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Thread: 802.11n router recommendations and opinons...?

  1. #1
    Randall
    Guest

    802.11n router recommendations and opinons...?

    I am thinking of getting a 802.11n wireless router. A lot of the
    companies use the Atheros 802.11n chipset and there is some talk that
    they have drop the connection a lot. So I am wondering if anyone has
    any thoughts or recommendations. I might get the Trendnet that was in
    today's Fry's ad. Just beginning to investigate the various 802.11n
    routers.

  2. #2
    LouB
    Guest

    Re: 802.11n router recommendations and opinons...?

    Randall wrote:
    > I am thinking of getting a 802.11n wireless router. A lot of the
    > companies use the Atheros 802.11n chipset and there is some talk that
    > they have drop the connection a lot. So I am wondering if anyone has
    > any thoughts or recommendations. I might get the Trendnet that was in
    > today's Fry's ad. Just beginning to investigate the various 802.11n
    > routers.

    Can you get it from a place with an easy return deal?

  3. #3
    Jeff Liebermann
    Guest

    Re: 802.11n router recommendations and opinons...?

    On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 16:28:28 -0700 (PDT), Randall
    <randall.shimizu@gmail.com> wrote:

    >I am thinking of getting a 802.11n wireless router. A lot of the
    >companies use the Atheros 802.11n chipset and there is some talk that
    >they have drop the connection a lot. So I am wondering if anyone has
    >any thoughts or recommendations. I might get the Trendnet that was in
    >today's Fry's ad. Just beginning to investigate the various 802.11n
    >routers.


    $180 will get you an Apple Aiport Extreme. It's simultaneous dual
    band and 802.11n. I've been playing with one erratically for the last
    week or so (which gets installed tomorrow). It's a bit shy on the
    long range (no external antennas), but works quite well in a
    reflection infested environment (my office). Dropped connections are
    usually caused by interference from other wireless networks, microwave
    ovens, and such. I haven't seen any dropped connections with the
    Airport Extreme yet, and I'm running 3 different wireless routers on
    the same channel (6) at the same time. There's some interaction, but
    no disconnects yet.

    I don't buy anything from Fry's.

    --
    # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
    # 831-336-2558 jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
    # http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
    # http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

  4. #4
    danny burstein
    Guest

    Re: 802.11n router recommendations and opinons...?

    In <nohdu4l0kbr6gavlpfcip2102stiu19e5h@4ax.com> Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> writes:

    >$180 will get you an Apple Aiport Extreme. It's simultaneous dual
    >band and 802.11n.


    It also, at least per the written specs, allows you
    to set up "guest access", where the folk on that stream
    don't see your side.

    But one thing it seems to be missing is a QOS setting
    for VOIP phones. you didn't happen to run into
    that capability, perchance?

    --
    _____________________________________________________
    Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
    dannyb@panix.com
    [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

  5. #5
    Jeff Liebermann
    Guest

    Re: 802.11n router recommendations and opinons...?

    On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 13:45:44 +0000 (UTC), danny burstein
    <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:

    >In <nohdu4l0kbr6gavlpfcip2102stiu19e5h@4ax.com> Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> writes:
    >
    >>$180 will get you an Apple Aiport Extreme. It's simultaneous dual
    >>band and 802.11n.

    >
    >It also, at least per the written specs, allows you
    >to set up "guest access", where the folk on that stream
    >don't see your side.


    Yep. Very handy. Also available on the cheapo My Essentials (Belkin)
    wireless router.

    >But one thing it seems to be missing is a QOS setting
    >for VOIP phones. you didn't happen to run into
    >that capability, perchance?


    Nope. No QoS on the Airport Extreme. I would be a no brainer as it's
    rumored to be OS/X based firmware. Bummer.

    Possible band-aid for QoS:
    <http://www.hawkingtech.com/products/productlist.php?CatID=36&FamID=80&ProdID=216>
    <http://practicallynetworked.com/review_prnt.asp?pid=618>
    $30 (used) to $70 new. Old technology, but easily found online. I
    haven't tried one (yet).

    --
    # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
    # 831-336-2558 jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
    # http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
    # http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

  6. #6
    LR
    Guest

    Re: 802.11n router recommendations and opinons...?

    On 16/04/2009 06:54, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    > On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 16:28:28 -0700 (PDT), Randall
    > <randall.shimizu@gmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >> I am thinking of getting a 802.11n wireless router. A lot of the
    >> companies use the Atheros 802.11n chipset and there is some talk that
    >> they have drop the connection a lot. So I am wondering if anyone has
    >> any thoughts or recommendations. I might get the Trendnet that was in
    >> today's Fry's ad. Just beginning to investigate the various 802.11n
    >> routers.

    >
    > $180 will get you an Apple Aiport Extreme. It's simultaneous dual
    > band and 802.11n. I've been playing with one erratically for the last
    > week or so (which gets installed tomorrow). It's a bit shy on the
    > long range (no external antennas), but works quite well in a
    > reflection infested environment (my office). Dropped connections are
    > usually caused by interference from other wireless networks, microwave
    > ovens, and such. I haven't seen any dropped connections with the
    > Airport Extreme yet, and I'm running 3 different wireless routers on
    > the same channel (6) at the same time. There's some interaction, but
    > no disconnects yet.
    >
    > I don't buy anything from Fry's.
    >

    Have you tried it with an external USB Hard Drive yet? I have been
    looking at a few reviews and noticed this on CNET:-
    "We didn't get to try the print-serving feature, but we found that the
    router's support for USB external hard drives was rather limited. It
    doesn't read drives formatted in the NTFS file system, but only FAT32
    and Mac OS Extended. Generally it's more difficult to format a drive
    larger than 32GB using FAT32. This means Windows users can't simply plug
    most of their USB external hard drives into the router and expect to
    share the data contained on it. If you are willing to reformat your hard
    drive, you'll need to use a computer to do so, as the router doesn't
    include the formatting feature."
    <http://reviews.cnet.com/wireless-access-points/apple-airport-extreme-base/4505-3265_7-33549749.html?tag=txt%3bpage>



  7. #7
    Jeff Liebermann
    Guest

    Re: 802.11n router recommendations and opinons...?

    On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 07:18:59 +0100, LR <lrme@privacy.net> wrote:

    >Have you tried it with an external USB Hard Drive yet?


    Yep. Works fine with my Western Dismal 320GB USB drive:
    <http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=391>
    which is FAT32 formatted. However, a SimpleTech 330GB USB drive
    didn't work because of NTFS formatting. Apple knows about the issue.
    Apparently, it's intentional:
    <http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/06/wd-pumps-out-my-passport-for-mac-my-book-mac-edition/>
    where vendors are expected to deliver PC only and Mac only drives.

    I've been told that it's not terribly difficult to reformat external
    USB drives to FAT32, NTFS, HFS+, EFS, or whatever is deemed useful.

    I did have a problem with a Seagate Free Agent | Go drive:
    <http://freeagent.seagate.com/en-us/hard-drive/Free-Agent.html>
    The drive comes with two USB cables. One cable has two USB plugs in
    order to get more power to run the drive. That's not a problem with
    the 250GB version, but the 500GB version would sometimes fail to start
    if powered from only one USB plug. The problem is that the Airport
    Extreme only has one USB jack on the rear panel.



    --
    # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
    # 831-336-2558 jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
    # http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
    # http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

  8. #8
    LR
    Guest

    Re: 802.11n router recommendations and opinons...?

    Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    > On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 07:18:59 +0100, LR <lrme@privacy.net> wrote:
    >
    >> Have you tried it with an external USB Hard Drive yet?

    >
    > Yep. Works fine with my Western Dismal 320GB USB drive:
    > <http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=391>
    > which is FAT32 formatted. However, a SimpleTech 330GB USB drive
    > didn't work because of NTFS formatting. Apple knows about the issue.
    > Apparently, it's intentional:
    > <http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/06/wd-pumps-out-my-passport-for-mac-my-book-mac-edition/>
    > where vendors are expected to deliver PC only and Mac only drives.
    >
    > I've been told that it's not terribly difficult to reformat external
    > USB drives to FAT32, NTFS, HFS+, EFS, or whatever is deemed useful.
    >
    > I did have a problem with a Seagate Free Agent | Go drive:
    > <http://freeagent.seagate.com/en-us/hard-drive/Free-Agent.html>
    > The drive comes with two USB cables. One cable has two USB plugs in
    > order to get more power to run the drive. That's not a problem with
    > the 250GB version, but the 500GB version would sometimes fail to start
    > if powered from only one USB plug. The problem is that the Airport
    > Extreme only has one USB jack on the rear panel.
    >
    >
    >

    Thanks. That means we would have to continue using our nas drives for
    our mixed linux windows network and just use our usb drive as a portable
    drive.

  9. #9
    Jeff Liebermann
    Guest

    Re: 802.11n router recommendations and opinons...?

    On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 06:54:32 +0100, LR <lrme@privacy.net> wrote:

    >Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    >> On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 07:18:59 +0100, LR <lrme@privacy.net> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Have you tried it with an external USB Hard Drive yet?

    >>
    >> Yep. Works fine with my Western Dismal 320GB USB drive:
    >> <http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=391>
    >> which is FAT32 formatted. However, a SimpleTech 330GB USB drive
    >> didn't work because of NTFS formatting. Apple knows about the issue.
    >> Apparently, it's intentional:
    >> <http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/06/wd-pumps-out-my-passport-for-mac-my-book-mac-edition/>
    >> where vendors are expected to deliver PC only and Mac only drives.
    >>
    >> I've been told that it's not terribly difficult to reformat external
    >> USB drives to FAT32, NTFS, HFS+, EFS, or whatever is deemed useful.
    >>
    >> I did have a problem with a Seagate Free Agent | Go drive:
    >> <http://freeagent.seagate.com/en-us/hard-drive/Free-Agent.html>
    >> The drive comes with two USB cables. One cable has two USB plugs in
    >> order to get more power to run the drive. That's not a problem with
    >> the 250GB version, but the 500GB version would sometimes fail to start
    >> if powered from only one USB plug. The problem is that the Airport
    >> Extreme only has one USB jack on the rear panel.


    >Thanks. That means we would have to continue using our nas drives for
    >our mixed linux windows network and just use our usb drive as a portable
    > drive.


    A bit more...

    I had kinda hoped that the Airport Extreme base station would support
    802.11e (WMM or Wi-Fi MultiMedia) but doesn't. I've been playing with
    it on a Buffalo WHR-HP-G54 router running DD-WRT v24 SP1 at a crowded
    hot spot. WMM divides apps by background, best effort, video, and
    voice. I have SIP and Skype setup for the highest voice priority (and
    file sharing set for background). It seems to work well for what
    seems to be a deluge of Ipod Touch PDA's running Skype.

    Note that WMM does not mean that priority packets get sent before
    non-priority packets. It simply means that the backoff time, and
    other delaying mechanisms are shorter for priority packets and that
    they have a better probability of being sent first.

    I forgot to mention that the Seagate Free Agent Go drive didn't work
    with the Airport Extreme even after I connected the 2nd USB connector
    to a 5V USB power supply. I thought I was doing something wrong, but
    later determined that it didn't work because it was formatted for
    NTFS.

    FAT32 versus NTFS is apparently a never ending debate. In general,
    NTFS is a much better filesystem for anyting over 8GB. FAT32 uses
    very large cluster sizes, which allegedly wastes considerable
    diskspace. If you have a large number of files, the large cluster
    size will cause considerable waste. In addition, the OS had to read
    the empty space, which slows things down. Such wasted space is NOT an
    issue when dealing with big files, such as my usual backup images.
    These are typically split into 2GB chunks and are 6 to 40GB per
    machine. These fill up the drive quickly, but there's little waste
    because there are only a few files.

    I've also been playing with NAS drives. My favorite (this week) is a
    Buffalo Linkstation Live LS-CH500L. About $200. Lots of goodies and
    features I'll probably never use, but are fun to play with:
    <http://www.buffalotech.com/products/network-storage/linkstation/linkstation-live-ls-chl/>
    Gigabit ethernet, SATA, and a big cache are a must. Be sure to
    upgrade the firmware to the latest. I don't see any reason to attach
    the storage to wireless router. It's handy, but for performance (i.e.
    massive backups), the ethernet to USB2 transition constitutes a 50%
    slow down.


    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

  10. #10
    LR
    Guest

    Re: 802.11n router recommendations and opinons...?

    On 18/04/2009 20:43, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    > On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 06:54:32 +0100, LR<lrme@privacy.net> wrote:
    >
    >> Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    >>> On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 07:18:59 +0100, LR<lrme@privacy.net> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Have you tried it with an external USB Hard Drive yet?
    >>> Yep. Works fine with my Western Dismal 320GB USB drive:
    >>> <http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=391>
    >>> which is FAT32 formatted. However, a SimpleTech 330GB USB drive
    >>> didn't work because of NTFS formatting. Apple knows about the issue.
    >>> Apparently, it's intentional:
    >>> <http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/06/wd-pumps-out-my-passport-for-mac-my-book-mac-edition/>
    >>> where vendors are expected to deliver PC only and Mac only drives.
    >>>
    >>> I've been told that it's not terribly difficult to reformat external
    >>> USB drives to FAT32, NTFS, HFS+, EFS, or whatever is deemed useful.
    >>>
    >>> I did have a problem with a Seagate Free Agent | Go drive:
    >>> <http://freeagent.seagate.com/en-us/hard-drive/Free-Agent.html>
    >>> The drive comes with two USB cables. One cable has two USB plugs in
    >>> order to get more power to run the drive. That's not a problem with
    >>> the 250GB version, but the 500GB version would sometimes fail to start
    >>> if powered from only one USB plug. The problem is that the Airport
    >>> Extreme only has one USB jack on the rear panel.

    >
    >> Thanks. That means we would have to continue using our nas drives for
    >> our mixed linux windows network and just use our usb drive as a portable
    >> drive.

    >
    > A bit more...
    >
    > I had kinda hoped that the Airport Extreme base station would support
    > 802.11e (WMM or Wi-Fi MultiMedia) but doesn't. I've been playing with
    > it on a Buffalo WHR-HP-G54 router running DD-WRT v24 SP1 at a crowded
    > hot spot. WMM divides apps by background, best effort, video, and
    > voice. I have SIP and Skype setup for the highest voice priority (and
    > file sharing set for background). It seems to work well for what
    > seems to be a deluge of Ipod Touch PDA's running Skype.
    >
    > Note that WMM does not mean that priority packets get sent before
    > non-priority packets. It simply means that the backoff time, and
    > other delaying mechanisms are shorter for priority packets and that
    > they have a better probability of being sent first.
    >
    > I forgot to mention that the Seagate Free Agent Go drive didn't work
    > with the Airport Extreme even after I connected the 2nd USB connector
    > to a 5V USB power supply. I thought I was doing something wrong, but
    > later determined that it didn't work because it was formatted for
    > NTFS.
    >
    > FAT32 versus NTFS is apparently a never ending debate. In general,
    > NTFS is a much better filesystem for anyting over 8GB. FAT32 uses
    > very large cluster sizes, which allegedly wastes considerable
    > diskspace. If you have a large number of files, the large cluster
    > size will cause considerable waste. In addition, the OS had to read
    > the empty space, which slows things down. Such wasted space is NOT an
    > issue when dealing with big files, such as my usual backup images.
    > These are typically split into 2GB chunks and are 6 to 40GB per
    > machine. These fill up the drive quickly, but there's little waste
    > because there are only a few files.
    >
    > I've also been playing with NAS drives. My favorite (this week) is a
    > Buffalo Linkstation Live LS-CH500L. About $200. Lots of goodies and
    > features I'll probably never use, but are fun to play with:
    > <http://www.buffalotech.com/products/network-storage/linkstation/linkstation-live-ls-chl/>
    > Gigabit ethernet, SATA, and a big cache are a must. Be sure to
    > upgrade the firmware to the latest. I don't see any reason to attach
    > the storage to wireless router. It's handy, but for performance (i.e.
    > massive backups), the ethernet to USB2 transition constitutes a 50%
    > slow down.
    >
    >

    We have been using a couple of freecom 500GB drives
    <http://www.freecom.com/ecproduct_detail.asp?ID=3402&CatID=&sCatID=>
    which we use as storage for up to six people rather than system backups
    and I was hoping I could either use one of these on the USB port or use
    our portable USB drive as I don't wish to add a switch to the network,
    having only 3 ethernet ports is annoying. We have recently been given a
    320GB USB drive which now contains backup's for the windows machines
    <http://www.goclickfree.com/products_portablebackup.php>
    but I haven't had a good play with it yet.



  11. #11
    Jeff Liebermann
    Guest

    Re: 802.11n router recommendations and opinons...?

    On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 07:45:14 +0100, LR <lrme@privacy.net> wrote:

    >We have been using a couple of freecom 500GB drives
    ><http://www.freecom.com/ecproduct_detail.asp?ID=3402&CatID=&sCatID=>
    >which we use as storage for up to six people rather than system backups


    It's "only" 100Mbits/sec on the ethernet port. The SATA drive is
    probably 3Gbits/sec. With a gigabit interface, you can go much
    faster. I've been benchmarking my backups and simply copies across
    the network. In my never humble opinion, gigabit ethernet is a
    definite requirement.

    Ummm... don't forget to backup your backup. I use two NAS boxes. The
    2nd box is replicated from the first. I haven't found anything I like
    yet. I'm doing compressed image backups of the main NAS server, but
    have not found any software or company that makes me feel safe.

    >and I was hoping I could either use one of these on the USB port or use
    >our portable USB drive as I don't wish to add a switch to the network,
    >having only 3 ethernet ports is annoying.


    Add the switch but remember that the bottleneck will be the
    100Mbit/sec ethernet at the NAS drive. If all your traffic shares a
    common cable or port, it's a bottleneck.

    >We have recently been given a
    >320GB USB drive which now contains backup's for the windows machines
    ><http://www.goclickfree.com/products_portablebackup.php>
    >but I haven't had a good play with it yet.


    Nothing wonderful about those drives. I can't tell if they're FAT32
    or NTFS. The latest fad in backups is to backup by file type. Most
    vendors have added that feature. For example, the Arcsoft TotalBackup
    software that came with the Simpletech drive will do that:
    <http://www.arcsoft.com/products/totalmediabackup/>
    The catch is that most of these products are totally useless for
    backing up the entire drive and getting literally everything. That's
    what I want. I want to be able to restore a machine to its original
    condition without missing anything. Sure, I have to deal with big
    bloated files and useless garbage, but that's the price of image
    backups. Besides getting everything, image backups are also much
    faster than file by file. One image backup program I've bought and
    tried 1.5GBytes/minute to a USB2 drive.




    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

  12. #12
    George
    Guest

    Re: 802.11n router recommendations and opinons...?

    Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    > On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 07:45:14 +0100, LR <lrme@privacy.net> wrote:
    >
    >> We have been using a couple of freecom 500GB drives
    >> <http://www.freecom.com/ecproduct_detail.asp?ID=3402&CatID=&sCatID=>
    >> which we use as storage for up to six people rather than system backups

    >
    > It's "only" 100Mbits/sec on the ethernet port. The SATA drive is
    > probably 3Gbits/sec. With a gigabit interface, you can go much
    > faster. I've been benchmarking my backups and simply copies across
    > the network. In my never humble opinion, gigabit ethernet is a
    > definite requirement.
    >
    > Ummm... don't forget to backup your backup. I use two NAS boxes. The
    > 2nd box is replicated from the first. I haven't found anything I like
    > yet. I'm doing compressed image backups of the main NAS server, but
    > have not found any software or company that makes me feel safe.
    >
    >> and I was hoping I could either use one of these on the USB port or use
    >> our portable USB drive as I don't wish to add a switch to the network,
    >> having only 3 ethernet ports is annoying.

    >
    > Add the switch but remember that the bottleneck will be the
    > 100Mbit/sec ethernet at the NAS drive. If all your traffic shares a
    > common cable or port, it's a bottleneck.
    >
    >> We have recently been given a
    >> 320GB USB drive which now contains backup's for the windows machines
    >> <http://www.goclickfree.com/products_portablebackup.php>
    >> but I haven't had a good play with it yet.

    >
    > Nothing wonderful about those drives. I can't tell if they're FAT32
    > or NTFS. The latest fad in backups is to backup by file type. Most
    > vendors have added that feature. For example, the Arcsoft TotalBackup
    > software that came with the Simpletech drive will do that:
    > <http://www.arcsoft.com/products/totalmediabackup/>
    > The catch is that most of these products are totally useless for
    > backing up the entire drive and getting literally everything. That's
    > what I want. I want to be able to restore a machine to its original
    > condition without missing anything. Sure, I have to deal with big
    > bloated files and useless garbage, but that's the price of image
    > backups. Besides getting everything, image backups are also much
    > faster than file by file. One image backup program I've bought and
    > tried 1.5GBytes/minute to a USB2 drive.
    >
    >
    >
    >

    I like the Acronis TI products for that.

  13. #13
    Jeff Liebermann
    Guest

    Re: 802.11n router recommendations and opinons...?

    On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 18:13:29 -0400, George <george@nospam.invalid>
    wrote:

    >I like the Acronis TI products for that.


    Why do you like it? Much as I value everyone's opinions, they're
    kinda useless without the attendent testimonials.

    I tried Acronis image backup about 2 years ago and had the same
    problem I had with every other image backup program that backs up
    while Windoze is running. Files that change during the backup appear
    on the image as corrupted garbage. What inspired my recent search for
    the one true backup solution was having two important hard disk drives
    fail after a relatively short running period (2 years).

    In one case, I had run a DVD backup using Farstone DriveClone 5.1:
    <http://www.farstone.com>
    back in Dec 2008. I just noticed that this product isn't offered on
    their web site any more (it was last week). When I restored from the
    backup, I received a boot error which indicated that the registry was
    corrupted. No problem as I was able to restore it from backups I made
    using ERUNT. However, there were a variety of other file corruptions
    that pointed to other open programs and files were also corrupted.
    Support was totally useless and could only answer my questions with
    more questions. To add to the confusion, the machine would not boot
    the XP CD or recovery console. Both resulted in a blue screen and a
    stop 0x0000007B error. The failed SATA drive was a Samsung, while the
    replacement was a Western Dismal. After much Googling (and 4 days of
    worrying), I discovered that I had to disable AHCI IDE emulation to
    get the Western Digital drive to work.

    A week later, another drive died (Maxtor 80GB SATA). For this
    adventure, I used DriveClone Express 6.0. This one did NOT run from
    Windoze but booted from a CD or USB flash drive. No open file
    corruption. It worked much better until I had to backup a failing
    hard disk. Drive Clone Express 6.0 would proceed until it hit a CRC
    error, and quit with an Error 0x17. My email to support (no phone
    support) asking for a list of errors and how to bypass a CRC error
    were answered with "run chkdsk /f /r". In addition, their built in
    chkdsk feature returned "invalid argument" if I checked the /F box.
    Nothing like customer debugged software. I quickly switched back to
    Norton Ghost 2003 (floppy disk boot) but the drive died in the middle
    of the backup. By pure luck, all was not lost. The customer had a 2
    month old backup on his SimpleTech backup drive using Arcsoft
    TotalMedia Backup. I reinstalled Windoze XP, updated, restored from
    the backup, and then spent the next 3 days untangling the mess. It
    was great for restoring the user files, but useless for system files.
    Fortunately, the really important files all came back. I also had to
    do it twice because I mis-spelled the user name. Yet another backup
    program that runs from Windoze that doesn't work quite right.

    I note that Acronis True Image:
    <http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage/>
    offers:
    Live Backups
    Keep working right through your backup for maximum convenience.
    which in my never humble opinion, is an invitation to a repeat
    performance of my aforementioned backup horror stories.

    So, now you have what I consider to be typical problems with backup
    software. Back in about 2002, I tried using Acronis backup at a local
    ISP. I forgot the exact details but I have correspondence log
    somewhere that details a long and disgusting horror story. $500 and
    many hours wasted trying to make that mess work.

    I'll probably try Acronis True Image 2009 and try to break it. I have
    a few drives with CRC error floating around the office. At least I
    know some of the impending problems. However, it will have to wait. I
    have to deliver the restored machines and I'm out of diskspace on my
    assortment of USB drives because I've been furiously backing up
    everything in sight. I'm also headed for a colonoscopy on Weds, which
    is a good excuse for a few days off.

    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

  14. #14
    lapimate
    Guest

    Re: 802.11n router recommendations and opinons...?


    "Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
    news:nohdu4l0kbr6gavlpfcip2102stiu19e5h@4ax.com...
    .... > $180 will get you an Apple Aiport Extreme. It's simultaneous dual
    band and 802.11n. ...

    The comments related to Apple Aiport Extreme A1143 in this item might be of
    interest: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp...&TopicId=25053



  15. #15
    George
    Guest

    Re: 802.11n router recommendations and opinons...?

    Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    > On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 18:13:29 -0400, George <george@nospam.invalid>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> I like the Acronis TI products for that.

    >
    > Why do you like it? Much as I value everyone's opinions, they're
    > kinda useless without the attendent testimonials.



    Trying to image a running machine always makes me wonder if I got a good
    snapshot. Assuming Windows boxes then with TI it all depends on your
    apps being VSS aware. A few years back they just weren't ready for prime
    time. What I used to do previously was boot up on the recovery CD. Then
    you were really sure nothing was open or uncommitted.

    >
    > I tried Acronis image backup about 2 years ago and had the same
    > problem I had with every other image backup program that backs up
    > while Windoze is running. Files that change during the backup appear
    > on the image as corrupted garbage. What inspired my recent search for
    > the one true backup solution was having two important hard disk drives
    > fail after a relatively short running period (2 years).
    >
    > In one case, I had run a DVD backup using Farstone DriveClone 5.1:
    > <http://www.farstone.com>
    > back in Dec 2008. I just noticed that this product isn't offered on
    > their web site any more (it was last week). When I restored from the
    > backup, I received a boot error which indicated that the registry was
    > corrupted. No problem as I was able to restore it from backups I made
    > using ERUNT. However, there were a variety of other file corruptions
    > that pointed to other open programs and files were also corrupted.
    > Support was totally useless and could only answer my questions with
    > more questions. To add to the confusion, the machine would not boot
    > the XP CD or recovery console. Both resulted in a blue screen and a
    > stop 0x0000007B error. The failed SATA drive was a Samsung, while the
    > replacement was a Western Dismal. After much Googling (and 4 days of
    > worrying), I discovered that I had to disable AHCI IDE emulation to
    > get the Western Digital drive to work.
    >
    > A week later, another drive died (Maxtor 80GB SATA). For this
    > adventure, I used DriveClone Express 6.0. This one did NOT run from
    > Windoze but booted from a CD or USB flash drive. No open file
    > corruption. It worked much better until I had to backup a failing
    > hard disk. Drive Clone Express 6.0 would proceed until it hit a CRC
    > error, and quit with an Error 0x17. My email to support (no phone
    > support) asking for a list of errors and how to bypass a CRC error
    > were answered with "run chkdsk /f /r". In addition, their built in
    > chkdsk feature returned "invalid argument" if I checked the /F box.
    > Nothing like customer debugged software. I quickly switched back to
    > Norton Ghost 2003 (floppy disk boot) but the drive died in the middle
    > of the backup. By pure luck, all was not lost. The customer had a 2
    > month old backup on his SimpleTech backup drive using Arcsoft
    > TotalMedia Backup. I reinstalled Windoze XP, updated, restored from
    > the backup, and then spent the next 3 days untangling the mess. It
    > was great for restoring the user files, but useless for system files.
    > Fortunately, the really important files all came back. I also had to
    > do it twice because I mis-spelled the user name. Yet another backup
    > program that runs from Windoze that doesn't work quite right.
    >
    > I note that Acronis True Image:
    > <http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage/>
    > offers:
    > Live Backups
    > Keep working right through your backup for maximum convenience.
    > which in my never humble opinion, is an invitation to a repeat
    > performance of my aforementioned backup horror stories.
    >
    > So, now you have what I consider to be typical problems with backup
    > software. Back in about 2002, I tried using Acronis backup at a local
    > ISP. I forgot the exact details but I have correspondence log
    > somewhere that details a long and disgusting horror story. $500 and
    > many hours wasted trying to make that mess work.



    >
    > I'll probably try Acronis True Image 2009 and try to break it. I have
    > a few drives with CRC error floating around the office. At least I
    > know some of the impending problems. However, it will have to wait. I
    > have to deliver the restored machines and I'm out of diskspace on my
    > assortment of USB drives because I've been furiously backing up
    > everything in sight. I'm also headed for a colonoscopy on Weds, which
    > is a good excuse for a few days off.
    >


  16. #16
    Jeff Liebermann
    Guest

    Re: 802.11n router recommendations and opinons...?

    On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 09:51:47 -0400, George <george@nospam.invalid>
    wrote:

    >Trying to image a running machine always makes me wonder if I got a good
    >snapshot.


    One of the problems with image backups is that it's difficult to do a
    file by file verify. Sure, it's possible to run a checksum on the
    entire image file (or files), but that won't tell you which file has
    changed. The means you'll might end up with an unrestorable image
    mess, like I did. Incidentally, note that the vendor (Farstone) no
    longer offers the failed product on their web pile. This should be a
    clue.

    >Assuming Windows boxes then with TI it all depends on your
    >apps being VSS aware.


    It wasn't the apps that were a problem. I was paranoid enough to
    reboot the computer and make sure as little as possible was running. I
    wanted speed, so running the backup in safe mode was undesireable. So,
    I had Skype, AVG 8.5, Google Desktop, and various startup programs
    (Winamp, AOL, Superantispyware, etc). All of these were trashed on
    the backup, in addition to the Windoze services that were running
    (print spooler, networking, Windoze update, etc). Simply having apps
    that know about Volume Shadow Copy Service, would not have been
    sufficient.

    >A few years back they just weren't ready for prime
    >time. What I used to do previously was boot up on the recovery CD. Then
    >you were really sure nothing was open or uncommitted.


    Ummm... fire up the task manager and look at the huge list of programs
    running in the background. All of them (and their data and log files)
    are susceptible to corruption. At this point, I'm abandoning my quest
    for a program that runs from Windoze, and only looking at programs
    that boot from a CD or flash drive.

    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

  17. #17
    George
    Guest

    Re: 802.11n router recommendations and opinons...?

    Jeff Liebermann wrote:

    >
    > Ummm... fire up the task manager and look at the huge list of programs
    > running in the background. All of them (and their data and log files)
    > are susceptible to corruption. At this point, I'm abandoning my quest
    > for a program that runs from Windoze, and only looking at programs
    > that boot from a CD or flash drive.
    >

    I should have said minimal stuff was open. I haven't had any issues
    imaging such systems or any that are VSS aware.

    TI will build a some flavor Linux bootable recovery CD of itself and
    they also have a plugin for Bart PE.

  18. #18
    Peter Pan
    Guest

    Re: 802.11n router recommendations and opinons...?


    "Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
    news:4m7pu4dou8ugql4kjm9kr4e37l3ot709q2@4ax.com...

    >
    > Ummm... fire up the task manager and look at the huge list of programs
    > running in the background. All of them (and their data and log files)
    > are susceptible to corruption. At this point, I'm abandoning my quest
    > for a program that runs from Windoze, and only looking at programs
    > that boot from a CD or flash drive.
    >


    you may want to take a gander at this....
    from http://www.acronis.com/support/kb/ar...388/index.html

    Starting Acronis Product from USB Flash Drive

    > --
    > Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    > 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    > Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
    > Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558



  19. #19
    Jeff Liebermann
    Guest

    Re: 802.11n router recommendations and opinons...?

    On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 15:35:25 -0400, "Peter Pan"
    <pponvistaNOSPAM@MarcAlanNOSPAM.Info> wrote:

    >"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
    >news:4m7pu4dou8ugql4kjm9kr4e37l3ot709q2@4ax.com...
    >
    >>
    >> Ummm... fire up the task manager and look at the huge list of programs
    >> running in the background. All of them (and their data and log files)
    >> are susceptible to corruption. At this point, I'm abandoning my quest
    >> for a program that runs from Windoze, and only looking at programs
    >> that boot from a CD or flash drive.


    >you may want to take a gander at this....
    >from http://www.acronis.com/support/kb/ar...388/index.html
    >
    >Starting Acronis Product from USB Flash Drive


    Ihe instructions for creating the USB boot drive at:
    <http://www.acronis.com/r/support/en/kb/388/flash.html>
    indicate that it's for
    * Windows Vista
    * Windows Server 2008
    Actually, the DISKPART program is available for XP:
    <http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=300415>
    If the flash drive boot works, it eliminates my major objection to
    backing up from a running system. Thanks.... I'll give it a try.

    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

  20. #20
    Peter Pan
    Guest

    Re: 802.11n router recommendations and opinons...?


    "Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
    news:04qqu4h0lnq97hq3fbku2nm7c5h2ec5d58@4ax.com...
    > On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 15:35:25 -0400, "Peter Pan"
    > <pponvistaNOSPAM@MarcAlanNOSPAM.Info> wrote:
    >
    >>"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
    >>news:4m7pu4dou8ugql4kjm9kr4e37l3ot709q2@4ax.com...
    >>
    >>>
    >>> Ummm... fire up the task manager and look at the huge list of programs
    >>> running in the background. All of them (and their data and log files)
    >>> are susceptible to corruption. At this point, I'm abandoning my quest
    >>> for a program that runs from Windoze, and only looking at programs
    >>> that boot from a CD or flash drive.

    >
    >>you may want to take a gander at this....
    >>from http://www.acronis.com/support/kb/ar...388/index.html
    >>
    >>Starting Acronis Product from USB Flash Drive

    >
    > Ihe instructions for creating the USB boot drive at:
    > <http://www.acronis.com/r/support/en/kb/388/flash.html>
    > indicate that it's for
    > * Windows Vista
    > * Windows Server 2008
    > Actually, the DISKPART program is available for XP:
    > <http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=300415>
    > If the flash drive boot works, it eliminates my major objection to
    > backing up from a running system. Thanks.... I'll give it a try.
    >
    > --
    > Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    > 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    > Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
    > Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


    something i found useful for me at least on a bunch of different systems
    (had it on a flash drive for a while, ran real slow, but found a more
    usefull way), i have a few 500gb-1tb external usb drives, that both boots,
    and has acronis on it (also burned a few boot cd's with acronis, for the
    systems that don't boot from usb)... just plug it in, boot from the usb
    drive/backup/reboot- back to whatever the machine had, and move on to the
    next machine.. tested to make sure i could boot/restore with it also...
    should deal with backing up a running sytem, since it isn't running on it's
    own, but runs lickity split at usb speeds unlike the flash drive at flash
    drive speeds

    haven't tried it on one laptop with linux, not sure what i'm gonna do with
    that one... any ideas?


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