tweak mnosteele52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JawZ View Post
    the word republic implies in our country...democracy. Just as in the old USSR...Union of Soviet Socialist Republics...republic means socialism. So without further ado, what exactly does Republic mean to YOU in the US????? the problem is that you guys throw the word Republic around to protect your screwball GOP tactics which have been failures since before Reagan. You guys have zero comprehension of a Republic within the framework of our Constitution.

    Like it or not...we WERE established as a democracy no matter how much the GOP wishes to differ to meet their own fvcked up agenda. It's now a trend that every time the people rise up and exercise their democratic rights, the GOP jumps up and says that there is no democracy...it's a republic!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL! But I'll be damned, the friggin Tea Party should loves exercising their rights as supporters of the Republic hehehe.

    So finally, we were established as a democracy and now we are a Corporatocracy. Don't like it, do something about it.
    See here you go again, it's NOT what it MEANS to me or you, there is a definition of what a Republic and Democracy are, since you don't know exactly what the definitions are:

    Democracy:
    A government of the masses.
    Authority derived through mass meeting or any other form of "direct" expression.
    Results in mobocracy.
    Attitude toward property is comunistic-negating property rights.
    Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate. whether it be based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences.
    Results in demagogism license, agitation, discontent, anarchy.
    Democracy is the "direct" rule of the people and has been repeatedly tried without success.
    A certain Professor Alexander Fraser Tytler, nearly two centuries ago, had this to say about Democracy: " A Democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of Government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largess out of public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that Democracy always collapses over a loose fiscal policy, always to be followed by a Dictatorship."
    A democracy is majority rule and is destructive of liberty because there is no law to prevent the majority from trampling on individual rights. Whatever the majority says goes! A lynch mob is an example of pure democracy in action. There is only one dissenting vote, and that is cast by the person at the end of the rope.

    Republic:
    Authority is derived through the election by the people of public officials best fitted to represent them.
    Attitude toward property is respect for laws and individual rights, and a sensible economic procedure.
    Attitude toward law is the administration of justice in accord with fixed principles and established evidence, with a strict regard to consequences.
    A greater number of citizens and extent of territory may be brought within its compass.
    Avoids the dangerous extreme of either tyranny or mobocracy. Results in statesmanship, liberty, reason, justice, contentment, and progress.
    Is the "standard form" of government throughout the world.
    A republic is a form of government under a constitution which provides for the election of:
    an executive and
    a legislative body, who working together in a representative capacity, have all the power of appointment, all power of legislation all power to raise revenue and appropriate expenditures, and are required to create
    a judiciary to pass upon the justice and legality of their governmental acts and to recognize
    certain inherent individual rights.

    From Democracy versus Republic

    From those definitions I would definitely say we were (and still should be) a Republic.

    Also, here is a video for you to better understand
    Last edited by mnosteele52; 10-09-11 at 01:40 PM.

  6. #86
    Dr Tweak mnosteele52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisinCain View Post
    Well he lifted Bush restrictions on embryonic stem cell research for one. Which is going to be beneficial to everyone. I'm not a Democrat or anything else for that matter. I can't stand Big Government but I do believe giving credit where credit is due.
    Wow, that's it, you voted for and support a guy that has run this country for 4 years and that is all that you can come up with? I will agree that is a good thing, I don't believe with cloning anyone or thing, but embryonic stem cell research does have it's place and definite benefits.

  7. #87
    R.I.P. Nov 2015 RaisinCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnosteele52 View Post
    Wow, that's it, you voted for and support a guy that has run this country for 4 years and that is all that you can come up with? I will agree that is a good thing, I don't believe with cloning anyone or thing, but embryonic stem cell research does have it's place and definite benefits.
    I don't vote and quit trying to portray me as someone that I am not- you don't know me. Also, I can come up with a whole lot more than that but I am not going to do your homework for you and spend my time listing everything that he has done. Do your own research.
    Last edited by RaisinCain; 10-09-11 at 02:17 PM.

  8. #88
    SG DC Team Member Paft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisinCain View Post
    I don't vote
    Then you have no valid voice. If you don't vote, you have no right to complain - you couldn't be bothered to try to change the situation, after all.

  9. #89
    SG DC Team Member Paft's Avatar
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    Edit: Double post.

  10. #90
    R.I.P. Nov 2015 RaisinCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paft View Post
    Then you have no valid voice. If you don't vote, you have no right to complain - you couldn't be bothered to try to change the situation, after all.
    If you really think that you are changing the situation your are seriously mislead or delusional. I pay taxes- THAT is what gives me the right to express my thoughts and opinions. Weather or not I vote is a personal opinion and my voice is not weakened.

  11. #91
    NYC Newbie Slayer Prey521's Avatar
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    If these cult like, chanting nutjobs are the "99%", then count me the hell out. Talk about creepy.

    Have your feelings been hurt by a random act of E-Thuggery? If so, call 1-800-Waaaaahmbulance, we're here 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week, to take your call, you could be due a large monetary settlement, don't delay, call now.

    "Please be careful prior to entering the world wide web, the internet is serious business"


  12. #92

  13. #93
    Maneater JawZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnosteele52 View Post
    See here you go again, it's NOT what it MEANS to me or you, there is a definition of what a Republic and Democracy are, since you don't know exactly what the definitions are:

    Democracy:
    A government of the masses.
    Authority derived through mass meeting or any other form of "direct" expression.
    Results in mobocracy.
    Attitude toward property is comunistic-negating property rights.
    Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate. whether it be based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences.
    Results in demagogism license, agitation, discontent, anarchy.
    Democracy is the "direct" rule of the people and has been repeatedly tried without success.
    A certain Professor Alexander Fraser Tytler, nearly two centuries ago, had this to say about Democracy: " A Democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of Government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largess out of public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that Democracy always collapses over a loose fiscal policy, always to be followed by a Dictatorship."
    A democracy is majority rule and is destructive of liberty because there is no law to prevent the majority from trampling on individual rights. Whatever the majority says goes! A lynch mob is an example of pure democracy in action. There is only one dissenting vote, and that is cast by the person at the end of the rope.

    Republic:
    Authority is derived through the election by the people of public officials best fitted to represent them.
    Attitude toward property is respect for laws and individual rights, and a sensible economic procedure.
    Attitude toward law is the administration of justice in accord with fixed principles and established evidence, with a strict regard to consequences.
    A greater number of citizens and extent of territory may be brought within its compass.
    Avoids the dangerous extreme of either tyranny or mobocracy. Results in statesmanship, liberty, reason, justice, contentment, and progress.
    Is the "standard form" of government throughout the world.
    A republic is a form of government under a constitution which provides for the election of:
    an executive and
    a legislative body, who working together in a representative capacity, have all the power of appointment, all power of legislation all power to raise revenue and appropriate expenditures, and are required to create
    a judiciary to pass upon the justice and legality of their governmental acts and to recognize
    certain inherent individual rights.

    From Democracy versus Republic

    From those definitions I would definitely say we were (and still should be) a Republic.

    Also, here is a video for you to better understand


    LOL...those are the poorest and loosest defintions I've ever seen. First there are two major differences here. In government, there is type and form so you need to start there. What's even more funny is that the GOP rails against, and even caters to the extremes in order to rail against it without having even the slightest idea about type and form. The GOP wants it's own minority rule over the majority's will.


    so let's get back to the key question here...

    Who initiated TARP and why when it went against the majority will of the people? the answer is President Bush.

    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...arted-bailouts

    Lets also mention that Bush turned a record surplus into a record deficit between 2001-2005 with the farce of a war in Iraq. What's interesting and what I'm HOPING you'll see is that BOTH parties are morally and ethically corrupt and devoid of any great ideas. What we need is to gut the government and start fresh or have another civil war.


    The bottom line for me is this...I'm actually on your side and don't wish to argue. I voted for Obama because I couldn't allow Palin to be in any position of power. Obama has continued failed policies of the Bush admin and for that alone, he needs to go. the current field of GOP candidates sucks. I want the GOP to rediscover it's core values and I believe those core values were best espoused by Barry Goldwater...NOT Ronald Reagan. Specifically for 2012, I want an opt out option for Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid. I want all my money back. And I want all new enrollments in either to stop by 2020. I want total campaign finance reform. And I want all corporate affairs to be governed by one simple litmus test...it's the same test we all use in the medical community...do no harm. I have nothing against big business, just unethical business practices. Our government footprint is way too big and is unsustainable. I could go on and on and on.

    ...formerly the omnipotent UOD

  14. #94
    R.I.P. Nov 2015 RaisinCain's Avatar
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    ^ This.

  15. #95
    SG DC Team Member Paft's Avatar
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    Awesome. Occupy Wall Street in San Diego reveals their true agenda. I was walking downtown to find out what all this protesting was really about, straight from the horse's mouth so to speak, and upon querying a few of the protesters, I found myself terrified. Here's a few bullet points:

    * Complete criminalization of guns - all gun owners should be jailed and put to death as violent criminals.
    * A maximum yearly income where the rest of the money you make is taken by the government.
    * Taxation that increases proportional to the income you earn (10K = 10%, 20K = 15%, ..., 250K+ = 50%).
    * Decriminalization of illegal drugs.
    * Banning private health care altogether and forcing everyone on a government system.
    * Banning corporations and forcing any chain larger than X stores (I heard 3, 5, 10 as common numbers) to split off and become single owner stores.
    * Forcing all businesses to turn all profits over to the government.
    * Banning all campaign contributions from any non-private individual, to include people who work in the public sector (military, teachers, police, etc).

    And you all are trying to tell me that these OWS idiots are sane and right? In what world is this sane? In what world is this NOT an attack on Capitalism, and an attack on people who are successful? These demands are like something from a left-wing paradise, not from the United States or anything in our history.

  16. #96
    Moderator Roody's Avatar
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    FWIW I appreciate you guys keeping this discussion civil.

  17. #97
    A+, Security+, Mobility+ Shinobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    FWIW I appreciate you guys keeping this discussion civil.
    I appreciate that this thread is not locked out. I am reading this thread, and I am learning about the protest.

    Please correct me if I am wrong...

    The protest is about a lot of individual issues that people have, however... the main issue that is being resounded.. is that corporations have a strangle hold on politicians and the government, and the people are suffering because of that. Be it, jobs, foreclosures ECT.

    Also, it seems that the group "anonymous", is a major player in all of this.

    Am I right on that?
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  18. #98
    Dr Tweak mnosteele52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JawZ View Post
    LOL...those are the poorest and loosest defintions I've ever seen. First there are two major differences here. In government, there is type and form so you need to start there. What's even more funny is that the GOP rails against, and even caters to the extremes in order to rail against it without having even the slightest idea about type and form. The GOP wants it's own minority rule over the majority's will.


    so let's get back to the key question here...

    Who initiated TARP and why when it went against the majority will of the people? the answer is President Bush.

    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...arted-bailouts

    Lets also mention that Bush turned a record surplus into a record deficit between 2001-2005 with the farce of a war in Iraq. What's interesting and what I'm HOPING you'll see is that BOTH parties are morally and ethically corrupt and devoid of any great ideas. What we need is to gut the government and start fresh or have another civil war.


    The bottom line for me is this...I'm actually on your side and don't wish to argue. I voted for Obama because I couldn't allow Palin to be in any position of power. Obama has continued failed policies of the Bush admin and for that alone, he needs to go. the current field of GOP candidates sucks. I want the GOP to rediscover it's core values and I believe those core values were best espoused by Barry Goldwater...NOT Ronald Reagan. Specifically for 2012, I want an opt out option for Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid. I want all my money back. And I want all new enrollments in either to stop by 2020. I want total campaign finance reform. And I want all corporate affairs to be governed by one simple litmus test...it's the same test we all use in the medical community...do no harm. I have nothing against big business, just unethical business practices. Our government footprint is way too big and is unsustainable. I could go on and on and on.
    OK once again you have completely lost me. When did the key question EVER become about who initiated TARP??????? The key question is that you said we were founded as a Democracy when we were not, we were founded as a Republic and you won't admit your wrong. Once again you try and change the subject and start going on a rant about Bush...... where did that even come from?

    To be honest we are both way off topic here, the actual topic is about "Occupy Wall Street".

    But to get back to the ACTUAL question at hand..... were we founded as a Democracy or a Republic, it's Republic PERIOD. Here are the actual definitions from Webster so don't dispute it saying it's incorrect.


    Definition of DEMOCRACY
    1 a : government by the people; especially : rule of the majority
    b : a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercise by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections
    2 : a political unit that has a democratic government
    3 capitalized : the principles and policies of the Democratic party in the United States <from emancipation Republicanism to New Deal Democracy — C. M. Roberts>
    4 : the common people especially when constituting the source of political authority
    5 : the absence of hereditary or arbitrary class distinctions or privileges

    Definition of REPUBLIC
    1 a (1) : a government having a chief of state who is not a monarch and who in modern times is usually a president (2) : a political unit (as a nation) having such a form of government
    b (1) : a government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law (2) : a political unit (as a nation) having such a form of government
    c : a usually specified republican government of a political unit <the French Fourth Republic>
    2 : a body of persons freely engaged in a specified activity <the republic of letters>
    3 : a constituent political and territorial unit of the former nations of Czechoslovakia, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, or Yugoslavia

  19. #99
    Dr Tweak mnosteele52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paft View Post
    Awesome. Occupy Wall Street in San Diego reveals their true agenda. I was walking downtown to find out what all this protesting was really about, straight from the horse's mouth so to speak, and upon querying a few of the protesters, I found myself terrified. Here's a few bullet points:

    * Complete criminalization of guns - all gun owners should be jailed and put to death as violent criminals.
    * A maximum yearly income where the rest of the money you make is taken by the government.
    * Taxation that increases proportional to the income you earn (10K = 10%, 20K = 15%, ..., 250K+ = 50%).
    * Decriminalization of illegal drugs.
    * Banning private health care altogether and forcing everyone on a government system.
    * Banning corporations and forcing any chain larger than X stores (I heard 3, 5, 10 as common numbers) to split off and become single owner stores.
    * Forcing all businesses to turn all profits over to the government.
    * Banning all campaign contributions from any non-private individual, to include people who work in the public sector (military, teachers, police, etc).

    And you all are trying to tell me that these OWS idiots are sane and right? In what world is this sane? In what world is this NOT an attack on Capitalism, and an attack on people who are successful? These demands are like something from a left-wing paradise, not from the United States or anything in our history.
    Scary isn't it? What makes you posting this better than anything is that you asked the questions from random people yourself, so nobody can't say the media picked out some loons and twisted their answers. What these people really want is Socialism.

  20. #100
    Assistant Admin Ken's Avatar
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    Let me give a simple definition- A Democracy is ruled by the majority, a Republic is ruled by laws... See the difference...

    Be happy that our fore fathers had the sense to know that just because a majority believes something, it does not make it true or correct… In order for there to be an average intelligence, half the people must be below average…
    With all of the access to education, we still seem to be regressing into a bunch of thoughtless fools that believe what we want, damn the facts… Quick to jump to a conclusion that sounds good and never truly understand the issues, much less actually look for the facts…
    Let’s continue to pat ourselves on the back and proclaim what great people we are, what a great country we are!

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