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Thread: PCI-E SSD drives

  1. #1
    Assistant Admin Ken's Avatar
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    PCI-E SSD drives

    Anyone have any experience with them? RAID on the quads? Any input is welcome.

  2. #2
    Tortoises R0cks :D Rivas's Avatar
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    out of my price range but you might find this interesting to read
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    Forum Techie terrancelam's Avatar
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    *Drools*......
    just curious, whats the wear-level like on SSD drives now adays? anywhere near similar to plated hds? Do you think they'd last for about 3-4 years?
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  4. #4
    Forum Techie terrancelam's Avatar
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    p.s. ken, what are you looking to use the PCI-E SSDs for? Server setup?
    Intel Core 2 Duo Q8300 2.55Ghz (1333mhz)
    Asus P5N-D
    OCZ Platinum 8gb (2x2gb) PC8000 1000mhz 5-5-5-18
    EVGA 460GTX 1gb PCIE 2.0
    Western Digital Black 640gb x 2 Raid 0
    Coolermaster 1000W Modular PSU
    Antec NSK4480B
    Windows 7 Professional 64-bit

    ----------------------------------------------------------
    HP TC5700 (Thin Client) 1ghz, 512mb 80gb 1x1000mb NIC 1x100mb NIC running PFSense 1.22
    Linksys WRT-150 running DD-WRT V.24 (Access Point)

    "SG Techies rule!" - Sig Buddies with Amro

  5. #5
    Second Most EVIL YARDofSTUF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrancelam View Post
    *Drools*......
    just curious, whats the wear-level like on SSD drives now adays? anywhere near similar to plated hds? Do you think they'd last for about 3-4 years?
    Seems some are now hitting the 4-5 year range.

  6. #6
    Moderator YeOldeStonecat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrancelam View Post
    *Drools*......
    just curious, whats the wear-level like on SSD drives now adays? anywhere near similar to plated hds? Do you think they'd last for about 3-4 years?
    They're well past the life expectancy that we keep normal drives
    Read about 3/4 down this page
    http://www.overclockers.com/hdd-vs-ssd/

    "Now that you have an understanding of how it works, move onto what people should really know about the drive. The theoretical true life of the drive if looking at 80GB drive is 80TB worth of data to be written to it. So let say you have 40GB of data on the drive that does not change, no deletes, just constant data on the drive and only have the 40GB of space. Now on an average day, weather youíre gaming doing work, or just surfing the web how much data do you really think youíre writing to your hard drive? Probably depending on how much you use it. Two and a half to five GB would be on the high-end average per day including software installs on the PC. Still that might be an excessive number but weíll run with five GB per day, which is written and deleted (just to make sure we have constant 40GB free). So with wear leveling of the drive it will take eight days before it will re-write on top of that first cell of the drive. So eight days and you just ate one cycle of that 10,000. Multiply that over and thatís 80,000 Days or 219 Years. Now you say you use more than that, how about 20GB per day? Two days to fill up the cells, 20,000 days or ~58 years.

    As you can see unless youíre doing some hefty writes on this drive it will last well past what itís worth. Even if you go to the extreme of saying that 40Gigs writing to constantly at a max of 75MB/sec. 4.5GB/min or 270GB/hour would last a whopping ~6.2 Days at that rate. Idealistically though, if you have 40TB of data writing to the drive youíll have a lot more storage and some insane amount of data going through the system that is not of a home user."
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    Assistant Admin Ken's Avatar
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    Hey terrancelam!

    Yes, I am planning on doing a server and a back up server with them, however before I do that I am going to make 1 for me and another high end work station to get my feet wet...

    I am thinking about changing all workstations to a minimum 3 SATA SSD system, 1 for OS, 1 for page file and 1 for data, with the data being backed up on a drive on the BU Server. (I have work station OS clones stored on a designated usb external drive)

    The BU server has an OS with RAID, another drive for workstation data back up and another drive for the main server back up...

    Computers like mine, the servers and a few other high end stations, I RAID the OS, so probably will switch them to the PCI-E SSD drives. As soon as I get a chance, I need to put thought into how I will utilize my OS, page file and data on them. IOW how many cards will give me the best results, if you follow...

  8. #8
    Moderator YeOldeStonecat's Avatar
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    By backup server, you mean redundant physical server, or a server/nas to store backups?
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    Second Most EVIL YARDofSTUF's Avatar
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    ^(EDIT: this up arrow is to post #6 ) You also have to take into consideration the quality of the wear leveling algorithm, its write amplification factor, and how they come to their 1-5 million MTBF rating.

    Some companies are saying their drives get 3-5 times more cycles than otheres, yet they use the same chips. Intel has also said that there are many drives out there whose wear leveling factors vary greatly and claim that Intel SSDs are 3 times more efficient, probably hype, but I would expect them to be able to back soem of that up.

    I wouldn't be surprised if those 219 and 58 years ended up being more like 12 and 3 years.

    But its not like they're gonna die over night and they should last the average user, even highly active average user, around 5 years in general. As the erasure blocks get smaller it will help improve the life and wear leveling as well.

    Erasure block size might be an important factor for setting them up in raid. Not sure if a 32 or 64k stripe would be good with a drive using a 128k erasure block. Wonder if matching or maybe doubling it would be best. Haven't really looked into SSD raid that much.

  10. #10
    Assistant Admin Ken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YeOldeStonecat View Post
    By backup server, you mean redundant physical server, or a server/nas to store backups?
    Another physical server. I have a total of 3 servers; main server, BU server and the video server which has the cameras...

    Yardy, please let me know what you find out...

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    Second Most EVIL YARDofSTUF's Avatar
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    Senior Member Easto's Avatar
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    How can you tell when a SSD is going bad? Is there any kind of warning or is it... here one day, gone tomorrow?

  13. #13
    Tortoises R0cks :D Rivas's Avatar
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    over here is the REVODRIVE, more affordable. couldnt find the newer version which is cheaper and the transfer rates are up to 540MB/s read and up to 480MB/s write speeds (NO RAID) and it's the first bootable consumer PCI-E SSD.

    They didn't write the final verdict, 8/10.

    Plus:
    Phenomenal queue-depth performance and random read/writes;bootable;trumps single Sandforce in many benchmarks.

    Minus:
    No trim, drive slows down after heavy use.
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  14. #14
    Moderator YeOldeStonecat's Avatar
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    The OCZ Vertex series has show that they licked the decline in performance after heavy use issue...she holds steady in benchmarks time after time in random writing tests. The Vertex simply runs circles around WD Raptor drives.
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  15. #15
    Assistant Admin Ken's Avatar
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    So, is the consensus that the newest generation SATA SSD's are up to par, however the PCIe SSD's need a bit more time?

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    Second Most EVIL YARDofSTUF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken View Post
    So, is the consensus that the newest generation SATA SSD's are up to par, however the PCIe SSD's need a bit more time?
    I would think the newest of both are up to par, I would simply look for fairly well known brands, smallest erasure block size, and then the hunt for finding the right raid card if you go SATA, I assume you can't raid the PCI-E ones?

  17. #17
    Moderator YeOldeStonecat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken View Post
    So, is the consensus that the newest generation SATA SSD's are up to par, however the PCIe SSD's need a bit more time?
    It's more a matter of cost, the PCIe products are fitting more into server environments, as many home users concerned with performance are also gameres hence they don't have spare PCIe slots. PCIe SSD cards smoke SATA SSD due to the bus speeds, but they're still generally wicked expensive.

    Except for some newer products like the OCZ RevoDrive....quite affordable. Although it comes at a cost in performance, more affordable means cheaper components aka the Silicon Image raid controller, which is a bit fakeraid software and cpu intensive, even Intels fakeraid controllers run circles around it. Still...the end product smokes spindle drives.
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  18. #18
    resident plumber Mark's Avatar
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    Ken, here are some benchmarks of a revodrive over at [H] forum........

    http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1549669

  19. #19
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    Using an SSD is like the first time you used a broadband connection after years of dial-up. You said, "I'm never going back..."

    I now have a 40 GB Corsair Force series as the boot drive in my ThinkPad and a 160 GB Intel G2 via the Ultrabay adapter for my data. I'll never go back to mechanical drives.

  20. #20
    resident plumber Mark's Avatar
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    i hear ya on that Burke, i am just waiting for the price per GB to come down some more until i jump to SSD.

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