In article <iarvv5pjttjnc00bolj79o1el2b4aqfeks@4ax.com>, Char Jackson
<none@none.invalid> wrote:
> >i said it's available to developers, who are a subset of end users.
> >anyone that wants it can sign up and download it.
>
> Right, so that puts it squarely in the vaporware camp.
nospam wrote on [Fri, 28 May 2010 10:45:26 -0700]:
> In article <iarvv5pjttjnc00bolj79o1el2b4aqfeks@4ax.com>, Char Jackson
> <none@none.invalid> wrote:
>
>> >i said it's available to developers, who are a subset of end users.
>> >anyone that wants it can sign up and download it.
>>
>> Right, so that puts it squarely in the vaporware camp.
>
> nope. developers are end users too.
nospam wrote on [Fri, 28 May 2010 10:45:22 -0700]:
> In article <6revv5lii9bin5fcj5tgd5kq3vtcjn478o@4ax.com>, Paul Miner
> <pminer@elrancho.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the clarification. Developers aren't end users, so I'd say
>> it's back in the vapor category.
>
> of course developers are end users. they not only use the phone they
> develop for it.
On Fri, 28 May 2010 10:45:26 -0700, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:
>In article <iarvv5pjttjnc00bolj79o1el2b4aqfeks@4ax.com>, Char Jackson
><none@none.invalid> wrote:
>
>> >i said it's available to developers, who are a subset of end users.
>> >anyone that wants it can sign up and download it.
>>
>> Right, so that puts it squarely in the vaporware camp.
>
>nope. developers are end users too.
Sure, they could eventually be end users, but for now they are
developers. Hence, the product is not yet released and is therefore
vaporware.
I don't know how many ways you can twist this simple concept, but
every time you arrive right back where we started.
In article <fh0006dk2lto5b1l6uc5fqb886ou1qavvp@4ax.com>, Paul Miner
<pminer@elrancho.invalid> wrote:
> Sure, they could eventually be end users, but for now they are
> developers. Hence, the product is not yet released and is therefore
> vaporware.
it's not either/or. developers are end users. they were probably end
users before they became developers. just because they develop doesn't
mean they don't also use the phone.
> I don't know how many ways you can twist this simple concept, but
> every time you arrive right back where we started.
i'm not the one twisting.
you can keep trying to define what an end user or developer is, but
both iphone os 4 and android 2.2 have been released in limited ways.
one is just developers and the other is for only one model phone that
didn't sell very well. most android users can't update yet, even if
they wanted to.
On Fri, 28 May 2010 11:25:45 -0700, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:
>In article <fh0006dk2lto5b1l6uc5fqb886ou1qavvp@4ax.com>, Paul Miner
><pminer@elrancho.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Sure, they could eventually be end users, but for now they are
>> developers. Hence, the product is not yet released and is therefore
>> vaporware.
>
>it's not either/or. developers are end users. they were probably end
>users before they became developers. just because they develop doesn't
>mean they don't also use the phone.
>
>> I don't know how many ways you can twist this simple concept, but
>> every time you arrive right back where we started.
>
>i'm not the one twisting.
>
>you can keep trying to define what an end user or developer is,
I've never done that. I've only tried repeatedly to explain to you
what vaporware is (and isn't). Your resistance doesn't change
anything.
>but
>both iphone os 4 and android 2.2 have been released in limited ways.
>one is just developers and the other is for only one model phone that
>didn't sell very well. most android users can't update yet, even if
>they wanted to.
By what you're telling me directly above, Android 2.2 is released and
OS 4 is not yet released and is therefore vaporware.
On Fri, 28 May 2010 11:17:30 -0700, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:
>In article <htovpp$e74$2@news.eternal-september.org>, Justin
><nospam@insightbb.com> wrote:
>
>> > of course developers are end users. they not only use the phone they
>> > develop for it.
>>
>> But end users are not developers.
>
>some are.
Completely irrelevant. We aren't talking about developers, we're
talking about whether a particular piece of software has been released
to end users. In this context, developers are not end users,
obviously.
nospam wrote on [Fri, 28 May 2010 11:25:45 -0700]:
> In article <fh0006dk2lto5b1l6uc5fqb886ou1qavvp@4ax.com>, Paul Miner
> <pminer@elrancho.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Sure, they could eventually be end users, but for now they are
>> developers. Hence, the product is not yet released and is therefore
>> vaporware.
>
> it's not either/or. developers are end users. they were probably end
> users before they became developers. just because they develop doesn't
> mean they don't also use the phone.
Developers may be end users, but end users are not developers, and it hasn't
been released to end users. I know it's a simple concept and it's easy
to understand.
> i'm not the one twisting.
hahahaha.
> you can keep trying to define what an end user or developer is, but
> both iphone os 4 and android 2.2 have been released in limited ways.
> one is just developers and the other is for only one model phone that
> didn't sell very well. most android users can't update yet, even if
> they wanted to.
Limited or not, end users have access to it. End users who are nothing
but end users.
Just because a game is released that is console only doesn't mean
it's vapourware because it isn't available to PC gamers.
In article <htq4ig$tc2$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Justin
<nospam@insightbb.com> wrote:
> Limited or not, end users have access to it. End users who are nothing
> but end users.
very few of them. they must have a nexus one and seek it out manually.
adobe has not yet released flash 10.1 for that matter, and that's part
of android 2.2.
even the htc evos that google *gave* to attendees for free does not
have 2.2 because htc has won't be releasing 2.2 for months.
> Just because a game is released that is console only doesn't mean
> it's vapourware because it isn't available to PC gamers.
only to console users is it available. for pc users it's still vapor.
Kimmy Boyer wrote:
> On Sat, 29 May 2010 04:18:24 +0000 (UTC), Justin wrote:
>
>> Limited or not, end users have access to it. End users who are nothing
>> but end users.
>
> You talking about my butt?
How many of you out there suspect that "Kimmy" is a guy in drag?
Kimmy Boyer wrote:
> On Sat, 29 May 2010 18:36:33 -0400, Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
>
>> Kimmy Boyer wrote:
>>> On Sat, 29 May 2010 04:18:24 +0000 (UTC), Justin wrote:
>>>
>>>> Limited or not, end users have access to it. End users who are nothing
>>>> but end users.
>>> You talking about my butt?
>> How many of you out there suspect that "Kimmy" is a guy in drag?
>
> If I was, I could **** myself.
On Fri, 28 May 2010 21:23:28 -0700, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:
>In article <htq4ig$tc2$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Justin
><nospam@insightbb.com> wrote:
>
>> Limited or not, end users have access to it. End users who are nothing
>> but end users.
>
>very few of them.
You can't keep admitting you're wrong, (as you just did above, AGAIN),
and then immediately following up by denying you're wrong. On the
other hand, maybe you can since you show no signs of slowing.
For the slow readers, if it was released to end users, then it's no
longer vapor.
In article <ujm806tn5u4v4toc7eoac2k383npq28ofg@4ax.com>, Paul Miner
<pminer@elrancho.invalid> wrote:
> For the slow readers, if it was released to end users, then it's no
> longer vapor.
here it is again, stated very clearly:
for *some* nexus one owners (not all), there is a *prerelease* version
available. the date of the final release has not been announced.
for ALL other android users, 2.2 is *not* available, and may not be
until the end of the year. that is vapor.
since the nexus one did not sell anywhere near as much as the droid and
other android handsets, only a tiny fraction of android users can use a
prerelease. most will have to wait.
furthermore, adobe has said flash 10.1, which is part of android 2.2,
will be done on june 17, so 2.2 *can't* be done yet, unless google has
invented time travel.
calling a prerelease version of android non-vapor and a pre-release
version of iphone os 4 vapor is to be blunt, hypocritical ********.
nospam wrote on [Mon, 31 May 2010 18:22:16 -0700]:
> In article <ujm806tn5u4v4toc7eoac2k383npq28ofg@4ax.com>, Paul Miner
> <pminer@elrancho.invalid> wrote:
>
> calling a prerelease version of android non-vapor and a pre-release
> version of iphone os 4 vapor is to be blunt, hypocritical ********.
Once again you show your ignoraice. The iphone OS is not available
to end users. Only developers. End users are not developers.
End users of the Nexus One have access to android 2.2, so it is available
to end users.
In article <hu1o6g$u9q$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Justin
<nospam@insightbb.com> wrote:
> > calling a prerelease version of android non-vapor and a pre-release
> > version of iphone os 4 vapor is to be blunt, hypocritical ********.
>
> Once again you show your ignoraice. The iphone OS is not available
> to end users. Only developers. End users are not developers.
i've said it before, *any* end user can sign up as a developer and
download it if they want it. they can even pirate it.
iphone os 4 is very definitely available to anyone who wants it. in
fact, there are even iphones with 4.0 beta sold on ebay.
> End users of the Nexus One have access to android 2.2, so it is available
> to end users.
*only* for the nexus one, and it's a prerelease.
for every single other android handset it's vapor.
nospam wrote on [Mon, 31 May 2010 18:42:15 -0700]:
> In article <hu1o6g$u9q$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Justin
> <nospam@insightbb.com> wrote:
>
>> > calling a prerelease version of android non-vapor and a pre-release
>> > version of iphone os 4 vapor is to be blunt, hypocritical ********.
>>
>> Once again you show your ignoraice. The iphone OS is not available
>> to end users. Only developers. End users are not developers.
>
> i've said it before, *any* end user can sign up as a developer and
> download it if they want it. they can even pirate it.
Only if you have a Mac, the vast majority of people don't have one.
So, using your own standards, it's only available to a miniscule number
of users so it's vapor.
> iphone os 4 is very definitely available to anyone who wants it. in
> fact, there are even iphones with 4.0 beta sold on ebay.
You forget we have been talking about legally and ethically here.
>> End users of the Nexus One have access to android 2.2, so it is available
>> to end users.
>
> *only* for the nexus one, and it's a prerelease.
And it's available.
> for every single other android handset it's vapor.
Vapourware means unreleased, at all. The number of people who can use it
is irrelevant.
In article <hu1s4s$cbq$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Justin
<nospam@insightbb.com> wrote:
> > i've said it before, *any* end user can sign up as a developer and
> > download it if they want it. they can even pirate it.
>
> Only if you have a Mac, the vast majority of people don't have one.
you do not need a mac to sign up and download the firmware. you only
need a mac write apps.
> So, using your own standards, it's only available to a miniscule number
> of users so it's vapor.
nope, it's available to anyone who wants it.
>
> > iphone os 4 is very definitely available to anyone who wants it. in
> > fact, there are even iphones with 4.0 beta sold on ebay.
>
> You forget we have been talking about legally and ethically here.
just saying there are alternatives. signing up as a developer is legit.
> >> End users of the Nexus One have access to android 2.2, so it is available
> >> to end users.
> >
> > *only* for the nexus one, and it's a prerelease.
>
> And it's available.
it's not the final release. it's a beta.
> > for every single other android handset it's vapor.
>
> Vapourware means unreleased, at all. The number of people who can use it
> is irrelevant.
then it's vapor.
there is no released version of android 2.2 for droid users or the htc
evo, the phone that google gave out to google io attendees. you'd think
they'd at least have had it on those.
only *one* model phone has it, and it's a prerelease beta version.
nospam wrote on [Mon, 31 May 2010 19:51:32 -0700]:
> In article <hu1s4s$cbq$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Justin
> <nospam@insightbb.com> wrote:
>
>> > for every single other android handset it's vapor.
>>
>> Vapourware means unreleased, at all. The number of people who can use it
>> is irrelevant.
>
> then it's vapor.
>
>
> only *one* model phone has it, and it's a prerelease beta version.
In article <hu1vfo$ph3$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Justin
<nospam@insightbb.com> wrote:
> >> > for every single other android handset it's vapor.
> >>
> >> Vapourware means unreleased, at all. The number of people who can use it
> >> is irrelevant.
> >
> > then it's vapor.
> >
> > only *one* model phone has it, and it's a prerelease beta version.
>
> Which is it?
why is a prerelease for the nexus one not vapor when a prerelease for
the iphone is vapor?
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