Results 1 to 20 of 35

Thread: Re: Fanboi's lament - falling out of love with the iPad

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Jeff Liebermann
    Guest

    Re: Fanboi's lament - falling out of love with the iPad

    On Mon, 31 May 2010 00:12:44 -0700, Michelle Steiner
    <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

    >In article <300520102348468822%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
    > nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
    >
    >> i remember people asking me how many columns the original mac screen
    >> had. i said there were no columns, the number of characters per line
    >> varied because almost all fonts were proportional. it all depends what
    >> letters and fonts were used, and what sizes.

    >
    >Yup, and trying to sell Macs to people who had been told by "experts" that
    >they shouldn't buy any computer that didn't have at least an 80-column
    >display was just that more difficult. I literally had to let people count
    >the characters across the screen.


    Yep, but that was when PC's had 12" or 14" screens, and the Mac Plus
    had a 9" screen. It was difficult to see 80 columns on such a small
    screen. There was also good business reasons for wanting 80x24
    (actually 80x25 if you included the status line). Many users were
    still logging into remote computers, mainframes, and text based data
    services, all of which operated in text mode.

    >> if it wasn't 80x24 or 132x24 of a fixed size amber or green letters, it
    >> was a toy and they weren't interested.


    Well, it was. There were terminal emulators (Versaterm) that did a
    good job of dealing with text based terminal emulation, but no matter
    how hard they tried, rendering of the characters on the Mac
    Plus/SE/Classic display was ugly. The 3270 and 5250 mainframe
    emulation was even worse. At the time, if you wanted a "business
    machine", it had to be character based.

    Apple also didn't seem to consider this a problem. At the time, they
    were trying to create some level of product differentiation, which set
    them apart from the rest of the market. If the Mac could do the same
    things as a commodity PC, why would anyone want to buy a Mac at twice
    the price? Apple considered the options and decided to emphasize the
    graphics capabilities of the Mac, and let the business application
    kinda flounder. Occasionally, there was a diversion into business
    apps, such as A/UX and various servers, but basically it was superior
    graphics that distinguished the Mac from the rest of the horde.

    >Oh yeah, they insisted on amber (first choice) or green (reluctant second
    >choice).


    Yep. Computer users are VERY conservative and difficult to change. At
    the time, there were 3 basic types of word processors. The mouse
    driven variety, as exemplified by MacWrite, the function key driven
    variety, as in WordPerfect, and the control-key flavor, as found in
    Wordstar. I found that I could move a customer from one word
    processor to another as long as I stayed within the interface that
    they were familiar with using. However, moving from a keyboard
    intensive word processor, to a mouse driven flavor, was almost
    impossible.

    Incidentally, I once found a surplus 9" CRT that was the same size as
    the one in a Mac SE. Since I had a Mac SE with a broken tube (I
    dropped it with the case off), I decided to try this CRT. When it was
    finally running, it lit up green. Oops. So, I spent some time
    twiddling with the CRT alignment magnets, cleaned it up, and presented
    it to the owner. He liked it because he claimed the green background
    was less "harsh" than the white background.

    Speaking of conservative, I still use vi to edit my code. I still
    can't debug well on the screen. I still print my programs and mark
    the mistakes with a felt tip pen. I still use a blue background with
    white letters for terminal emulation (IBM standard). It also took my
    quite a bit of snarling on my assorted PDA's to stop using a pen, and
    learn to use the iPod Touch style of finger poking. Old habits die
    hard.

    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

  2. #2
    nospam
    Guest

    Re: Fanboi's lament - falling out of love with the iPad

    In article <2iq706dj0eehaq7d3jaq9o5le5us6almrd@4ax.com>, Jeff
    Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

    > Yep. Computer users are VERY conservative and difficult to change. At
    > the time, there were 3 basic types of word processors. The mouse
    > driven variety, as exemplified by MacWrite, the function key driven
    > variety, as in WordPerfect, and the control-key flavor, as found in
    > Wordstar. I found that I could move a customer from one word
    > processor to another as long as I stayed within the interface that
    > they were familiar with using. However, moving from a keyboard
    > intensive word processor, to a mouse driven flavor, was almost
    > impossible.


    things never change. people have problems understanding the transition
    from mouse/keyboard interfaces on a mac or pc to touch based interfaces
    on an ipad.

    mobile devices *will* be the future, whether it's an ipad or something
    else.

  3. #3
    Michelle Steiner
    Guest

    Re: Fanboi's lament - falling out of love with the iPad

    In article <2iq706dj0eehaq7d3jaq9o5le5us6almrd@4ax.com>,
    Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

    > >Yup, and trying to sell Macs to people who had been told by "experts"
    > >that they shouldn't buy any computer that didn't have at least an
    > >80-column display was just that more difficult. I literally had to let
    > >people count the characters across the screen.

    >
    > Yep, but that was when PC's had 12" or 14" screens, and the Mac Plus had
    > a 9" screen. It was difficult to see 80 columns on such a small screen.
    > There was also good business reasons for wanting 80x24 (actually 80x25
    > if you included the status line). Many users were still logging into
    > remote computers, mainframes, and text based data services, all of which
    > operated in text mode.


    Not the users I was selling to in a retail storefront.

    > >> if it wasn't 80x24 or 132x24 of a fixed size amber or green letters,
    > >> it was a toy and they weren't interested.

    >
    > Well, it was. There were terminal emulators (Versaterm) that did a good
    > job of dealing with text based terminal emulation, but no matter how
    > hard they tried, rendering of the characters on the Mac Plus/SE/Classic
    > display was ugly. The 3270 and 5250 mainframe emulation was even worse.
    > At the time, if you wanted a "business machine", it had to be character
    > based.
    >
    > Apple also didn't seem to consider this a problem.


    That's because that wasn't Apple's target market for the Macintosh.

    > >Oh yeah, they insisted on amber (first choice) or green (reluctant
    > >second choice).

    >
    > Yep. Computer users are VERY conservative and difficult to change.


    Most of them were first-time buyers who had been told what to look for by
    self-proclaimed "experts" or by computer magazines that published those
    criteria before the Mac was introduced.

    > At the time, there were 3 basic types of word processors. The mouse
    > driven variety, as exemplified by MacWrite, the function key driven
    > variety, as in WordPerfect, and the control-key flavor, as found in
    > Wordstar.


    And very few people know about the mouse to begin with. We had a display
    that introduced the Mac; I can't tell you how many people picked up the
    mouse, turned it over, and tried to use it as a trackball, even though the
    monitor showed them how to use a mouse.

    --
    Check out the Hot Cocoa Party
    <http://www.hotcocoaparty.info>

  4. #4
    nospam
    Guest

    Re: Fanboi's lament - falling out of love with the iPad

    In article <michelle-D47B08.11394531052010@news.eternal-september.org>,
    Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

    > And very few people know about the mouse to begin with. We had a display
    > that introduced the Mac; I can't tell you how many people picked up the
    > mouse, turned it over, and tried to use it as a trackball, even though the
    > monitor showed them how to use a mouse.


    there were a bunch of studies where first time users held the mouse
    with the cord coming out the back, by their wrist. it makes sense
    keeping the cord less visible and out of the way, but it didn't work
    very well.

  5. #5
    Thomas R. Kettler
    Guest

    Re: Fanboi's lament - falling out of love with the iPad

    In article <michelle-D47B08.11394531052010@news.eternal-september.org>,
    Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

    > And very few people know about the mouse to begin with. We had a display
    > that introduced the Mac; I can't tell you how many people picked up the
    > mouse, turned it over, and tried to use it as a trackball, even though the
    > monitor showed them how to use a mouse.


    Did you see anyone try to use it as a foot treadle? I remember reading
    that one but always wondered if it was just an urban myth.
    --
    Remove blown from email address to reply.

  6. #6
    Michelle Steiner
    Guest

    Re: Fanboi's lament - falling out of love with the iPad

    In article
    <tkettler-337192.16380531052010@reserved-multicast-range-not-delegated.exam
    ple.com>,
    "Thomas R. Kettler" <tkettler@blownfuse.net> wrote:

    > > And very few people know about the mouse to begin with. We had a
    > > display that introduced the Mac; I can't tell you how many people
    > > picked up the mouse, turned it over, and tried to use it as a
    > > trackball, even though the monitor showed them how to use a mouse.

    >
    > Did you see anyone try to use it as a foot treadle?


    Nope; the cable wasn't long enough to reach the floor.

    --
    Check out the Hot Cocoa Party
    <http://www.hotcocoaparty.info>

  7. #7
    Jeff Liebermann
    Guest

    Re: Fanboi's lament - falling out of love with the iPad

    On Mon, 31 May 2010 16:38:06 -0400, "Thomas R. Kettler"
    <tkettler@blownfuse.net> wrote:

    >In article <michelle-D47B08.11394531052010@news.eternal-september.org>,
    > Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
    >
    >> And very few people know about the mouse to begin with. We had a display
    >> that introduced the Mac; I can't tell you how many people picked up the
    >> mouse, turned it over, and tried to use it as a trackball, even though the
    >> monitor showed them how to use a mouse.


    >Did you see anyone try to use it as a foot treadle? I remember reading
    >that one but always wondered if it was just an urban myth.


    None of my customers did that, but some were tempted due to alleged
    carpal tunnel syndrome and hand-eye coordination difficulties. The
    ones that failed to use a mouse efficiently were the same ones that
    had to look at their hands in order to type and in order to use a
    mouse. It's not like this is unusual. Try going down a flight of
    stairs with your eyes closed or NOT looking at your feet, for a
    personalized example.

    <http://www.footmouse.com>
    <http://www.bilila.com/foot_mouse_slipper_mouse>

    I was never plagued by first time computer users. I would usually
    pickup customers that had done battle with their machines for a while,
    run into problems, and got nowhere with their dealer. As always there
    were horror stories, nonsense, and idiocy:
    <http://www.LearnByDestroying.com/nooze/support.txt>
    This from 1982 to about 1994. Lots of fond memories of nightmares
    long past.

    Incidentally, my favorite pointing device is a small lawn bowling ball
    size (4.5" dia) trackball, as used by the military, FAA radar, and
    Atari coin-op games. Almost infinite resolution and plenty of inertia
    to spin the ball in the general direction, and then grab it when it's
    close.

    I also have several Prohance PowerMouse 100 conglomerations of a
    keyboard and mouse.
    <http://www.atarimagazines.com/compute/issue113/p08_reviews6_BUILDING_A_BETTER_MOUSE.php>
    If you think 3 buttons is a bit much, try orchestrating 40 buttons.
    (The bad news is that this mouse can't be used with anything later
    than Win 3.1 due to the lack of a suitable driver).

    Incidentally, I got a bit of a surprise when I plugged a 3 button PC
    mouse into my antique Mac Cube running OS/X 10.4.xx. The right button
    worked as expected (show options) as did the roller (scroll up/down).
    This was a pleasant surprise after living with only one button for so
    long. I know the new Apple Magic Mouse will act as a two button mouse
    bit it's still nice to have the mouse act the same in both OS/X and
    Windoze.


    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

  8. #8
    Michelle Steiner
    Guest

    Re: Fanboi's lament - falling out of love with the iPad

    In article <kk9806lb0pqmfkh6a3brvhfmf94js0inje@4ax.com>,
    Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

    > Incidentally, I got a bit of a surprise when I plugged a 3 button PC
    > mouse into my antique Mac Cube running OS/X 10.4.xx. The right button
    > worked as expected (show options) as did the roller (scroll up/down).
    > This was a pleasant surprise after living with only one button for so
    > long.


    Mac OS X has always supported two-button mice. Some earlier versions of
    Mac OS also supported them as well.

    --
    Check out the Hot Cocoa Party
    <http://www.hotcocoaparty.info>

  9. #9
    Your Name
    Guest

    Re: Fanboi's lament - falling out of love with the iPad

    In article <michelle-FA0D59.15112831052010@news.eternal-september.org>,
    Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

    > In article <kk9806lb0pqmfkh6a3brvhfmf94js0inje@4ax.com>,
    > Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
    >
    > > Incidentally, I got a bit of a surprise when I plugged a 3 button PC
    > > mouse into my antique Mac Cube running OS/X 10.4.xx. The right button
    > > worked as expected (show options) as did the roller (scroll up/down).
    > > This was a pleasant surprise after living with only one button for so
    > > long.

    >
    > Mac OS X has always supported two-button mice. Some earlier versions of
    > Mac OS also supported them as well.


    Any Mac could probably support a two / multi-button mouse if the company
    selling the device wanted to write driver software ... but the point is
    that the Mac doesn't need a two button mouse. Personally I very rarely had
    any need for more than one button.

  10. #10
    nospam
    Guest

    Re: Fanboi's lament - falling out of love with the iPad

    In article <kk9806lb0pqmfkh6a3brvhfmf94js0inje@4ax.com>, Jeff
    Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

    > Incidentally, I got a bit of a surprise when I plugged a 3 button PC
    > mouse into my antique Mac Cube running OS/X 10.4.xx. The right button
    > worked as expected (show options) as did the roller (scroll up/down).
    > This was a pleasant surprise after living with only one button for so
    > long. I know the new Apple Magic Mouse will act as a two button mouse
    > bit it's still nice to have the mouse act the same in both OS/X and
    > Windoze.


    multiple buttons have been supported by mac os since the early 1990s,
    and contextual menus since the late 1980s. with usb, it's a non-issue.

  11. #11
    Jeff Liebermann
    Guest

    Re: Fanboi's lament - falling out of love with the iPad

    On Mon, 31 May 2010 15:21:08 -0700, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
    wrote:

    >In article <kk9806lb0pqmfkh6a3brvhfmf94js0inje@4ax.com>, Jeff
    >Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
    >
    >> Incidentally, I got a bit of a surprise when I plugged a 3 button PC
    >> mouse into my antique Mac Cube running OS/X 10.4.xx. The right button
    >> worked as expected (show options) as did the roller (scroll up/down).
    >> This was a pleasant surprise after living with only one button for so
    >> long. I know the new Apple Magic Mouse will act as a two button mouse
    >> bit it's still nice to have the mouse act the same in both OS/X and
    >> Windoze.


    >multiple buttons have been supported by mac os since the early 1990s,
    >and contextual menus since the late 1980s. with usb, it's a non-issue.


    Ok, so why duz Apple continue to ship one button mice and laptops with
    one button touchpads? Here's one theory:
    <http://www.gearlive.com/index.php/news/article/why-apple-makes-a-one-buttoned-mouse-01280820/>

    I've lost count of how many times some great idea gets shot down by
    "The users don't need that feature. It will only confuse them". Of
    course there's no consideration to the discovery that they're already
    confused.

    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

  12. #12
    Char Jackson
    Guest

    Re: Fanboi's lament - falling out of love with the iPad

    On Mon, 31 May 2010 11:39:45 -0700, Michelle Steiner
    <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

    >And very few people know about the mouse to begin with. We had a display
    >that introduced the Mac; I can't tell you how many people picked up the
    >mouse, turned it over, and tried to use it as a trackball, even though the
    >monitor showed them how to use a mouse.


    The first time I saw a Mac one-button mouse I picked it up, too, but I
    wasn't trying to use it as a trackball. I was looking for the rest of
    the buttons!


  13. #13
    Michelle Steiner
    Guest

    Re: Fanboi's lament - falling out of love with the iPad

    In article <ptt806tjjh7b7t9vh1sm1iqkcng1bumfoe@4ax.com>,
    Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:

    > >And very few people know about the mouse to begin with. We had a
    > >display that introduced the Mac; I can't tell you how many people
    > >picked up the mouse, turned it over, and tried to use it as a
    > >trackball, even though the monitor showed them how to use a mouse.

    >
    > The first time I saw a Mac one-button mouse I picked it up, too, but I
    > wasn't trying to use it as a trackball. I was looking for the rest of
    > the buttons!


    Well, this was at a time when the general public didn't know anything about
    computer mice.

    --
    Check out the Hot Cocoa Party
    <http://www.hotcocoaparty.info>

Similar Threads

  1. Re: Fanboi's lament - falling out of love with the iPad
    By Your Name in forum alt.internet.wireless
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 05-31-10, 05:29 PM
  2. Re: Fanboi's lament - falling out of love with the iPad
    By nospam in forum alt.internet.wireless
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 05-31-10, 05:25 PM
  3. Re: Fanboi's lament - falling out of love with the iPad
    By Jeff Liebermann in forum alt.internet.wireless
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-31-10, 01:03 AM
  4. Re: Fanboi's lament - falling out of love with the iPad
    By George Kerby in forum alt.internet.wireless
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-30-10, 09:01 PM
  5. Re: Fanboi's lament - falling out of love with the iPad
    By Elmo P. Shagnasty in forum alt.internet.wireless
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-30-10, 02:01 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •