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Thread: Re: iPad Study: The More You Know, The Less You Want One

  1. #1
    Mike Jacoubowsky
    Guest

    Re: iPad Study: The More You Know, The Less You Want One

    "John Navas" <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> wrote in message
    news:ajmsm59b3eht5veql9od18248b54j51986@4ax.com...
    > The more people know about the iPad, the less they want to buy one,
    > according to a study released Friday. But, are we expecting too much?
    >
    > The study seems to confirm the iPad as Apple's least exciting
    > announcement in years. And the company is feeling the backlash that
    > comes from not delivering on the hype.
    >
    > Retrevo, an online marketplace for consumer electronics, surveyed 1,000
    > of its customers and found that the iPad's Jan. 27 announcement did more
    > to snuff out customer interest than to spark it.
    >
    > MORE:
    > <http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/188745/ipad_study_the_more_you_know_the_less_you_want_one.html>
    >
    > --
    > Best regards,
    > John <http:/navasgroup.com>


    What Apple has done so well, yet again, is to legitimize the *desire* to own
    such a product. I can assure you that, after Apple's iPad announcement, the
    bicycle retail e-list was abuzz regarding the use of tablets as roaming
    point-of-sale terminals. Prior to this, it was a technology that was
    available, but risky. Once Apple jumps in, all of a sudden it represents a
    "safe" investment, something that you almost have to do to keep up.

    Presently, nearly every decent point-of-sale system runs on Windows, not Mac
    computers. That's not likely to change. But dealers across the country are
    figuring out ways to use the iPad as a remote terminal, easily done with one
    of several programs currently available for the iPhone (I use WinAdmin)...
    but the iPhone doesn't have the real estate required.

    The biggest drawback to the iPad is battery life. In retail, we need 8 solid
    hours of battery life, so either the unit's got to hold up that long or have
    a battery that can be changed out... neither of which the iPad currently
    has. So many of us are now looking at alternatives that would fit our
    needs.... something we wouldn't have done prior to Apple's announcement.

    Apple's role in legitimizing demand for technologies is dramatically
    underestimated.

    --Mike Jacoubowsky
    Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReaction.com
    Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


  2. #2
    nospam
    Guest

    Re: iPad Study: The More You Know, The Less You Want One

    In article <gpCdnepHI90W6PLWnZ2dnUVZ_qqdnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Mike
    Jacoubowsky <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote:

    > The biggest drawback to the iPad is battery life. In retail, we need 8 solid
    > hours of battery life, so either the unit's got to hold up that long or have
    > a battery that can be changed out... neither of which the iPad currently
    > has.


    then it's a good thing that it has 10 hours of battery life, and that's
    quoted as surfing the 'net. it can play music for 140 hours. i doubt
    you'll need it to be using it for the entire 8 hours, non-stop anyway,
    and it's not like you can't drop it into a dock at some point either.

  3. #3
    Mike Jacoubowsky
    Guest

    Re: iPad Study: The More You Know, The Less You Want One

    "nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
    news:070220101847548623%nospam@nospam.invalid...
    > In article <gpCdnepHI90W6PLWnZ2dnUVZ_qqdnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Mike
    > Jacoubowsky <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
    >
    >> The biggest drawback to the iPad is battery life. In retail, we need 8
    >> solid
    >> hours of battery life, so either the unit's got to hold up that long or
    >> have
    >> a battery that can be changed out... neither of which the iPad currently
    >> has.

    >
    > then it's a good thing that it has 10 hours of battery life, and that's
    > quoted as surfing the 'net. it can play music for 140 hours. i doubt
    > you'll need it to be using it for the entire 8 hours, non-stop anyway,
    > and it's not like you can't drop it into a dock at some point either.


    "Up to 10 hours of surfing the web on Wi-Fi, watching video, or listening to
    music Up to 10 hours of surfing the web on Wi-Fi, watching video, or
    listening to music" (from Apple's website).

    For the iPhone, Apple says "Internet use: Up to 5 hours on 3G Up to 9 hours
    on Wi-Fi"

    Up to.

    I've got a lot of experience with the iPhone 3G. I use it extensively.
    Marvelous tool, much more than a toy. And those "Up to" figures are about
    twice real life (for me). Do we have reason to believe it not safe to
    extrapolate similarly for the iPad?

    --Mike Jacoubowsky
    Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReaction.com
    Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


  4. #4
    nospam
    Guest

    Re: iPad Study: The More You Know, The Less You Want One

    In article <D5idnahRGqG_HfLWnZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Mike
    Jacoubowsky <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote:

    > "Up to 10 hours of surfing the web on Wi-Fi, watching video, or listening to
    > music Up to 10 hours of surfing the web on Wi-Fi, watching video, or
    > listening to music" (from Apple's website).
    >
    > For the iPhone, Apple says "Internet use: Up to 5 hours on 3G Up to 9 hours
    > on Wi-Fi"
    >
    > Up to.
    >
    > I've got a lot of experience with the iPhone 3G. I use it extensively.
    > Marvelous tool, much more than a toy. And those "Up to" figures are about
    > twice real life (for me). Do we have reason to believe it not safe to
    > extrapolate similarly for the iPad?


    and if you notice, apple only gives *one* number for the ipad, whereas
    they give several different numbers for the iphone (talk time, video,
    audio, etc.).

    the ipad is not out yet. at least wait until it ships to find out
    whether it's suitable.

  5. #5
    Jeff Liebermann
    Guest

    Re: iPad Study: The More You Know, The Less You Want One

    On Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:08:20 -0800, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
    <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote:

    >"Up to 10 hours of surfing the web on Wi-Fi, watching video, or listening to
    >music Up to 10 hours of surfing the web on Wi-Fi, watching video, or
    >listening to music" (from Apple's website).


    I've found that a new battery meets or exceeds Apple's published
    specifications. However, battery operating time deteriorates with
    Li-Ion batteries as the battery ages. A new Ipod Touch 2G battery
    will play music for about 10 hours if I let the display go blank, or
    1.5 hrs with the wi-fi and display active. My 3 year old battery now
    plays music for maybe 3 hrs or 0.5 hrs with the wi-fi active. More:
    <http://forums.ilounge.com/showthread.php?t=215227>
    I bought a case cracking tool and a replacement battery, but managed
    to cut myself on the metal back trying to open the case and gave up.

    Battery life also deteriorates more rapidly if you maintain a Li-Ion
    battery at maximum charge, and bake it inside a laptop or heat
    generating device. No clue yet how warm the iPad will run. More:
    <http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm>

    It might also be of interest to know the battery life for the latest
    Windoze 7 touch screen laptops is claimed at 3 to 5 hours:
    <http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9140385/Review_3_Windows_7_touch_screen_laptops>
    (4 pages)

    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

  6. #6
    Larry
    Guest

    Re: iPad Study: The More You Know, The Less You Want One

    Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in
    news:2d3vm55p50pb5od8ntdokrikkf6oveg84n@4ax.com:

    > I've found that a new battery meets or exceeds Apple's published
    > specifications. However, battery operating time deteriorates with
    > Li-Ion batteries as the battery ages. A new Ipod Touch 2G battery
    > will play music for about 10 hours if I let the display go blank, or
    > 1.5 hrs with the wi-fi and display active. My 3 year old battery now
    > plays music for maybe 3 hrs or 0.5 hrs with the wi-fi active. More:
    > <http://forums.ilounge.com/showthread.php?t=215227>
    > I bought a case cracking tool and a replacement battery, but managed
    > to cut myself on the metal back trying to open the case and gave up.
    >


    It's really too bad the batteries are so hard to change and so cheaply
    built shoved into the box like they are.

    I just bought this:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/OEM-MOTOROLA-FOR...Z6m-Z6tv-BT50-
    BATTERY_W0QQitemZ320472286553QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPDA_Accessories?
    hash=item4a9da30559
    Motorola BT50 OEM battery for my old MotoROKR Z6m I use on Pageplus for
    $2.19 from HongKong with FREE SHIPPING! I got 4 of them at this price.
    They were sealed in the OEM shipping bags their bulk, no bubblepacks, come
    in from China. Even the Motorola halogram label is on them, the date code
    was 2 weeks old!

    The new batteries were all much better than the one the phone came with,
    even though it's the same exact battery. They're all really fresh. The
    sale is closed, now, but I bet they still have them at this price.
    Delivery took 12 days because of the damned backup at the customs office.



    --
    "iPad is to computing what Etch-A-Sketch is to art!"

    Larry


  7. #7
    Mike Jacoubowsky
    Guest

    Re: iPad Study: The More You Know, The Less You Want One

    "Larry" <noone@home.com> wrote in message
    news:Xns9D1926A217070noonehomecom@74.209.131.13...
    > Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in
    > news:2d3vm55p50pb5od8ntdokrikkf6oveg84n@4ax.com:
    >
    >> I've found that a new battery meets or exceeds Apple's published
    >> specifications. However, battery operating time deteriorates with
    >> Li-Ion batteries as the battery ages. A new Ipod Touch 2G battery
    >> will play music for about 10 hours if I let the display go blank, or
    >> 1.5 hrs with the wi-fi and display active. My 3 year old battery now
    >> plays music for maybe 3 hrs or 0.5 hrs with the wi-fi active. More:
    >> <http://forums.ilounge.com/showthread.php?t=215227>
    >> I bought a case cracking tool and a replacement battery, but managed
    >> to cut myself on the metal back trying to open the case and gave up.
    >>

    >
    > It's really too bad the batteries are so hard to change and so cheaply
    > built shoved into the box like they are.
    >
    > I just bought this:
    > http://cgi.ebay.com/OEM-MOTOROLA-FOR...Z6m-Z6tv-BT50-
    > BATTERY_W0QQitemZ320472286553QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPDA_Accessories?
    > hash=item4a9da30559
    > Motorola BT50 OEM battery for my old MotoROKR Z6m I use on Pageplus for
    > $2.19 from HongKong with FREE SHIPPING! I got 4 of them at this price.
    > They were sealed in the OEM shipping bags their bulk, no bubblepacks, come
    > in from China. Even the Motorola halogram label is on them, the date code
    > was 2 weeks old!
    >
    > The new batteries were all much better than the one the phone came with,
    > even though it's the same exact battery. They're all really fresh. The
    > sale is closed, now, but I bet they still have them at this price.
    > Delivery took 12 days because of the damned backup at the customs office.


    Hopefully better than the camera batteries I've purchased (for a Rebel
    350XT). Worked great initially, slightly longer life, but after a couple
    months wouldn't hold more than about 1/4 of their earlier charge. These
    clearly weren't the "same exact battery" as the capacity claim was higher.

    On the other hand, I purchased a "Kodak" brand replacement battery for my
    Fuji EX200, cost a fair amount less than the Fuji battery, and has held up
    great through extended use.

    --Mike Jacoubowsky
    Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReaction.com
    Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


  8. #8
    Jeff Liebermann
    Guest

    Re: iPad Study: The More You Know, The Less You Want One

    On Sun, 7 Feb 2010 18:23:09 -0800, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
    <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote:

    >I can assure you that, after Apple's iPad announcement, the
    >bicycle retail e-list was abuzz regarding the use of tablets as roaming
    >point-of-sale terminals.


    Umm... what are you going to do for printing receipts? In the state
    of Calif, you're required to give a receipt if you charge sales tax.
    If the iPad is anything like the iPod Touch, printing is handled by
    3rd party applications, usually in some bizarre manner. Others will
    only do photos, not ASCII text. For example:
    <http://www.hp.com/global/us/en/consumer/digital_photography/free/software/iprint-photo.html>
    Epson and Canon have similar apps.

    There's a free test applications for Print Magic which does apparently
    does ASCII text that's worth trying:
    <http://wellala.com/printer_test_app>

    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

  9. #9
    Steve Fenwick
    Guest

    Re: iPad Study: The More You Know, The Less You Want One

    In article <qbt0n5p3q8pbdl23kg0lujhinjhhidvc1s@4ax.com>,
    Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

    > On Sun, 7 Feb 2010 18:23:09 -0800, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
    > <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
    >
    > >I can assure you that, after Apple's iPad announcement, the
    > >bicycle retail e-list was abuzz regarding the use of tablets as roaming
    > >point-of-sale terminals.

    >
    > Umm... what are you going to do for printing receipts? In the state
    > of Calif, you're required to give a receipt if you charge sales tax.
    > If the iPad is anything like the iPod Touch, printing is handled by
    > 3rd party applications, usually in some bizarre manner. Others will
    > only do photos, not ASCII text. For example:
    > <http://www.hp.com/global/us/en/consu...e/software/ipr
    > int-photo.html>
    > Epson and Canon have similar apps.
    >
    > There's a free test applications for Print Magic which does apparently
    > does ASCII text that's worth trying:
    > <http://wellala.com/printer_test_app>


    At the Apple Stores, they give you the option to have your receipt
    emailed. With WiFi, it shouldn't be hard to have a printer hanging off a
    wireless print server.

    Yes, the software will need to cooperate. One would hope that would be
    part of any good POS system.

    Steve

    --
    steve <at> w0x0f <dot> com
    "Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of
    arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to
    skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, chip shot in the other, body thoroughly
    used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

  10. #10
    Jeff Liebermann
    Guest

    Re: iPad Study: The More You Know, The Less You Want One

    On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 18:53:08 -0800, Steve Fenwick
    <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

    >> There's a free test applications for Print Magic which does apparently
    >> does ASCII text that's worth trying:
    >> <http://wellala.com/printer_test_app>


    I fire up this application at home, and it sees my HP2200dtn printer,
    with internal Jetdirect card using both IPP and some other protocol. I
    then drive to the office, try the same test application on the same
    Ipod Touch, and it doesn't find my office printer, which is exactly
    the same HP2200dtn and roughly the same Jetdirect card. Yes, the
    wi-fi is working. Welcome to life in printer hell. I'll figure it
    out when I have more time.

    >At the Apple Stores, they give you the option to have your receipt
    >emailed.


    Non-compliant with FACT laws. Here's a human readable summary:
    <http://www.klgates.com/files/Publication/dfc6105b-d751-4209-8fbc-3323770c8485/Presentation/PublicationAttachment/4627035f-6be9-4e74-b138-362004d87f12/Towle_merchant_receipts.pdf>
    Bottom line is a printed receipt is required and that the credit card
    and ID numbers must be obfuscated.

    >With WiFi, it shouldn't be hard to have a printer hanging off a
    >wireless print server.


    Assumption, the mother of all screwups.

    >Yes, the software will need to cooperate. One would hope that would be
    >part of any good POS system.


    Ummm... I've always assumed that printing was the responsibility of
    the operating system. It's been that way since Windoze 1.0. Are we
    now to go back to the bad old daze of MSDOS applications with built in
    printer drivers? Yech. If the iPad is to be something more than an
    oversized iPod Touch, then some OS/X features need to included.



    --
    # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
    # 831-336-2558
    # http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
    # http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

  11. #11
    nospam
    Guest

    Re: iPad Study: The More You Know, The Less You Want One

    In article <9vm1n5lau2mi0lu6tboed7oc9bec8nq6m9@4ax.com>, Jeff
    Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

    > >At the Apple Stores, they give you the option to have your receipt
    > >emailed.

    >
    > Non-compliant with FACT laws.


    maybe so but nobody seems to care.

  12. #12
    Larry
    Guest

    Re: iPad Study: The More You Know, The Less You Want One

    nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in news:080220102219396881%
    nospam@nospam.invalid:

    > but nobody seems to care.
    >


    There's the really scary part. Noone seems to care what Apple does to
    them. They're all in a kind of trance like zombies in an old
    movie....standing at the front door all night looking into the store with
    that blank look on their faces......



    --
    "iPad is to computing what Etch-A-Sketch is to art!"

    Larry


  13. #13
    Steve Fenwick
    Guest

    Re: iPad Study: The More You Know, The Less You Want One

    In article <9vm1n5lau2mi0lu6tboed7oc9bec8nq6m9@4ax.com>,
    Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

    > On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 18:53:08 -0800, Steve Fenwick
    > <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:


    > >At the Apple Stores, they give you the option to have your receipt
    > >emailed.

    >
    > Non-compliant with FACT laws. Here's a human readable summary:
    > <http://www.klgates.com/files/Publica...c-3323770c8485
    > /Presentation/PublicationAttachment/4627035f-6be9-4e74-b138-362004d87f12/Towle
    > _merchant_receipts.pdf>
    > Bottom line is a printed receipt is required and that the credit card
    > and ID numbers must be obfuscated.


    I don't see where it requires a printed-on-paper receipt. The article
    does discuss what needs to be done with card numbers on receipts. It
    also specifically discusses card numbers on electronic-only receipts:

    > In essence, the claims are that confirmation pages, łthank you for
    > your order˛ pages, and
    > łorder status˛ pages etc. are receipts that may not show the full
    > credit or debit card number or expiration date.


    > >With WiFi, it shouldn't be hard to have a printer hanging off a
    > >wireless print server.

    >
    > Assumption, the mother of all screwups.


    Works great with Mac OS X on Apple Macs and Apple WiFi gear.


    > >Yes, the software will need to cooperate. One would hope that would be
    > >part of any good POS system.

    >
    > Ummm... I've always assumed that printing was the responsibility of
    > the operating system. It's been that way since Windoze 1.0. Are we
    > now to go back to the bad old daze of MSDOS applications with built in
    > printer drivers? Yech. If the iPad is to be something more than an
    > oversized iPod Touch, then some OS/X features need to included.


    Your comment was:

    > If the iPad is anything like the iPod Touch, printing is handled by
    > 3rd party applications, usually in some bizarre manner.


    Given that context, one would expect the POS software (hopefully) not to
    do something bizarre.

    Steve

    --
    steve <at> w0x0f <dot> com
    "Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of
    arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to
    skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, chip shot in the other, body thoroughly
    used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

  14. #14
    SMS
    Guest

    Re: iPad Study: The More You Know, The Less You Want One

    On Feb 8, 3:47*am, Larry <no...@home.com> wrote:

    > The new batteries were all much better than the one the phone came with,
    > even though it's the same exact battery. *They're all really fresh. *The
    > sale is closed, now,


    "http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.23708"

    A very good source for stuff like that. One thing I've noticed is the
    batteries are much fresher than what I could buy in the U.S..

    That store also has one of the best bicycle lights in the world at
    about 1/5 the price of what a comparable light costs from bicycle
    accessory companies.

    "http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.25149"

  15. #15
    Jeff Liebermann
    Guest

    Re: iPad Study: The More You Know, The Less You Want One

    On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 01:52:29 -0800, Steve Fenwick
    <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

    >In article <9vm1n5lau2mi0lu6tboed7oc9bec8nq6m9@4ax.com>,
    > Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
    >
    >> On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 18:53:08 -0800, Steve Fenwick
    >> <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

    >
    >> >At the Apple Stores, they give you the option to have your receipt
    >> >emailed.

    >>
    >> Non-compliant with FACT laws. Here's a human readable summary:
    >> <http://www.klgates.com/files/Publica...c-3323770c8485
    >> /Presentation/PublicationAttachment/4627035f-6be9-4e74-b138-362004d87f12/Towle
    >> _merchant_receipts.pdf>
    >> Bottom line is a printed receipt is required and that the credit card
    >> and ID numbers must be obfuscated.


    >I don't see where it requires a printed-on-paper receipt. The article
    >does discuss what needs to be done with card numbers on receipts. It
    >also specifically discusses card numbers on electronic-only receipts:


    Hmmm... You're correct. I had always assumed that a merchant was
    required to give a receipt when asked by the customer. I'd also
    assumed that printed receipts were required for tax purposes. However,
    a Google search didn't find anything of the sort. Obviously online
    vendors are not required to provide printed receipts. I'll check with
    an accountant.

    However, I did excavate one interesting item:
    <http://www.consumeradvertisinglawblog.com/2009/12/facta-e-mail-receipt-not-electronically-printed.html>
    Apparently the Feds do not consider an emailed receipt to be a
    "printed" receipt, and are therefore not covered by various privacy
    and identity theft protection laws. Very strange.

    >> >With WiFi, it shouldn't be hard to have a printer hanging off a
    >> >wireless print server.

    >>
    >> Assumption, the mother of all screwups.

    >
    >Works great with Mac OS X on Apple Macs and Apple WiFi gear.


    Sure. Everything works great if you subscribe to an all Apple
    solution. However, my customers (and I) tend to use a mix of
    technologies and vendors, which are often not so cooperative. My
    current mystery with why printing from my iPod Touch to two allegedly
    identical printers only works with one is a fair example. I also have
    some experience dealing with IPP (internet printing protocol), which I
    can only describe and complex, messy, and difficult to troubleshoot.

    >> >Yes, the software will need to cooperate. One would hope that would be
    >> >part of any good POS system.

    >>
    >> Ummm... I've always assumed that printing was the responsibility of
    >> the operating system. It's been that way since Windoze 1.0. Are we
    >> now to go back to the bad old daze of MSDOS applications with built in
    >> printer drivers? Yech. If the iPad is to be something more than an
    >> oversized iPod Touch, then some OS/X features need to included.

    >
    >Your comment was:
    >
    >> If the iPad is anything like the iPod Touch, printing is handled by
    >> 3rd party applications, usually in some bizarre manner.

    >
    >Given that context, one would expect the POS software (hopefully) not to
    >do something bizarre.


    Sure, but the POS software should not need to include an application
    which enables printing. The POS software might include recommended
    3rd party iPad or iPod Touch applications for printing, which they
    have tested. It might also include sample setups for wireless
    printing. However, in my never humble opinion, all that is really the
    responsibility of the operating system, and not the applications
    vendor. Besides, it would be rather difficult in an iPod Touch like
    operating environment, which doesn't allow user application
    multitasking or background processes. The printing application would
    thus need to be a seperate program, to be run after the POS
    application is closed. It will work, but is really clumsy. Now, if
    Apple included a printing application with the iPad, it could become a
    background process, which will be much better. However, I've seen no
    evidence of such an application on the iPad or iPod Touch yet.


    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

  16. #16
    Larry
    Guest

    Re: iPad Study: The More You Know, The Less You Want One

    SMS <scharf.steven@gmail.com> wrote in news:49a2c93d-0706-4057-a907-
    c1c2418bf480@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com:

    > On Feb 8, 3:47*am, Larry <no...@home.com> wrote:
    >
    >> The new batteries were all much better than the one the phone came with,
    >> even though it's the same exact battery. *They're all really fresh. *

    > The
    >> sale is closed, now,

    >
    > "http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.23708"
    >
    > A very good source for stuff like that. One thing I've noticed is the
    > batteries are much fresher than what I could buy in the U.S..
    >
    > That store also has one of the best bicycle lights in the world at
    > about 1/5 the price of what a comparable light costs from bicycle
    > accessory companies.
    >
    > "http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.25149"
    >


    Thank you! Thanks for taking the time to inform us.

    --
    "iPad is to computing what Etch-A-Sketch is to art!"

    Larry


  17. #17
    Jeff Liebermann
    Guest

    Re: iPad Study: The More You Know, The Less You Want One

    On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:54:43 -0800, John Navas
    <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> wrote:

    >On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:52:41 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    >wrote in <2d3vm55p50pb5od8ntdokrikkf6oveg84n@4ax.com>:
    >
    >>On Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:08:20 -0800, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
    >><MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>>"Up to 10 hours of surfing the web on Wi-Fi, watching video, or listening to
    >>>music Up to 10 hours of surfing the web on Wi-Fi, watching video, or
    >>>listening to music" (from Apple's website).

    >>
    >>I've found that a new battery meets or exceeds Apple's published
    >>specifications.

    >
    >I sure haven't -- I've found the iPhone numbers to be quite optimistic,
    >on the order 2x actual performance with a brand new battery.


    No clue on the iPhone. However a new iPod Touch battery was fairly
    close to Apples claims. There are huge variabilities in how people
    use these things. I know one sales personality that is yacking on his
    iPhone constantly. He complains that the battery won't make it
    through an 8 hr day (plus his commute). I'm not surprised. Others
    mention that they charge theirs every 2-3 days. There are various
    apps that can predict battery life based on past usage. I have one
    and it's fairly accurate.

    We also have a unique problem in my area. Coverage from all the
    providers in the San Lorenzo Valley is spotty. If you spend some time
    in places where there's no coverage, the stupid phone will "hunt" for
    a suitable cell site. This runs down the battery. I'm sure it
    happens with Verizon (because that's what I use), but apparently, it's
    also a GSM problem. Without a cell site to keep the phone inactive,
    my battery is dead in about 4 hours without ever having made a call.

    >>However, battery operating time deteriorates with
    >>Li-Ion batteries as the battery ages.

    >
    >True, but not very rapidly -- life is on the order of 2-3 years before
    >half capacity is reached, an average degradation of only about 2% per
    >month.


    Nope. It's way more complexicated than that. Deterioration is
    heavily dependent on temperature and state of charge:
    <http://drc.ohiolink.edu/handle/2374.OX/103486>
    <http://www.electrochem.org/dl/ma/202/pdfs/0033.PDF>
    Plenty of others available. Google for "Li-Ion battery capacity fade"
    or capacity loss, deterioration, etc.

    >>Battery life also deteriorates more rapidly if you maintain a Li-Ion
    >>battery at maximum charge, and bake it inside a laptop or heat
    >>generating device. No clue yet how warm the iPad will run. More:
    >><http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm>

    >
    >That's not a terribly accurate source.


    Ahem... Isidor Buchmann is the founder and prez of Cadex, a
    manuafacturer of battery chargers and analyzers. I have one of their
    chargers and it's excellent. He's the author of a book on the subject
    which is generally recognized as authoritative:
    <http://www.buchmann.ca>
    <http://www.buchmann.ca/aboutauthor.asp>

    Incidentally, I have a West Mountain Radio CBA-II battery analyzer:
    <http://www.westmountainradio.com/CBA.htm>
    I've found that battery capacity varies considerably from vendor to
    vendor. Some barely achieve the labelled specifications. Others
    exceed the specs by as much as 75%. Many vary dramatically in
    capacity depending on discharge rate. Never mind user variability,
    there's also large variations in capacity.

    One catch. I can't reliabily test the larger laptop batteries. The
    CBA-II is limited to about 100 watts discharge rate, which is about
    what one of the older wide screen "desktop replacement" laptops burn.

    >>It might also be of interest to know the battery life for the latest
    >>Windoze 7 touch screen laptops is claimed at 3 to 5 hours:
    >><http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9140385/Review_3_Windows_7_touch_screen_laptops>
    >>(4 pages)

    >
    >Battery life varies widely between different machines and between
    >different types of use -- the real world range is much wider than that.


    There are several commercial battery life test suits available. In
    all cases, the laptop initial conditions and test applications are
    carefully defined so that the comparisons are valid. For example:
    <http://reviews.cnet.com/Labs/4520-6603_7-5142378-1.html>
    There are others, but I'm late for lunch.
    Not everyone is happy with the defacto testing methodology:
    <http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/17/why-cant-we-get-an-accurate-battery-life-test-for-laptops/>

    >Case in point is my ThinkPad T61, which gets nearly double the battery
    >life when I carefully configure the power management for maximum battery
    >run time.


    I run my laptops at maximum CPU, maximum brightness, and everything I
    can possibly disable. I want speed, brightness, ease of use, and
    convenience. I fry a laptop battery about every 3 years, which is
    about typical.

    What I *DON'T* do is leave the laptop on charge 24x7 cooking the
    battery inside the laptop. After about 3 years, the battery has
    become sufficiently common that the eBay prices are about $50 or 1/3
    of the cost of an OEM battery. I also have a small collection of
    nearly dead batteries, which are good baking when used with the
    charger running.

    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

  18. #18
    alexd
    Guest

    Re: iPad Study: The More You Know, The Less You Want One

    Meanwhile, at the alt.internet.wireless Job Justification Hearings, Jeff
    Liebermann chose the tried and tested strategy of:

    > Now, if Apple included a printing application with the iPad, it could
    > become a background process, which will be much better. However, I've
    > seen no evidence of such an application on the iPad or iPod Touch yet.


    They bought the developer of a Unix printing framework called CUPS, so that
    sounds like the obvious choice.

    --
    <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (UnSoEsNpEaTm@ale.cx)
    21:37:16 up 6 days, 2:17, 6 users, load average: 0.06, 0.03, 0.00
    DIMENSION-CONTROLLING FORT DOH HAS NOW BEEN DEMOLISHED,
    AND TIME STARTED FLOWING REVERSELY


  19. #19
    Mike Jacoubowsky
    Guest

    Re: iPad Study: The More You Know, The Less You Want One

    "Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
    news:qbt0n5p3q8pbdl23kg0lujhinjhhidvc1s@4ax.com...
    > On Sun, 7 Feb 2010 18:23:09 -0800, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
    > <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
    >
    >>I can assure you that, after Apple's iPad announcement, the
    >>bicycle retail e-list was abuzz regarding the use of tablets as roaming
    >>point-of-sale terminals.

    >
    > Umm... what are you going to do for printing receipts? In the state
    > of Calif, you're required to give a receipt if you charge sales tax.
    > If the iPad is anything like the iPod Touch, printing is handled by
    > 3rd party applications, usually in some bizarre manner. Others will
    > only do photos, not ASCII text. For example:
    > <http://www.hp.com/global/us/en/consumer/digital_photography/free/software/iprint-photo.html>
    > Epson and Canon have similar apps.
    >
    > There's a free test applications for Print Magic which does apparently
    > does ASCII text that's worth trying:
    > <http://wellala.com/printer_test_app>
    >
    > --
    > Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    > 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    > Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
    > Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


    I remember being very surprised that the Apple store could get away with not
    printing receipts when I purchased something, saying they'd email it.
    Without any way of knowing if they'd entered my email correctly (they did).

    Doesn't matter for how we'd use an iPad anyway. I thought I'd mentioned that
    we'd be using them as nothing more than remote terminals. Printing would be
    handled by the host computer.

    --Mike Jacoubowsky
    Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReaction.com
    Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


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