Results 1 to 3 of 3

Thread: Newbie setting up wireless internet system for camp site.

  1. #1
    Anti-Spam
    Guest

    Newbie setting up wireless internet system for camp site.

    We are a Satellite TV installation company, here in Eastern Spain. We
    specialise in Communal UK TV, for expats. We have recently been given
    the opportunity to invest in, and install a "Pay To Use" Internet
    Service Provider system for a static home camping site, where we are
    already installing UK Satellite TV feeds, some 100 of them. The camp
    site does not have telephone lines going to it, and will not have, for
    the foreseeable future. The campers will be pretty much there all year
    round, so they will need Internet Access via their own PC's, and we
    would also like to be able to offer them a VOIP option. We have a
    building in a near-by village, where we can have ADSL phone lines
    bought in, and is in "Line Of Sight" about 1 - 2 kilometres away, with
    a "Centro Commercial" building on the camp site, which is placed
    centrally on the camp, up at the top end. The plots although, do not
    have "Line Of Sight" with our building in the village. We were
    originally going to deploy a standard WiFi system to the site (end
    customers use their own wireless connectivity), and use the services
    of a billing company, to spec. up, maintain and collect revenue for
    the system. But because this is a new site, and at the moment only has
    two potential end customers for us (they expect to fill the site
    within about two years), we found that their standing charges were too
    high, for the amount of revenue we would collect in the first
    instance. To get things started, we have decided to try and DIY it. We
    need to start with a small, but expandable system. The end customers
    will not be transient, so we have decided that in the first instance
    (unless advised differently), we would like to install a system, where
    we simply "lock-down" all the connections, and just physically collect
    a monthly rent for a connection to it, via the equipment
    (Ethernet/Wireless Link) we rent to them. To explain my line of
    thinking a bit better, I was thinking on the lines of the following.
    We start with just 1 ADSL line, connected to a standard DSL Modem with
    Ethernet Out (more lines/modems to be added later, as the system usage
    expands). From the Modem/Modems, into an Ethernet switch. From the
    Ethernet switch, we connect to a "Point 2 Point" Ethernet building
    link, like the Ubiquiti Nanobridge M Airmax Mimo Wireless PTP Kit.
    This links the village 1-2 Kilometres away, with the building in the
    middle, at the top end of our camp site. From the output of the PTP
    kit we connect to a professional router, then from the router, we use
    an 180o roof mounted external antenna, to transmit a low power signal
    around the camp site (maximum distance 400 metres). On each of the
    pitches, we rent the end user a Wireless to Ethernet bridge, again
    with external directional antenna, pointing at the central building on
    the camp site. This Wireless Ethernet bridge, would ideally have two
    Ethernet connectors, one for the end users PC connection to the
    Internet, and the other to a VOIP adaptor, which they would also have
    the option of renting from us (if they opt for the telephone service).
    Each Wireless Ethernet bridge we rent out, would have its own unique
    MAC number (1 or 2 for each pitch). We would remotely control
    allowance or disallowance access to the system from our office (many
    kilometres away), over the internet, updating the router with which
    MAC codes to allow/disallow, depending upon the end customers account
    status with us.

    We are total newbie's to this area of technology, although we do have
    a reasonable good knowledge of RF signals. We would like peoples
    opinion on the above, including suggestions on what equipment to use.
    We are funding this speculative project ourselves, so cost is an issue
    (especially the Wireless/Ethernet Bridges). Our main concerns would be
    the following.

    1. Price of the Wireless Ethernet bridges (major concern)
    2. Security of the system against unauthorised usage
    3. Being able to remotely control the MAC address allows/disallows
    4. Making sure that the VOIP adaptor outputs have good "Quality of
    Service" available from our system
    5. The Wireless Ethernet bridges can be "locked down" securely.
    6. Router and Ethernet bridges have Antenna connectors suitable for
    external Antenna use.
    7. We may at some point like to have different levels of service
    available to the end user (speed/data usage), this could be set in the
    Router or in the Wireless Ethernet bridges, but again we would like to
    be able to control these levels of service options, remotely.

    This all happens near a smallish Spanish village, and although I have
    not scanned the spectrum, my guess is there will not be a lot of Radio
    traffic in the area. We will soak up advice willingly, if you will
    help, TIA.





    Second part to the question. We will probably change over to a more
    "professional" system at a later date, and install Wireless Access
    Points across the site, so that they can use their own wireless
    enabled PC's. Whilst we are laying cables etc, it would seem a good
    idea to lay any Ethernet cables along side our Satellite TV cables,
    even if we don't use them straight away. I need further advice on what
    cables we should be laying. We are installing 11 TV hubs (which have
    mains power) evenly scattered across the site, but the distances
    involved (some more than 100 metres), as I understand it, are too much
    for Ethernet cabling. Although the long runs are broken up with our TV
    hubs. Do we need to run a separate Ethernet cable for each access
    point, back to a central point? Or can we split the signal (for want
    of a better expression) between more than one hub, from a single
    Ethernet cable?

    Regards
    Mark S.
    mark@markXscotford.com (remove the X to reply)

  2. #2
    alexd
    Guest

    Re: Newbie setting up wireless internet system for camp site.

    On 31/03/10 09:25, Anti-Spam wrote:

    > we would also like to be able to offer them a VOIP option.


    Where are the VoIP calls going to get onto the PSTN? Over the internet
    or in your office? Keep in mind how many concurrent calls you'll be able
    to get down your DSL, and what sort of QoS you'll need if your VoIP
    traffic will be sharing a line with internet traffic. More about the
    VoIP bit later...

    > [description of scenario]
    > To get things started, we have decided to try and DIY it.


    There are plenty of software building blocks out there available for
    free if you want to DIY it, eg captive portals:

    http://www.chillispot.info/

    Routers/firewalls that can be installed on PC hardware:

    http://zeroshell.net
    http://www.pfsense.org
    http://m0n0.ch/wall/
    http://vyatta.org

    > We
    > need to start with a small, but expandable system. The end customers
    > will not be transient, so we have decided that in the first instance
    > (unless advised differently), we would like to install a system, where
    > we simply "lock-down" all the connections, and just physically collect
    > a monthly rent for a connection to it, via the equipment
    > (Ethernet/Wireless Link) we rent to them.


    If you can possibly countenance laying ethernet to every user, I suggest
    you do. It's going to be so much more reliable than wireless. However, I
    think you're posting in alt.internet.wireless because you don't want to
    do that :-)

    > To explain my line of
    > thinking a bit better, I was thinking on the lines of the following.
    > We start with just 1 ADSL line, connected to a standard DSL Modem with
    > Ethernet Out (more lines/modems to be added later, as the system usage
    > expands).


    You'll want a router/firewall that can do load balancing across multiple
    WANs to bring these all together,

    > From the Modem/Modems, into an Ethernet switch. From the
    > Ethernet switch, we connect to a "Point 2 Point" Ethernet building
    > link, like the Ubiquiti Nanobridge M Airmax Mimo Wireless PTP Kit.


    Sounds reasonable so far.

    > This links the village 1-2 Kilometres away, with the building in the
    > middle, at the top end of our camp site. From the output of the PTP
    > kit we connect to a professional router, then from the router, we use
    > an 180o roof mounted external antenna, to transmit a low power signal
    > around the camp site (maximum distance 400 metres).


    I think you could be surprised at just how bad this could be. Multiple
    clients sharing an AP, at distances of up to 400m could perform
    horrifically badly, as the AP will have to drop its wireless rate to
    service the least able [ie worst signal strength] client. However, as
    they'll all be sharing a single DSL, it's one method of rate limiting!

    > We would remotely control
    > allowance or disallowance access to the system from our office (many
    > kilometres away), over the internet, updating the router with which
    > MAC codes to allow/disallow, depending upon the end customers account
    > status with us.


    You will want something more secure than MAC address authentication for
    this if you're going to be charging actual money for it.

    > We are total newbie's to this area of technology, although we do have
    > a reasonable good knowledge of RF signals. We would like peoples
    > opinion on the above, including suggestions on what equipment to use.
    > We are funding this speculative project ourselves, so cost is an issue
    > (especially the Wireless/Ethernet Bridges). Our main concerns would be
    > the following.
    >
    > 1. Price of the Wireless Ethernet bridges (major concern)


    Ubiquiti's prices are quite reasonable IMO, and you'll be able to use
    their management platform [free] to manage them. Failing that, pretty
    much anything you can install dd-wrt [free] on will work as a wireless
    bridge.

    http://ubnt.com/aircontrol
    http://www.dd-wrt.com

    > 2. Security of the system against unauthorised usage
    > 3. Being able to remotely control the MAC address allows/disallows


    Using MAC addresses as an access control token is not compatible with 2.

    > 4. Making sure that the VOIP adaptor outputs have good "Quality of
    > Service" available from our system


    Ha. 802.11 is half duplex, shared broadcast medium. That means when one
    node speaks, every other node hears it. VoIP requires a good few [~50]
    packets per second in each direction whilst a call is active. Once
    you've got more than a handful of nodes connected to your AP, VoIP
    quality is going to suffer. Cisco [for example] recommend max 7
    concurrent calls per AP:

    <http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/voice_ip_comm/cuipph/7920/5_0/english/design/guide/wrlinfra.html#wp1040697>

    You might able to get away with it if this network was only to be used
    for voice, but once somebody comes along and starts using BitTorrent or
    tries to watch an HD video, phone calls are going to be ****.

    > 5. The Wireless Ethernet bridges can be "locked down" securely.


    I'm yet to see an AP/bridge that isn't password protectable.

    > 6. Router and Ethernet bridges have Antenna connectors suitable for
    > external Antenna use.
    > 7. We may at some point like to have different levels of service
    > available to the end user (speed/data usage), this could be set in the
    > Router or in the Wireless Ethernet bridges, but again we would like to
    > be able to control these levels of service options, remotely.


    Ubiquiti do loads of WISP stuff as well as point-to-point so that may be
    of some interest to you.

    > Second part to the question. We will probably change over to a more
    > "professional" system at a later date, and install Wireless Access
    > Points across the site, so that they can use their own wireless
    > enabled PC's. Whilst we are laying cables etc, it would seem a good
    > idea to lay any Ethernet cables along side our Satellite TV cables,
    > even if we don't use them straight away.


    Definitely. You might even consider laying fibre too.

    > I need further advice on what
    > cables we should be laying. We are installing 11 TV hubs (which have
    > mains power) evenly scattered across the site, but the distances
    > involved (some more than 100 metres), as I understand it, are too much
    > for Ethernet cabling. Although the long runs are broken up with our TV
    > hubs. Do we need to run a separate Ethernet cable for each access
    > point, back to a central point? Or can we split the signal (for want
    > of a better expression) between more than one hub, from a single
    > Ethernet cable?


    No, each hub does not need it's own ethernet back to a central point.
    You can daisychain ethernet switches [or APs with switchports on]
    together to connect multiple devices to the same cable. With the amount
    of bandwidth you're talking about [single ADSL] 100M ethernet [aka Fast
    Ethernet] will not be a problem. Gigabit ethernet should be more than
    sufficient for future expansion.

    --
    <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (UnSoEsNpEaTm@ale.cx)
    21:20:28 up 56 days, 1:25, 1 user, load average: 0.58, 0.38, 0.27
    It is better to have been wasted and then sober
    than to never have been wasted at all

  3. #3
    ps56k
    Guest

    Re: Newbie setting up wireless internet system for camp site.

    campsites - campgrounds - LOS and Wifi -

    It's been discussed here several times
    with all the issues, concerns, hurdles, & learned lessons..

    Do a search on the group
    and look for those previous threads
    http://groups.google.com/group/alt.i...ireless/topics

    or just a general search for the various other web-based WiFi forums.




Similar Threads

  1. HOWTO: Overclock C2D (Core 2 Duo) and C2Q (Core 2 Quads) - A Guide
    By graysky in forum Hardware & Overclocking
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 04-23-10, 05:22 AM
  2. Re: Limited or no connectivity on my Wireless Connection
    By ctran in forum ms.public.windows.networking.wireless
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-17-10, 08:59 PM
  3. Wireless security
    By JimL in forum ms.public.windows.networking.wireless
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 12-16-09, 04:57 PM
  4. I have no clue...router breeched?
    By cig19335 in forum Wireless Networks & Routers
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-29-08, 09:31 AM
  5. Newbie - wireless internet question
    By mac in forum ms.public.windows.networking.wireless
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 10-17-08, 09:13 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •