Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 27 of 27

Thread: Performance difference between Linux and PS3

  1. #21
    Rambo
    Guest

    Re: Performance difference between Linux and PS3

    Andrew DeFaria wrote:
    > Rambo wrote:
    >> Andrew DeFaria wrote:
    >>> Jerry W wrote:
    >>>> Damn, what a mess. I'm sure there's a message in there somewhere but
    >>>> damned if I can be bothered to hunt for it.
    >>> Your loss! And I think you know what I mean...
    >>> --
    >>> Andrew DeFaria <http://defaria.com>
    >>> There's no trick to being a humorist when you have the whole
    >>> government working for you. - Will Rogers

    >> Please stop to be arrogant, and read the rules about usenet first ...
    >> before posting in html !

    > Why do you care so much about form and ignore function? If you are
    > having difficulty then get better tools. It's 2009 for crying out loud!
    > I will not do it your suggested way just because you think it's a good
    > idea until and unless you do it my way because I think it's a good idea.
    > You will not change my mind on this so stop trying.


    I know that you are not changing your mind, because you are ...
    a guy who cannot imagine that there are people still connected thru a
    dial-up connection ... you kill their bandwidth ...but you don't care
    .... like a french queen who said: If you don't have bread ... buy a
    pastry ...

  2. #22
    Andrew DeFaria
    Guest

    Re: Performance difference between Linux and PS3

    body { font: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; } p { font: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; } ..standout { font-family: verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; color: #993333; line-height: 13px; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px; } ..code { border-top: 1px solid #ddd; border-left: 1px solid #ddd; border-right: 2px solid #000; border-bottom: 2px solid #000; padding: 10px; margin-top: 5px; margin-left: 5%; margin-right: 5%; background: #ffffea; color: black; -moz-border-radius: 10px; } ..codedark { border-top: 10px solid #03f; border-left: 1px solid #ddd; border-right: 2px solid grey; border-bottom: 2px solid grey; padding: 10px; margin-top: 5px; margin-left: 5%; margin-right: 5%; background: black; color: yellow; -moz-border-radius: 10px; } #code { color: black; font-size: 14px; font-family: courier; padding-left: 5px; } #line-number { color: #804000; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; padding-right: 5px; border-right: 1px dotted #804000; } blockquote[type=cite] { padding: 0em .5em .5em .5em !important; border-right: 2px solid blue !important; border-left: 2px solid blue !important; } blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] { border-right: 2px solid maroon !important; border-left: 2px solid maroon !important; } blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] { border-right: 2px solid teal !important; border-left: 2px solid teal !important; } blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] { border-right: 2px solid purple !important; border-left: 2px solid purple !important; } blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] { border-right: 2px solid green !important; border-left: 2px solid green !important; } AZ Nomad wrote:
    And why be happy with a couple of hundred lines of cruft? Put some cute pictures in the sig line, perhaps a short movie. Cross post to at least seventy other newsgroups. After all, if negative attention is good enough, then getting more of it is an improvement.
    And yet not one of those assumptions is true. Any other **** you want to pull out of your arse?



    --
    Andrew DeFaria
    If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?


  3. #23
    Andrew DeFaria
    Guest

    Re: Performance difference between Linux and PS3

    body { font: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; } p { font: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; } .standout { font-family: verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; color: #993333; line-height: 13px; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px; } .code { border-top: 1px solid #ddd; border-left: 1px solid #ddd; border-right: 2px solid #000; border-bottom: 2px solid #000; padding: 10px; margin-top: 5px; margin-left: 5%; margin-right: 5%; background: #ffffea; color: black; -moz-border-radius: 10px; } .codedark { border-top: 10px solid #03f; border-left: 1px solid #ddd; border-right: 2px solid grey; border-bottom: 2px solid grey; padding: 10px; margin-top: 5px; margin-left: 5%; margin-right: 5%; background: black; color: yellow; -moz-border-radius: 10px; } #code { color: black; font-size: 14px; font-family: courier; padding-left: 5px; } #line-number { color: #804000; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; padding-right: 5px; border-right: 1px dotted #804000; } blockquote[type=cite] { padding: 0em .5em .5em .5em !important; border-right: 2px solid blue !important; border-left: 2px solid blue !important; } blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] { border-right: 2px solid maroon !important; border-left: 2px solid maroon !important; } blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] { border-right: 2px solid teal !important; border-left: 2px solid teal !important; } blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] { border-right: 2px solid purple !important; border-left: 2px solid purple !important; } blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] { border-right: 2px solid green !important; border-left: 2px solid green !important; } Rick Jones wrote: Andrew DeFaria &lt;Andrew@defaria.com&gt; wrote:
    [-- text/plain, encoding 7bit, charset: UTF-8, 232 lines --]
    FWIW, most of the previous mime-encoded stuff wasn't showing-up under tin on the HP-UX 11.11 system on which I read netnews.
    Are you still using tin! My, my! Some habits die hard I guess...
    Might take some packet traces if you can.
    I'm not much of a packet tracer...

    Still, tcpdump can be useful. The most basic would be something like:

    tcpdump -i &lt;interface&gt; -w &lt;file&gt; host &lt;remote hostname&gt;

    which should then snag the first 68 bytes or so of all the packets appearing at &lt;interface&gt; involving &lt;remote hostname&gt; one can then pass that through a command like:

    tcpdump -r &lt;file&gt;

    for very simple post processing, or feed &lt;file&gt; to something like wireshark or tcptrace or the like.
    Remember I'm not a networking guru. I don't understand what I'd be doing that for or rather what I'd be looking for nor how to interpret the data...
    Well when loaded I saw pretty much a 40-70% CPU load on the set of both CPU in the Win 7 VMWare box with neither CPU peaking at
    VMware... virtualization... how fun... Actually it's quite nice...
    is that CPU util being reported on a client OS instance, or from the hypervisor/host/dom0/whatever?
    Well I looked at it from the guest's perspective but the host (my Ubuntu box) was not that loaded either. I don't suspect it's a CPU issue.
    100%. The vendor of Playon (http://mediamall.com) verified through their logs that their software Playon was pumping everything it could down the pipe to the PS3 but the problem was in the connection between the PC and the PS3. I have no tools that I know of to gauge the CPU usage of a PS3. Do you?
    Nope, perhaps folks in a PS3-related group do.
    While I haven't looked extensively yet, I did google around for some tools to run on the PS3. Suffice to say I didn't find much. After all there's no real command line on the PS3, etc. I guess I could install Linux on it but that'd be a hassle and there's not much that Linux can do with a PS3 I hear. I was hoping not to have to go there...
    Not exactly a lot of interesting stats there. As this was (ostensibly) on the receiver, I was hoping to see something about segments received out of order. A little surprising to me that there are as many/more outbound segments as inbound during the test.
    That's because it wasn't the receiver. The receiver would be the PS3. Videos come in from the net and get transcoded on the PC (in my case a Win 7 VM box) and broadcast (UpNP) as a media server that the PS3 picks up. There is no hard wired connection between the PS3 and the PC - that's the WRT54G. I was thinking of buying a wire to rule that out but I suspect I'll see little difference wired.
    Datagrams Received = 737
    No Ports = 0
    Receive Errors = 0
    Datagrams Sent = 157

    UDP datagrams? Really? I thought this was TCP test.
    While the speedtest.net was TCP, my real use of this VMWare PC is to play videos from the net using PlayOn from MediaMall. PlayOn would be using UDP. My test above was of PlayOn failing, not of speedtest.net.
    *) Are there packet drops registered in the stats for the switch(es) being traversed by the transfer? These would be retrieved via switch-specific means.
    I have no idea what you are saying here nor how to provide you with
    info...
    Packets can be dropped many places - somewhere in the cloud between the sender and you, or at the ingress point where you are (eg the device connecting you to your ISP) or on any switches in your own setup, or in the end systems themselves. The broad idea is to check the statistics as many places as you can between sender and receiver. Naturally, when you do not have control over the sender, or the cloud which separates you from the sender, the options become rather limited.
    As I said initially, my connection is roughly like so (ASCII art - you thought visualization was fun!):

    ┬*┬*┬*┬* |
    ┬* ┬*┬* |┬* 1┬* +-------------+┬*┬*┬*┬*┬* +----------+┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬* 2 ┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬* +---------------+
    Wall +-----| Action Tech |┬* 1 ┬* | Linksys┬* |=== &lt;-wireless&gt; ===| Playstation 3 |
    ┬*┬*┬*┬* |┬*┬*┬*┬* |┬* DSL Modem┬*+------| WRT54G┬*┬* |┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬* +-------+-------+
    ┬*┬*┬*┬* |┬*┬*┬*┬* +-------------+┬*┬*┬*┬*┬* +--+---+---+┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬* |3
    ┬*┬*┬*┬* |┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬* |1┬* |1┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬* +---------------+
    ┬*┬*┬*┬* |┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬* +---+┬*┬* +----+┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*|┬* Flat Screen┬* |
    ┬*┬*┬*┬* |┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬* |┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬* |┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬* |┬*┬*┬*┬*┬* TV┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬* |
    ┬*┬*┬*┬* |┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬* ┬*┬* +----+---+┬*┬* +----+----+┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬* +---------------+
    ┬*┬*┬*┬* |┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬* | Ubuntu |┬*┬* | Ubuntu┬* |
    ┬*┬*┬*┬* |┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬* | Server |┬*┬* | Desktop |
    ┬*┬*┬*┬* |┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬*┬* +--------+┬*┬* +---------+

    1: Ethernet wired connection
    2: Wireless connection
    3: HDMI connection

    The Windows 7 VMWare is running on the Ubuntu desktop. I can run speedtest.net from either the Win 7 VM box or the Ubuntu desktop with good download times. The connection goes through the WRT54G then out though the Action Tech no problems. But if I try a speed test from the PS3 I have the slow down. Doesn't that say that the problem is somewhere between the WRT54G and the PS3?

    Note, my normal mode of operation or what I'm trying to achieve is to run PlayOn, as I stated above, which only runs on Windows on the Ubuntu desktop through VMWare (because I don't have a PC running Windows and I don't want to run Windows but have to for PlayOn). PlayOn will suck videos from the Internet, transcode them and rebroadcast via UPNP through the wireless connection to the PS3 where they are viewed on my flat screen in my living room. This use to work - fairly reliably. But now it fails a lot and is sluggish. Initial measurements all point to something bad in the wireless connection. Like I said, I'll try wired but last time I had sluggishness, switching to wired didn't help.

    Before I attempt this, are you suggesting that netperf exists for the PS3?
    No - again, an evolving document :) Having said that, if someone wishes to and knows how to get something that "speaks netperf" running on PS3, I'll be happy to help however I can.
    I suspect I could install Yellow Dog Linux on the PS3 and netperf would be just there. That's a pretty large commitment however that I was hoping to avoid...
    Which is where getting some sort of packet trace showing traffic to/from the PS3 would be helpful. If we can see the connection(s) being established from the PS3 to the remote, we can see what sort of window size it is offering, and also see things like gaps in the traffic indicating packet loss somewhere along the way.
    Given my hopefully clearer description above, I would think that most of the net traffic to and from the PS3 itself would be between the Win 7 VM box on the Ubuntu desktop host to the PS3 and thus all in my LAN. There would also be WAN traffic from the Win 7 VM box to places like Hulu.com.


    --
    Andrew DeFaria
    Love is always bestowed as a gift - freely, willingly and without expectation. We don't love to be loved; we love to love. - Leo Buscaglia


  4. #24
    Andrew DeFaria
    Guest

    Re: Performance difference between Linux and PS3

    body { font: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; } p { font: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; } .standout { font-family: verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; color: #993333; line-height: 13px; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px; } .code { border-top: 1px solid #ddd; border-left: 1px solid #ddd; border-right: 2px solid #000; border-bottom: 2px solid #000; padding: 10px; margin-top: 5px; margin-left: 5%; margin-right: 5%; background: #ffffea; color: black; -moz-border-radius: 10px; } .codedark { border-top: 10px solid #03f; border-left: 1px solid #ddd; border-right: 2px solid grey; border-bottom: 2px solid grey; padding: 10px; margin-top: 5px; margin-left: 5%; margin-right: 5%; background: black; color: yellow; -moz-border-radius: 10px; } #code { color: black; font-size: 14px; font-family: courier; padding-left: 5px; } #line-number { color: #804000; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; padding-right: 5px; border-right: 1px dotted #804000; } blockquote[type=cite] { padding: 0em .5em .5em .5em !important; border-right: 2px solid blue !important; border-left: 2px solid blue !important; } blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] { border-right: 2px solid maroon !important; border-left: 2px solid maroon !important; } blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] { border-right: 2px solid teal !important; border-left: 2px solid teal !important; } blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] { border-right: 2px solid purple !important; border-left: 2px solid purple !important; } blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] { border-right: 2px solid green !important; border-left: 2px solid green !important; } Rambo wrote:
    I know that you are not changing your mind, because you are ...┬* a guy who cannot imagine that there are people still connected thru a dial-up connection ... you kill their bandwidth ...but you don't care ... like a french queen who said: If you don't have bread ... buy a pastry ...
    There will always be people doomed to a less than average existence and experience and I'm not surprised that you're sensitive to that. You must be close to their level. So what. Life moves on. I kill nobody's bandwidth save those who chose to read my post. There's nothing stopping you from moving along and reading the next post. Indeed, if you see the HTML and you hate it so then why do you continue to read on? Ever think of hitting the next key or is your arthritic finger just incapable from performing such actions? No you continue to download my post of your own choosing. And then, in true hypocritical fashion, you will spend many more bytes of bandwidth arguing your egotistical viewpoint than that you claim I'll waste. Brilliant there bucko!

    By your analogy the Amish are probably the odd man out wishing all of this asphalt around ruining their horseshoes would go away and pollution from cars would stop but I bet you don't own a horse nor ride it to work now do you? I'm sure the Amish don't have computers because electricity is wasteful and forbidden by their culture but you do. How dare you kill those poor Amish by using up such energy and increasing your carbon footprint contributing to global warming and all.

    You see your argument of LCD is nothing but a slippery slope, one that you, as the hypocrite you are, chose not to slide down to the bottom. And we all decide how low to go - my level just doesn't agree with yours. Too bad! You're level doesn't agree with mine but you don't hear me complaining. Tolerant you are not but this does not stop you from claiming that I'm the intolerant one. You see I've seen your specious arguments time and time again. They've never been compelling to me.

    Live and let live I say! But apparently you don't.


    --
    Andrew DeFaria
    Show me a man with both feet firmly on the ground, and I'll show you a man who can't get his pants off.


  5. #25
    Rambo
    Guest

    Re: Performance difference between Linux and PS3

    Andrew DeFaria wrote:
    > Rambo wrote:
    >> I know that you are not changing your mind, because you are ... a guy
    >> who cannot imagine that there are people still connected thru a
    >> dial-up connection ... you kill their bandwidth ...but you don't care
    >> ... like a french queen who said: If you don't have bread ... buy a
    >> pastry ...

    > There will always be people doomed to a less than average existence and
    > experience and I'm not surprised that you're sensitive to that. You must
    > be close to their level. So what. Life moves on. I kill nobody's
    > bandwidth save those who chose to read my post. There's nothing stopping
    > you from moving along and reading the next post. Indeed, if you see the
    > HTML and you hate it so then why do you continue to read on? Ever think
    > of hitting the next key or is your arthritic finger just incapable from
    > performing such actions? No you continue to download my post of your own
    > choosing. And then, in true hypocritical fashion, you will spend many
    > more bytes of bandwidth arguing your egotistical viewpoint than that you
    > claim I'll waste. Brilliant there bucko!
    >
    > By your analogy the Amish are probably the odd man out wishing all of
    > this asphalt around ruining their horseshoes would go away and pollution
    > from cars would stop but I bet you don't own a horse nor ride it to work
    > now do you? I'm sure the Amish don't have computers because electricity
    > is wasteful and forbidden by their culture but you do. How dare you kill
    > those poor Amish by using up such energy and increasing your carbon
    > footprint contributing to global warming and all.
    >
    > You see your argument of LCD is nothing but a slippery slope, one that
    > you, as the hypocrite you are, chose not to slide down to the bottom.
    > And we all decide how low to go - my level just doesn't agree with
    > yours. Too bad! You're level doesn't agree with mine but you don't hear
    > me complaining. Tolerant you are not but this does not stop you from
    > claiming that I'm the intolerant one. You see I've seen your specious
    > arguments time and time again. They've never been compelling to me.
    >
    > Live and let live I say! But apparently you don't.


    Yours stupids arguments ... classify yourself in a very poor intellect
    .... PLONK !

  6. #26
    Paul M.
    Guest

    Re: Performance difference between Linux and PS3

    On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 20:48:59 -0700, Andrew DeFaria
    <Andrew@DeFaria.com> wrote:

    ><!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
    ><html>
    ><head>
    > <style type="text/css">
    >body {
    > font: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;
    >}
    >p {
    > font: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;
    >}
    >.standout {
    > font-family: verdana,


    (big html crap snip)

    ></blockquote>
    >There will always be people doomed to a less than average existence and
    >experience and I'm not surprised that you're sensitive to that. You
    >must be close to their level. So what. Life moves on. I kill nobody's
    >bandwidth save those who chose to read my post. There's nothing
    >stopping you from moving along and reading the next post. Indeed, if
    >you see the HTML and you hate it so then why do you continue to read
    >on? Ever think of hitting the next key or is your arthritic finger just
    >incapable from performing such actions? No you continue to download my
    >post of your own choosing. And then, in true hypocritical fashion, you
    >will spend many more bytes of bandwidth arguing your egotistical
    >viewpoint than that you claim I'll waste. Brilliant there bucko!<br>
    ><br>
    >By your analogy the Amish are probably the odd man out wishing all of
    >this asphalt around ruining their horseshoes would go away and
    >pollution from cars would stop but I bet you don't own a horse nor ride
    >it to work now do you? I'm sure the Amish don't have computers because
    >electricity is wasteful and forbidden by their culture but you do. How
    >dare you kill those poor Amish by using up such energy and increasing
    >your carbon footprint contributing to global warming and all.<br>
    ><br>
    >You see your argument of LCD is nothing but a slippery slope, one that
    >you, as the hypocrite you are, chose not to slide down to the bottom.
    >And we all decide how low to go - my level just doesn't agree with
    >yours. Too bad! You're level doesn't agree with mine but you don't hear
    >me complaining. Tolerant you are not but this does not stop you from
    >claiming that I'm the intolerant one. You see I've seen your specious
    >arguments time and time again. They've never been compelling to me.<br>
    ><br>
    >Live and let live I say! But apparently you don't.<br>
    ><div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
    ><a href="http://defaria.com">Andrew DeFaria</a><br>
    ><small><font color="#999999">Show me a man with both feet firmly on the
    >ground, and I'll show you a man who can't get his pants off.</font></small>
    ></div>
    ></body>
    ></html>


    PLONK


  7. #27
    Andrew DeFaria
    Guest

    Re: Performance difference between Linux and PS3

    body { font: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; } p { font: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; } .standout { font-family: verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; color: #993333; line-height: 13px; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px; } .code { border-top: 1px solid #ddd; border-left: 1px solid #ddd; border-right: 2px solid #000; border-bottom: 2px solid #000; padding: 10px; margin-top: 5px; margin-left: 5%; margin-right: 5%; background: #ffffea; color: black; -moz-border-radius: 10px; } .codedark { border-top: 10px solid #03f; border-left: 1px solid #ddd; border-right: 2px solid grey; border-bottom: 2px solid grey; padding: 10px; margin-top: 5px; margin-left: 5%; margin-right: 5%; background: black; color: yellow; -moz-border-radius: 10px; } #code { color: black; font-size: 14px; font-family: courier; padding-left: 5px; } #line-number { color: #804000; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; padding-right: 5px; border-right: 1px dotted #804000; } blockquote[type=cite] { padding: 0em .5em .5em .5em !important; border-right: 2px solid blue !important; border-left: 2px solid blue !important; } blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] { border-right: 2px solid maroon !important; border-left: 2px solid maroon !important; } blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] { border-right: 2px solid teal !important; border-left: 2px solid teal !important; } blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] { border-right: 2px solid purple !important; border-left: 2px solid purple !important; } blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] blockquote[type=cite] { border-right: 2px solid green !important; border-left: 2px solid green !important; } Rambo wrote: Andrew DeFaria wrote:

    Yours stupids arguments "Yours stupids arguments"!?!?┬* ROTFLMAO! That couldn't have been a more classic comeback!!! I understand you couldn't come up with anything so you just bowed out... Funny as **** though!
    ... classify yourself in a very poor intellect ... PLONK !
    Yess, I's classifies myselfs in's a's verys poors intellects fer sures!

    Now gets an educations!


    --
    Andrew DeFaria
    Does fuzzy logic tickle?


Similar Threads

  1. PS3 Playstation 3 - Premium 60 GB, new in box.
    By FunK in forum Marketplace - Buy/Sell/Trade/Hot Deals
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 12-19-06, 09:48 AM
  2. Ps3 and xbox 360
    By pinguinosupremo in forum Console Gaming
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 12-07-06, 12:26 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •