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Thread: Do you agree with an Army deployment of soldiers in Alabama after shooting spree?

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    Maneater JawZ's Avatar
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    Do you agree with an Army deployment of soldiers in Alabama after shooting spree?



    U.S. Army soldiers from Ft. Rucker patrol the downtown area of Samson, Alabama after a shooting spree March 10, 2009. At least 10 people including the suspected gunman and his mother were killed in the shooting spree and car chase in southern Alabama on Tuesday, authorities said.

    Posse Comitatus aside.....

    ...formerly the omnipotent UOD

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    Dr Tweak mnosteele52's Avatar
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    Absolutely, it is a very small town and they obviously don't have the resources (enough Police, Fire & EMS) to handle a situation such as this. Ten people being shot is a mass casualty incident and would even have a city such as the one I work in to call for mutual aid. They have an Army base near by then by all means use the resources available to you.

    Why would you even ask such a question?


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    Imperial Impotentate brembo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnosteele52 View Post
    Absolutely, it is a very small town and they obviously don't have the resources (enough Police, Fire & EMS) to handle a situation such as this. Ten people being shot is a mass casualty incident and would even have a city such as the one I work in to call for mutual aid. They have an Army base near by then by all means use the resources available to you.

    Why would you even ask such a question?

    Problem here though. US Army troops are soldiers. Soldiers do not receive copious amounts of training to avoid possible civil right infringements, or at least as much as a police officer does.

    A soldier has no legal authority to tell you "return home" or "turn around" except in matters of national security (nukes, WMD and the like) or when yer on federal land.

    I'm pretty much re-hashing Posse Comatatus here, but the important points of PC are VERY important. Civil liberty kinda important.
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    Junior Member MadDoctor's Avatar
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    Looks like those guys are military police.
    People will forget what you said... and people will forget what you did... but people will never forget how you made them feel.

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    Maneater JawZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadDoctor View Post
    Looks like those guys are military police.
    They were outfitted with police vests, part of the SOP. I'm waiting to find out what the ROE brief contained.

    ...formerly the omnipotent UOD

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    Dr Tweak mnosteele52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brembo View Post
    Problem here though. US Army troops are soldiers. Soldiers do not receive copious amounts of training to avoid possible civil right infringements, or at least as much as a police officer does.

    A soldier has no legal authority to tell you "return home" or "turn around" except in matters of national security (nukes, WMD and the like) or when yer on federal land.

    I'm pretty much re-hashing Posse Comatatus here, but the important points of PC are VERY important. Civil liberty kinda important.
    I don't think it matters in a situation such as this, for this town this was a State of Emergency and you utilize whatever resources you have until you can restore law and order and the local police can take over.

    Think about it, this is a town of just over 2,000 and 10 people were killed in a shooting spree, that is a massive event for any size jurisdiction.


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    ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ downhill's Avatar
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    mnosteele, while I don't disagree with your assessment of the situation, brembo is correct imho.

    Posse Comatatus? Exactly. It what states have their own National Guard for.

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    Dr Tweak mnosteele52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by downhill View Post
    mnosteele, while I don't disagree with your assessment of the situation, brembo is correct imho.

    Posse Comatatus? Exactly. It what states have their own National Guard for.
    It's obvious you guys aren't in the Emergency Services field.

    I don't want to "Monday morning quarterback" the situation but put yourself in the local Police's shoes for a minute. You have 10 people murdered and someone driving around town shooting and killing people. They have a population of a little over 2,000 people so they most likely have Barney Fife and Andy Taylor as their law enforcement and I don't even want to think how primitive their Fire/EMS system is, volunteer based for sure. You have a situation such as this and you use whatever means you have to control the situation to protect and serve the general public. The local Army base is likely the closest/quickest thing they could do until the Feds, State PD or National Guard can assist. As I said, you guys aren't in this field and need to understand you have to make decisions in seconds that mean life or death. I could be wrong but I think you guys are reading way too much into this. The general public (us) always wants to undermine the decisions made by officials in these cases but until you have actually been faced with making these types of decisions then you shouldn't judge. Trust me, I have been involved in some pretty serious situations during my 18 year Professional Fire Dept career and the average citizen has absolutely no understanding of how/why we do what we do.


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    SG Enthusiast OSULLY's Avatar
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    I suppose they were deputized in some strange manner to make it look like it was legal.
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    SG Enthusiast Leatherneck's Avatar
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    The Corps (as well s the others services I'm sure) started non-lethal, urban training a long time a go and are indeed well versed in "police" situations more than ever. If they happen to be using Military Police then they have even more training. While I hope never to see Martial Law in all it's glory anywhere in the US, I don't think this situation should be cause for alarm at all.
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    SG Enthusiast OSULLY's Avatar
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    With out knowing more its even possible they were patroling base property. Outside of that its so wrong as to make my stomache curdle.
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    Getting the public used to seeing military used this way, seems it's working. Just scare people enough.

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    Ohh Hell yeah.. Sava700's Avatar
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    I just can't believe there was nobody armed besides police when this guy was going around to shot back... You read about this crap everyday so I'm packing now..i'll be damned if I get killed without shooting back!

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    Moderator David's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JawZ View Post
    Posse Comitatus aside.....
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

    Spot on.

    Hell_Yes

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    SG Enthusiast Far-N-Wide's Avatar
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    The military needs the experience in these matters as much as any law enforcement agency. I'm sure this cost the small town nothing but asking for some help from the Army Base.

    Why have all that man power if you can't use it in the local area when most of those soldier live. Anyways historically, the military will send it's folks out to aid in disasters areas, floods, hurricanes ect... you all watch TV right, so this is nothing new or dangerous.

    Troops are briefed on what they can and can not do. So no alarms there, I think it's flipping fantastic that the military can give back to the community whenever possible. Worry if you must but worry about what would have happened if they were not there. I'm sure the shooting spree would have ended on it's own if left unchecked. Besides, Bubah would have ran out of beer or ammo at some point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Far-N-Wide View Post
    The military needs the experience in these matters as much as any law enforcement agency. I'm sure this cost the small town nothing but asking for some help from the Army Base.

    Why have all that man power if you can't use it in the local area when most of those soldier live. Anyways historically, the military will send it's folks out to aid in disasters areas, floods, hurricanes ect... you all watch TV right, so this is nothing new or dangerous.

    Troops are briefed on what they can and can not do. So no alarms there, I think it's flipping fantastic that the military can give back to the community whenever possible. Worry if you must but worry about what would have happened if they were not there. I'm sure the shooting spree would have ended on it's own if left unchecked. Besides, Bubah would have ran out of beer or ammo at some point.
    I give up. People like you will be the ones still agreeing with the government even as you're loaded into a ****ing cattle car.

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    ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ downhill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Far-N-Wide View Post
    The military needs the experience in these matters as much as any law enforcement agency. I'm sure this cost the small town nothing but asking for some help from the Army Base.

    Why have all that man power if you can't use it in the local area when most of those soldier live. Anyways historically, the military will send it's folks out to aid in disasters areas, floods, hurricanes ect... you all watch TV right, so this is nothing new or dangerous.

    Troops are briefed on what they can and can not do. So no alarms there, I think it's flipping fantastic that the military can give back to the community whenever possible. Worry if you must but worry about what would have happened if they were not there. I'm sure the shooting spree would have ended on it's own if left unchecked. Besides, Bubah would have ran out of beer or ammo at some point.

    Tell me, Far...what are our national guard troops for?

    Secondly, what does Posse Comitatus mean to you? Just something to sweep under the rug when it's inconvenient?

  18. #18
    Advanced Member SlyOneDoofy's Avatar
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    I don't post on here much but.......I agree with Burke!
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    Dr Tweak mnosteele52's Avatar
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    I really don't understand you guys. You somehow twist a tragedy that called for resources to be deployed that were way beyond the capabilities of local authorities into some type of "the government is abusing their powers and controlling us again" type of thing.



    You would be the same people that would have complained if more people were killed you would question why didn't they call for assistance from the Army when they had a base close by. Extreme circumstances calls for extreme measures. With you guys your damned if you do and damned if you don't there is no pleasing you.


  20. #20
    SG Enthusiast koldchillah's Avatar
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    I don't get it. I thought the killer took his own life? Case closed.. Everyone can go home now.

    Regardless of whether it's the police or not, what are they out patrolling the streets for if the suspect is dead? Show of force to warn the next psychopath? Is copy-cat mass murder THAT popular?

    The only valid reason I can see for such paranoia is because the police and/or military know something about this incident that the public doesn't know and therefore excessive show of force is the only way to protect the public from the "other" danger that is still at large.

    I wonder if the army has a timetable for withdrawal yet. lol
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