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Thread: PIR interfering with wireless network

  1. #1
    Peter Hucker
    Guest

    PIR interfering with wireless network

    We have a wireless network at work which appears to have gone downhill since the workmen installed PIRs for the burglar alarm. One of them in particular appears to cause dropped packets the closer a laptop is to it. Is this possible?? It's not a wireless PIR as far as I know, as I can see some leftover cable he was using which is a multicore (about 10 cores) type similar to phone systems, so I assume this is for the signal aswell as power. The person in that office swears blind that there were absolutely no problems until the PIR was installed above her desk, and now when I check, about 60% of the packets are being dropped. Moving her laptop to the opposite side of the room it drops only 5% of packets. PIRs used to just pick up infrared of your bodyheat, but I think now they are also motion sensors? Perhaps this means they are sending out a signal and bouncing it off you? Perhaps this could interfere with wireless networking?

    --
    http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?

  2. #2
    Les Cargill
    Guest

    Re: PIR interfering with wireless network

    Peter Hucker wrote:
    > We have a wireless network at work which appears to have gone downhill since the workmen installed PIRs for the burglar alarm. One of them in particular appears to cause dropped packets the closer a laptop is to it. Is this possible?? It's not a wireless PIR as far as I know, as I can see some leftover cable he was using which is a multicore (about 10 cores) type similar to phone systems, so I assume this is for the signal aswell as power. The person in that office swears blind that there were absolutely no problems until the PIR was installed above her desk, and now when I check, about 60% of the packets are being dropped. Moving her laptop to the opposite side of the room it drops only 5% of packets. PIRs used to just pick up infrared of your bodyheat, but I think now they are also motion sensors? Perhaps this means they are sending out a signal and bouncing it off you? Perhaps this could interfere with wireless networking?
    >


    Doesn't your news client word wrap?

    The PIR are probably motion sensors running in the 2.4GHz
    band. You may be able to change channels on your wireless
    network to get around it, but to know what's up, you need
    somebody with a spectrum analyzer to measure what the PIRs are
    putting out. Or you can power the PIRs down and up,
    and see of packet loss goes away.

    You may also be able to get to instrumentation on the wireless
    NIC she uses, or on the base station/hub/router. Vanilla
    WRT54G firmware doesn't offer much in the way of instrumentation
    but DD-WRT does.

    Such is life in an unlicensed band.... sure the boxes
    are cute when you pick 'em up at Best Buy, but when
    things go wrong...

    --
    Les Cargill


  3. #3
    Peter Hucker
    Guest

    Re: PIR interfering with wireless network

    On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 19:20:17 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:

    > Peter Hucker wrote:
    >> We have a wireless network at work which appears to have gone downhill since the workmen installed PIRs for the burglar alarm. One of them in particular appears to cause dropped packets the closer a laptop is to it. Is this possible?? It's not a wireless PIR as far as I know, as I can see some leftover cable he was using which is a multicore (about 10 cores) type similar to phone systems, so I assume this is for the signal aswell as power. The person in that office swears blind that there were absolutely no problems until the PIR was installed above her desk, and now when I check, about 60% of the packets are being dropped. Moving her laptop to the opposite side of the room it drops only 5% of packets. PIRs used to just pick up infrared of your bodyheat, but I think now they are also motion sensors? Perhaps this means they are sending out a signal and bouncing it off you? Perhaps this could interfere with wireless networking?
    >>

    >
    > Doesn't your news client word wrap?


    Doesn't yours? I can't predict what width your screen is.

    > The PIR are probably motion sensors running in the 2.4GHz
    > band.


    As in 2.4GHz for detection? Or for communicating with the alarm system? I'm pretty sure they're cabled in.

    > You may be able to change channels on your wireless
    > network to get around it, but to know what's up, you need
    > somebody with a spectrum analyzer to measure what the PIRs are
    > putting out. Or you can power the PIRs down and up,
    > and see of packet loss goes away.


    I don't know anyone with an analyzer, and I assume they are quite expensive.

    I'll get them to switch the blasted thing off, it's easy to see if there is still a problem, pinging something on the network repeatedly from a laptop on wireless in the offending room causes a lot of lost packets, and those that do go through are often delayed by up to a second. Moving away from that room I get 1-2ms consistently.

    > You may also be able to get to instrumentation on the wireless
    > NIC she uses, or on the base station/hub/router. Vanilla
    > WRT54G firmware doesn't offer much in the way of instrumentation
    > but DD-WRT does.


    The software on her laptop shows signal and noise levels. The signal is very high and the noise is very low. Same levels as it always has been, and same levels as in rooms without the problem.

    > Such is life in an unlicensed band.... sure the boxes
    > are cute when you pick 'em up at Best Buy, but when
    > things go wrong...


    I did notice that occasionally the NIC picks up a signal on channel 11 with ID "MARVEL-??" (I've forgotten the last two characters) I thought it was a nearby house as I've picked those up before, but it was a full strength signal and the houses are a fair distance awy, usually giving a very weak signal. Is it possible the NIC would mistake the signal from the PIR as a network signal?? Funny thing is it's not always there. It only appeared about 10% of the time I was testing things. Also that would mean to me that the PIR was operating on channel 11, so the access point I put on channel 6 shouldn't have been affected?

    --
    http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

    Women like silent men, they think they're listening.

  4. #4
    Les Cargill
    Guest

    Re: PIR interfering with wireless network

    Peter Hucker wrote:
    > On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 19:20:17 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
    >
    >> Peter Hucker wrote:
    >>> We have a wireless network at work which appears to have gone downhill since the workmen installed PIRs for the burglar alarm. One of them in particular appears to cause dropped packets the closer a laptop is to it. Is this possible?? It's not a wireless PIR as far as I know, as I can see some leftover cable he was using which is a multicore (about 10 cores) type similar to phone systems, so I assume this is for the signal aswell as power. The person in that office swears blind that there were absolutely no problems until the PIR was installed above her desk, and now when I check, about 60% of the packets are being dropped. Moving her laptop to the opposite side of the room it drops only 5% of packets. PIRs used to just pick up infrared of your bodyheat, but I think now they are also motion sensors? Perhaps this means they are sending out a signal and bouncing it off you? Perhaps this could interfere with wireless networking?
    >>>

    >> Doesn't your news client word wrap?

    >
    > Doesn't yours? I can't predict what width your screen is.
    >


    <newsreader pedantry mode on> :)

    A lot of news clients will word wrap before sending, and
    there are ( believe it or not ) standards. 60 chars
    is pretty common. Or you could line break things manually -
    Microsoft can't write a text box, apparently....

    I'm pretty sure you can't see it like I see it, hence
    the comment. It was all one long line...

    >> The PIR are probably motion sensors running in the 2.4GHz
    >> band.

    >
    > As in 2.4GHz for detection? Or for communicating with the alarm system? I'm pretty sure they're cabled in.
    >


    Detection.

    >> You may be able to change channels on your wireless
    >> network to get around it, but to know what's up, you need
    >> somebody with a spectrum analyzer to measure what the PIRs are
    >> putting out. Or you can power the PIRs down and up,
    >> and see of packet loss goes away.

    >
    > I don't know anyone with an analyzer, and I assume they are quite expensive.
    >


    Maybe. Rental isn't much. It might provide you with an idea
    of which 802.11 channel to switch to.

    http://www.testequip.com/sale/categories/01J.html

    You kinda have to know what you're doing with 'em.

    > I'll get them to switch the blasted thing off, it's easy to see if there is still a problem, pinging something on the network repeatedly from a laptop on wireless in the offending room causes a lot of lost packets, and those that do go through are often delayed by up to a second. Moving away from that room I get 1-2ms consistently.
    >


    Might work.

    >> You may also be able to get to instrumentation on the wireless
    >> NIC she uses, or on the base station/hub/router. Vanilla
    >> WRT54G firmware doesn't offer much in the way of instrumentation
    >> but DD-WRT does.

    >
    > The software on her laptop shows signal and noise levels. The signal is very high and the noise is very low. Same levels as it always has been, and same levels as in rooms without the problem.
    >


    Seems to be of little use in this case, then....

    >> Such is life in an unlicensed band.... sure the boxes
    >> are cute when you pick 'em up at Best Buy, but when
    >> things go wrong...

    >
    > I did notice that occasionally the NIC picks up a signal on channel 11 with ID "MARVEL-??" (I've forgotten the last two characters) I thought it was a nearby house as I've picked those up before, but it was a full strength signal and the houses are a fair distance awy, usually giving a very weak signal. Is it possible the NIC would mistake the signal from the PIR as a network signal?? Funny thing is it's not always there. It only appeared about 10% of the time I was testing things. Also that would mean to me that the PIR was operating on channel 11, so the access point I put on channel 6 shouldn't have been affected?
    >


    "ID" meaning SSID?

    MARVELL is a semiconductor maker who makes NICs, if
    that's even relevant. I don't know enough sitting here
    to predict how these things will interact.

    If all else fails, string cable. If you think you
    have somebody attaching to your wireless AP,
    change encryption keys and/or to WPA2.


    --
    Les Cargill

  5. #5
    Peter Hucker
    Guest

    Re: PIR interfering with wireless network

    On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 21:00:31 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:

    > Peter Hucker wrote:
    >> On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 19:20:17 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Peter Hucker wrote:
    >>>> We have a wireless network at work which appears to have gone downhill since the workmen installed PIRs for the burglar alarm. One of them in particular appears to cause dropped packets the closer a laptop is to it. Is this possible?? It's not a wireless PIR as far as I know, as I can see some leftover cable he was using which is a multicore (about 10 cores) type similar to phone systems, so I assume this is for the signal aswell as power. The person in that office swears blind that there were absolutely no problems until the PIR was installed above her desk, and now when I check, about 60% of the packets are being dropped. Moving her laptop to the opposite side of the room it drops only 5% of packets. PIRs used to just pick up infrared of your bodyheat, but I think now they are also motion sensors? Perhaps this means they are sending out a signal and bouncing it off you? Perhaps this could interfere with wireless networking?
    >>>>
    >>> Doesn't your news client word wrap?

    >>
    >> Doesn't yours? I can't predict what width your screen is.
    >>

    >
    > <newsreader pedantry mode on> :)


    Pedants are abundant in newsgroups.....

    > A lot of news clients will word wrap before sending, and
    > there are ( believe it or not ) standards.


    Old old standards. When we had green screen monitors and used DOS.

    > 60 chars is pretty common.


    My monitor (only 20") displays about 150 chars (and I've got a column on the left for the group list). Having a white space is irritating.

    > Or you could line break things manually -
    > Microsoft can't write a text box, apparently....


    A text box? And what's MS to do with it? I'm not posting with a MS newsreader.

    > I'm pretty sure you can't see it like I see it, hence
    > the comment. It was all one long line...


    Why doesn't yours wrap to your window, like any word processor, or even notepad!

    >>> The PIR are probably motion sensors running in the 2.4GHz
    >>> band.

    >>
    >> As in 2.4GHz for detection? Or for communicating with the alarm system? I'm pretty sure they're cabled in.
    >>

    >
    > Detection.


    Then why use a frequency that iis used for communications, and is quite likely to be used in offices! If it's just sending it and picking it up again in the same room, it could use ANY frequency!!!

    >>> You may be able to change channels on your wireless
    >>> network to get around it, but to know what's up, you need
    >>> somebody with a spectrum analyzer to measure what the PIRs are
    >>> putting out. Or you can power the PIRs down and up,
    >>> and see of packet loss goes away.

    >>
    >> I don't know anyone with an analyzer, and I assume they are quite expensive.

    >
    > Maybe. Rental isn't much. It might provide you with an idea
    > of which 802.11 channel to switch to.
    >
    > http://www.testequip.com/sale/categories/01J.html
    >
    > You kinda have to know what you're doing with 'em.


    I'll get the contractors to pay :-)

    >> I'll get them to switch the blasted thing off, it's easy to see if there is still a problem, pinging something on the network repeatedly from a laptop on wireless in the offending room causes a lot of lost packets, and those that do go through are often delayed by up to a second. Moving away from that room I get 1-2ms consistently.
    >>

    >
    > Might work.
    >
    >>> You may also be able to get to instrumentation on the wireless
    >>> NIC she uses, or on the base station/hub/router. Vanilla
    >>> WRT54G firmware doesn't offer much in the way of instrumentation
    >>> but DD-WRT does.

    >>
    >> The software on her laptop shows signal and noise levels. The signal is very high and the noise is very low. Same levels as it always has been, and same levels as in rooms without the problem.
    >>

    >
    > Seems to be of little use in this case, then....


    It must be thinking the signal from the PIR is a signal and not noise? Hmmm....

    >>> Such is life in an unlicensed band.... sure the boxes
    >>> are cute when you pick 'em up at Best Buy, but when
    >>> things go wrong...

    >>
    >> I did notice that occasionally the NIC picks up a signal on channel 11 with ID "MARVEL-??" (I've forgotten the last two characters) I thought it was a nearby house as I've picked those up before, but it was a full strength signal and the houses are a fair distance awy, usually giving a very weak signal. Is it possible the NIC would mistake the signal from the PIR as a network signal?? Funny thing is it's not always there. It only appeared about 10% of the time I was testing things. Also that would mean to me that the PIR was operating on channel 11, so the access point I put on channel 6 shouldn't have been affected?
    >>

    >
    > "ID" meaning SSID?


    That's the one! I couldn't think of the acronym offhand.

    > MARVELL is a semiconductor maker who makes NICs, if
    > that's even relevant. I don't know enough sitting here
    > to predict how these things will interact.


    In that case it's presumably somebody's WAP. But quite why it was showing full signal strength I don't know. There are no buildings close enough to have that strength, and everything in our building is not labelled Marvel. Someone's mobile??? Some of them use wireless G nowadays?

    > If all else fails, string cable. If you think you
    > have somebody attaching to your wireless AP,
    > change encryption keys and/or to WPA2.


    I don't think anyone's using the network, although someone else may be trying to make a network and interfering with it.

    --
    http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

    ,-. ,.---'''^\ O
    { \ ,__\,---'''''`-., O O
    I \ K`,'^ _ `'. o
    \ ,.J..-'` // (O) ,,X, o
    / (_ (( ~ ,;:''` o
    / ,.X'., \\ ':;;;:
    (_../ -._ ,'`
    K.=,;.__ /^~/___..'`
    / /`
    ~~~

  6. #6
    Les Cargill
    Guest

    Re: PIR interfering with wireless network

    Peter Hucker wrote:
    > On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 21:00:31 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
    >
    >> Peter Hucker wrote:
    >>> On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 19:20:17 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
    >>>>> We have a wireless network at work which appears to have gone downhill since the workmen installed PIRs for the burglar alarm. One of them in particular appears to cause dropped packets the closer a laptop is to it. Is this possible?? It's not a wireless PIR as far as I know, as I can see some leftover cable he was using which is a multicore (about 10 cores) type similar to phone systems, so I assume this is for the signal aswell as power. The person in that office swears blind that there were absolutely no problems until the PIR was installed above her desk, and now when I check, about 60% of the packets are being dropped. Moving her laptop to the opposite side of the room it drops only 5% of packets. PIRs used to just pick up infrared of your bodyheat, but I think now they are also motion sensors? Perhaps this means they are sending out a signal and bouncing it off you? Perhaps this could interfere with wireless networking?
    >>>>>
    >>>> Doesn't your news client word wrap?
    >>> Doesn't yours? I can't predict what width your screen is.
    >>>

    >> <newsreader pedantry mode on> :)

    >
    > Pedants are abundant in newsgroups.....
    >
    >> A lot of news clients will word wrap before sending, and
    >> there are ( believe it or not ) standards.

    >
    > Old old standards. When we had green screen monitors and used DOS.
    >
    >> 60 chars is pretty common.

    >
    > My monitor (only 20") displays about 150 chars (and I've got a column on the left for the group list). Having a white space is irritating.
    >
    >> Or you could line break things manually -
    >> Microsoft can't write a text box, apparently....

    >
    > A text box? And what's MS to do with it? I'm not posting with a MS newsreader.
    >
    >> I'm pretty sure you can't see it like I see it, hence
    >> the comment. It was all one long line...

    >
    > Why doesn't yours wrap to your window, like any word processor, or even notepad!
    >


    Mine wraps them in the reader window, but does not
    wrap them in the reply window unless they have
    line breaks in them. I'm using SeaMonkey ( aka
    Firefox ). You're using Opera, which I bet has a
    line-wrap setting or two.

    Again, I am not complaining per se, simply
    pointing something out that you probably can't see
    from your frame of reference.

    >>>> The PIR are probably motion sensors running in the 2.4GHz
    >>>> band.
    >>> As in 2.4GHz for detection? Or for communicating with the alarm system? I'm pretty sure they're cabled in.
    >>>

    >> Detection.

    >
    > Then why use a frequency that iis used for communications, and is quite likely to be used in offices! If it's just sending it and picking it up again in the same room, it could use ANY frequency!!!
    >


    The frequency is for whatever use you use it for. It just
    won't work well if you use the same frequencies for two
    different things.

    >>>> You may be able to change channels on your wireless
    >>>> network to get around it, but to know what's up, you need
    >>>> somebody with a spectrum analyzer to measure what the PIRs are
    >>>> putting out. Or you can power the PIRs down and up,
    >>>> and see of packet loss goes away.
    >>> I don't know anyone with an analyzer, and I assume they are quite expensive.

    >> Maybe. Rental isn't much. It might provide you with an idea
    >> of which 802.11 channel to switch to.
    >>
    >> http://www.testequip.com/sale/categories/01J.html
    >>
    >> You kinda have to know what you're doing with 'em.

    >
    > I'll get the contractors to pay :-)
    >


    Check with 'em. It might be worth investigating what
    the PIR modules actually do - I just know that
    motion detectors will often use the 3.4GHz band...

    >>> I'll get them to switch the blasted thing off, it's easy to see if there is still a problem, pinging something on the network repeatedly from a laptop on wireless in the offending room causes a lot of lost packets, and those that do go through are often delayed by up to a second. Moving away from that room I get 1-2ms consistently.
    >>>

    >> Might work.
    >>
    >>>> You may also be able to get to instrumentation on the wireless
    >>>> NIC she uses, or on the base station/hub/router. Vanilla
    >>>> WRT54G firmware doesn't offer much in the way of instrumentation
    >>>> but DD-WRT does.
    >>> The software on her laptop shows signal and noise levels. The signal is very high and the noise is very low. Same levels as it always has been, and same levels as in rooms without the problem.
    >>>

    >> Seems to be of little use in this case, then....

    >
    > It must be thinking the signal from the PIR is a signal and not noise? Hmmm....
    >


    Don't know. May just be an SWR meter...

    >>>> Such is life in an unlicensed band.... sure the boxes
    >>>> are cute when you pick 'em up at Best Buy, but when
    >>>> things go wrong...
    >>> I did notice that occasionally the NIC picks up a signal on channel 11 with ID "MARVEL-??" (I've forgotten the last two characters) I thought it was a nearby house as I've picked those up before, but it was a full strength signal and the houses are a fair distance awy, usually giving a very weak signal. Is it possible the NIC would mistake the signal from the PIR as a network signal?? Funny thing is it's not always there. It only appeared about 10% of the time I was testing things. Also that would mean to me that the PIR was operating on channel 11, so the access point I put on channel 6 shouldn't have been affected?
    >>>

    >> "ID" meaning SSID?

    >
    > That's the one! I couldn't think of the acronym offhand.
    >


    Ah.

    >> MARVELL is a semiconductor maker who makes NICs, if
    >> that's even relevant. I don't know enough sitting here
    >> to predict how these things will interact.

    >
    > In that case it's presumably somebody's WAP. But quite why it was showing full signal strength I don't know. There are no buildings close enough to have that strength, and everything in our building is not labelled Marvel. Someone's mobile??? Some of them use wireless G nowadays?
    >


    It's probably somebody else's WAP.

    >> If all else fails, string cable. If you think you
    >> have somebody attaching to your wireless AP,
    >> change encryption keys and/or to WPA2.

    >
    > I don't think anyone's using the network, although someone else may be trying to make a network and interfering with it.
    >


    --
    Les Cargill

  7. #7
    Peter Hucker
    Guest

    Re: PIR interfering with wireless network

    On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 22:19:17 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:

    > Peter Hucker wrote:
    >> On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 21:00:31 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Peter Hucker wrote:
    >>>> On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 19:20:17 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
    >>>>>> We have a wireless network at work which appears to have gone downhill since the workmen installed PIRs for the burglar alarm. One of them in particular appears to cause dropped packets the closer a laptop is to it. Is this possible?? It's not a wireless PIR as far as I know, as I can see some leftover cable he was using which is a multicore (about 10 cores) type similar to phone systems, so I assume this is for the signal aswell as power. The person in that office swears blind that there were absolutely no problems until the PIR was installed above her desk, and now when I check, about 60% of the packets are being dropped. Moving her laptop to the opposite side of the room it drops only 5% of packets. PIRs used to just pick up infrared of your bodyheat, but I think now they are also motion sensors? Perhaps this means they are sending out a signal and bouncing it off you? Perhaps this could interfere with wireless networking?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>> Doesn't your news client word wrap?
    >>>> Doesn't yours? I can't predict what width your screen is.
    >>>>
    >>> <newsreader pedantry mode on> :)

    >>
    >> Pedants are abundant in newsgroups.....
    >>
    >>> A lot of news clients will word wrap before sending, and
    >>> there are ( believe it or not ) standards.

    >>
    >> Old old standards. When we had green screen monitors and used DOS.
    >>
    >>> 60 chars is pretty common.

    >>
    >> My monitor (only 20") displays about 150 chars (and I've got a column on the left for the group list). Having a white space is irritating.
    >>
    >>> Or you could line break things manually -
    >>> Microsoft can't write a text box, apparently....

    >>
    >> A text box? And what's MS to do with it? I'm not posting with a MS newsreader.
    >>
    >>> I'm pretty sure you can't see it like I see it, hence
    >>> the comment. It was all one long line...

    >>
    >> Why doesn't yours wrap to your window, like any word processor, or even notepad!
    >>

    >
    > Mine wraps them in the reader window, but does not
    > wrap them in the reply window unless they have
    > line breaks in them. I'm using SeaMonkey ( aka
    > Firefox ).


    That's weird to wrap in one and not the other.

    > You're using Opera, which I bet has a
    > line-wrap setting or two.


    It does, but I've set it to "off". Well it's not actually off, it's "format flowed" which is a standard, but it seems at least one of our newsreaders isn't sticking to properly.

    > Again, I am not complaining per se, simply
    > pointing something out that you probably can't see
    > from your frame of reference.


    People grumble about it occasionally. If I set it to wrap, we get orphaned lines everywhere (usually when people are using Outhouse Distress, which wraps to the same 72 chars even when quoting, so after a few indents, a word falls off the end of every line).

    >>>>> The PIR are probably motion sensors running in the 2.4GHz
    >>>>> band.
    >>>> As in 2.4GHz for detection? Or for communicating with the alarm system? I'm pretty sure they're cabled in.
    >>>>
    >>> Detection.

    >>
    >> Then why use a frequency that iis used for communications, and is quite likely to be used in offices! If it's just sending it and picking it up again in the same room, it could use ANY frequency!!!

    >
    > The frequency is for whatever use you use it for. It just
    > won't work well if you use the same frequencies for two
    > different things.


    You'd think they'd pick something that isn't in common use indoors. 2.4 is used for all sorts, mobile phones too?

    >>>> I'll get them to switch the blasted thing off, it's easy to see if there is still a problem, pinging something on the network repeatedly from a laptop on wireless in the offending room causes a lot of lost packets, and those that do go through are often delayed by up to a second. Moving away from that room I get 1-2ms consistently.
    >>>>
    >>> Might work.
    >>>
    >>>>> You may also be able to get to instrumentation on the wireless
    >>>>> NIC she uses, or on the base station/hub/router. Vanilla
    >>>>> WRT54G firmware doesn't offer much in the way of instrumentation
    >>>>> but DD-WRT does.
    >>>> The software on her laptop shows signal and noise levels. The signal is very high and the noise is very low. Same levels as it always has been, and same levels as in rooms without the problem.
    >>>>
    >>> Seems to be of little use in this case, then....

    >>
    >> It must be thinking the signal from the PIR is a signal and not noise? Hmmm....

    >
    > Don't know. May just be an SWR meter...


    How is that any use? (I'm assuming you mean "standing wave ratio").

    >>> MARVELL is a semiconductor maker who makes NICs, if
    >>> that's even relevant. I don't know enough sitting here
    >>> to predict how these things will interact.

    >>
    >> In that case it's presumably somebody's WAP. But quite why it was showing full signal strength I don't know. There are no buildings close enough to have that strength, and everything in our building is not labelled Marvel. Someone's mobile??? Some of them use wireless G nowadays?

    >
    > It's probably somebody else's WAP.


    Full strength doesn't make sense though. Nearest house is 100 metres away. I can't think why someone would be transmitting in our building. Unless a mobile phone????


    --
    http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

    Are you into casual sex, or should I dress up?

  8. #8
    Les Cargill
    Guest

    Re: PIR interfering with wireless network

    Peter Hucker wrote:
    > On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 22:19:17 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
    >
    >> Peter Hucker wrote:
    >>> On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 21:00:31 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
    >>>>> On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 19:20:17 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
    >>>>>>> We have a wireless network at work which appears to have gone downhill since the workmen installed PIRs for the burglar alarm. One of them in particular appears to cause dropped packets the closer a laptop is to it. Is this possible?? It's not a wireless PIR as far as I know, as I can see some leftover cable he was using which is a multicore (about 10 cores) type similar to phone systems, so I assume this is for the signal aswell as power. The person in that office swears blind that there were absolutely no problems until the PIR was installed above her desk, and now when I check, about 60% of the packets are being dropped. Moving her laptop to the opposite side of the room it drops only 5% of packets. PIRs used to just pick up infrared of your bodyheat, but I think now they are also motion sensors? Perhaps this means they are sending out a signal and bouncing it off you? Perhaps this could interfere with wireless networking?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>> Doesn't your news client word wrap?
    >>>>> Doesn't yours? I can't predict what width your screen is.
    >>>>>
    >>>> <newsreader pedantry mode on> :)
    >>> Pedants are abundant in newsgroups.....
    >>>
    >>>> A lot of news clients will word wrap before sending, and
    >>>> there are ( believe it or not ) standards.
    >>> Old old standards. When we had green screen monitors and used DOS.
    >>>
    >>>> 60 chars is pretty common.
    >>> My monitor (only 20") displays about 150 chars (and I've got a column on the left for the group list). Having a white space is irritating.
    >>>
    >>>> Or you could line break things manually -
    >>>> Microsoft can't write a text box, apparently....
    >>> A text box? And what's MS to do with it? I'm not posting with a MS newsreader.
    >>>
    >>>> I'm pretty sure you can't see it like I see it, hence
    >>>> the comment. It was all one long line...
    >>> Why doesn't yours wrap to your window, like any word processor, or even notepad!
    >>>

    >> Mine wraps them in the reader window, but does not
    >> wrap them in the reply window unless they have
    >> line breaks in them. I'm using SeaMonkey ( aka
    >> Firefox ).

    >
    > That's weird to wrap in one and not the other.
    >
    >> You're using Opera, which I bet has a
    >> line-wrap setting or two.

    >
    > It does, but I've set it to "off". Well it's not actually off, it's "format flowed" which is a standard, but it seems at least one of our newsreaders isn't sticking to properly.
    >
    >> Again, I am not complaining per se, simply
    >> pointing something out that you probably can't see
    >> from your frame of reference.

    >
    > People grumble about it occasionally. If I set it to wrap, we get orphaned lines everywhere (usually when people are using Outhouse Distress, which wraps to the same 72 chars even when quoting, so after a few indents, a word falls off the end of every line).
    >


    Yup; weird. Dunno if it helps or not.

    >>>>>> The PIR are probably motion sensors running in the 2.4GHz
    >>>>>> band.
    >>>>> As in 2.4GHz for detection? Or for communicating with the alarm system? I'm pretty sure they're cabled in.
    >>>>>
    >>>> Detection.
    >>> Then why use a frequency that iis used for communications, and is quite likely to be used in offices! If it's just sending it and picking it up again in the same room, it could use ANY frequency!!!

    >> The frequency is for whatever use you use it for. It just
    >> won't work well if you use the same frequencies for two
    >> different things.

    >
    > You'd think they'd pick something that isn't in common use indoors. 2.4 is used for all sorts, mobile phones too?
    >


    They have limited choices for emissions in unlicensed bands.

    >>>>> I'll get them to switch the blasted thing off, it's easy to see if there is still a problem, pinging something on the network repeatedly from a laptop on wireless in the offending room causes a lot of lost packets, and those that do go through are often delayed by up to a second. Moving away from that room I get 1-2ms consistently.
    >>>>>
    >>>> Might work.
    >>>>
    >>>>>> You may also be able to get to instrumentation on the wireless
    >>>>>> NIC she uses, or on the base station/hub/router. Vanilla
    >>>>>> WRT54G firmware doesn't offer much in the way of instrumentation
    >>>>>> but DD-WRT does.
    >>>>> The software on her laptop shows signal and noise levels. The signal is very high and the noise is very low. Same levels as it always has been, and same levels as in rooms without the problem.
    >>>>>
    >>>> Seems to be of little use in this case, then....
    >>> It must be thinking the signal from the PIR is a signal and not noise? Hmmm....

    >> Don't know. May just be an SWR meter...

    >
    > How is that any use? (I'm assuming you mean "standing wave ratio").
    >


    Just a power meter, yup. Not much use.

    >>>> MARVELL is a semiconductor maker who makes NICs, if
    >>>> that's even relevant. I don't know enough sitting here
    >>>> to predict how these things will interact.
    >>> In that case it's presumably somebody's WAP. But quite why it was showing full signal strength I don't know. There are no buildings close enough to have that strength, and everything in our building is not labelled Marvel. Someone's mobile??? Some of them use wireless G nowadays?

    >> It's probably somebody else's WAP.

    >
    > Full strength doesn't make sense though. Nearest house is 100 metres away. I can't think why someone would be transmitting in
    > our building. Unless a mobile phone????


    It's not a mobile phone, unless someone's using an 802.11 enabled
    phone, and then it would act as a NIC and not as an AP.

    >
    >


    --
    Les Cargill

  9. #9
    Peter Hucker
    Guest

    Re: PIR interfering with wireless network

    On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 00:22:49 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:

    > Peter Hucker wrote:
    >> On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 22:19:17 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Peter Hucker wrote:
    >>>> On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 21:00:31 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
    >>>>>> On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 19:20:17 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:


    >>>>>>> Doesn't your news client word wrap?
    >>>>>> Doesn't yours? I can't predict what width your screen is.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>> <newsreader pedantry mode on> :)
    >>>> Pedants are abundant in newsgroups.....
    >>>>
    >>>>> A lot of news clients will word wrap before sending, and
    >>>>> there are ( believe it or not ) standards.
    >>>> Old old standards. When we had green screen monitors and used DOS.
    >>>>
    >>>>> 60 chars is pretty common.
    >>>> My monitor (only 20") displays about 150 chars (and I've got a column on the left for the group list). Having a white space is irritating.
    >>>>
    >>>>> Or you could line break things manually -
    >>>>> Microsoft can't write a text box, apparently....
    >>>> A text box? And what's MS to do with it? I'm not posting with a MS newsreader.
    >>>>
    >>>>> I'm pretty sure you can't see it like I see it, hence
    >>>>> the comment. It was all one long line...
    >>>> Why doesn't yours wrap to your window, like any word processor, or even notepad!
    >>>>
    >>> Mine wraps them in the reader window, but does not
    >>> wrap them in the reply window unless they have
    >>> line breaks in them. I'm using SeaMonkey ( aka
    >>> Firefox ).

    >>
    >> That's weird to wrap in one and not the other.
    >>
    >>> You're using Opera, which I bet has a
    >>> line-wrap setting or two.

    >>
    >> It does, but I've set it to "off". Well it's not actually off, it's "format flowed" which is a standard, but it seems at least one of our newsreaders isn't sticking to properly.
    >>
    >>> Again, I am not complaining per se, simply
    >>> pointing something out that you probably can't see
    >>> from your frame of reference.

    >>
    >> People grumble about it occasionally. If I set it to wrap, we get orphaned lines everywhere (usually when people are using Outhouse Distress, which wraps to the same 72 chars even when quoting, so after a few indents, a word falls off the end of every line).
    >>

    >
    > Yup; weird. Dunno if it helps or not.


    At this end everything is fine. Opera wraps the display in the reading and the reply window.

    >>>>>> I'll get them to switch the blasted thing off, it's easy to see if there is still a problem, pinging something on the network repeatedly from a laptop on wireless in the offending room causes a lot of lost packets, and those that do go through are often delayed by up to a second. Moving away from that room I get 1-2ms consistently.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>> Might work.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>> You may also be able to get to instrumentation on the wireless
    >>>>>>> NIC she uses, or on the base station/hub/router. Vanilla
    >>>>>>> WRT54G firmware doesn't offer much in the way of instrumentation
    >>>>>>> but DD-WRT does.
    >>>>>> The software on her laptop shows signal and noise levels. The signal is very high and the noise is very low. Same levels as it always has been, and same levels as in rooms without the problem.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>> Seems to be of little use in this case, then....
    >>>> It must be thinking the signal from the PIR is a signal and not noise? Hmmm....
    >>> Don't know. May just be an SWR meter...

    >>
    >> How is that any use? (I'm assuming you mean "standing wave ratio").
    >>

    >
    > Just a power meter, yup. Not much use.


    The signal level is very useful when I'm deciding on placement of the transmitters. But I've never seen the noise level go up at all.

    >>>>> MARVELL is a semiconductor maker who makes NICs, if
    >>>>> that's even relevant. I don't know enough sitting here
    >>>>> to predict how these things will interact.
    >>>> In that case it's presumably somebody's WAP. But quite why it was showing full signal strength I don't know. There are no buildings close enough to have that strength, and everything in our building is not labelled Marvel. Someone's mobile??? Some of them use wireless G nowadays?
    >>> It's probably somebody else's WAP.

    >>
    >> Full strength doesn't make sense though. Nearest house is 100 metres away. I can't think why someone would be transmitting in
    > > our building. Unless a mobile phone????

    >
    > It's not a mobile phone, unless someone's using an 802.11 enabled
    > phone, and then it would act as a NIC and not as an AP.


    That's what I thought. But if two phones can communicate on this frequency, doesn't one have to act as an AP?

    --
    http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

    A beautiful young girl is about to undergo a minor operation.
    She's laid on a trolley bed by a lady in a white dress and brought to the corridor.
    Before they enter the room she leaves her behind the theatre door to go in and check whether everything is ready.
    A young man wearing a white coat approaches, takes the sheet away and starts examining her naked body.
    He walks away and talks to another man in a white coat.
    The second man comes over and does the same examinations.
    When a third man starts examining her body so closely, she grows impatient and says:
    "All these examinations are fine and appreciated, but when are you going to start the operation?"
    The man in the white coat shrugged his shoulders: "I have no idea. We're just painting the corridor."

  10. #10
    Bob Fry
    Guest

    Re: PIR interfering with wireless network

    >>>>> "PH" == Peter Hucker <none@spam.com> writes:

    >> Doesn't your news client word wrap?


    PH> Doesn't yours? I can't predict what width your screen is.

    What an idiot.
    --
    It is part of the general pattern of misguided policy that our country
    is now geared to an arms economy which was bred in an artificially
    induced psychosis of war hysteria and nurtured upon an incessant
    propaganda of fear.
    ~ General Douglas MacArthur

  11. #11
    Peter Hucker
    Guest

    Re: PIR interfering with wireless network

    On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 04:00:27 -0000, Bob Fry <bobfry@mailinator.com> wrote:

    >>>>>> "PH" == Peter Hucker <none@spam.com> writes:

    >
    > >> Doesn't your news client word wrap?

    >
    > PH> Doesn't yours? I can't predict what width your screen is.
    >
    > What an idiot.


    Are you a communist who thinks every machine and every person is the same? I don't want measly 80 character columns. I have a large screen for a reason.

    If you want 80 columns, then get your useless newsreader to wrap to window, then my text and everyone else's text will be 80 columns wide (or whatever the width of your window is) especially for you.

    --
    http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

    Cobra: 2 conjoined bras.

  12. #12
    ray
    Guest

    Re: PIR interfering with wireless network

    "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
    news:op.uol90txg4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
    > On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 04:00:27 -0000, Bob Fry <bobfry@mailinator.com> wrote:
    >
    >>>>>>> "PH" == Peter Hucker <none@spam.com> writes:

    >>
    >> >> Doesn't your news client word wrap?

    >>
    >> PH> Doesn't yours? I can't predict what width your screen is.
    >>
    >> What an idiot.

    >
    > Are you a communist who thinks every machine and every person is the same?
    > I don't want measly 80 character columns. I have a large screen for a
    > reason.
    >
    > If you want 80 columns, then get your useless newsreader to wrap to
    > window, then my text and everyone else's text will be 80 columns wide (or
    > whatever the width of your window is) especially for you.
    >


    Let the majority decide to *not* use line length > 80.
    If you want it more .... it's up to you,
    but please follow the usenet habits/etiquette !!!

    http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/usenet/dont.html
    say: line length under 80 (preferably under 72) characters;

    http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/primer/part1/
    say:
    Try to keep your text in a generic format. Many (if not most) of
    the people reading Usenet do so from 80 column terminals or from
    workstations with 80 column terminal windows. Try to keep your
    lines of text to less than 80 characters for optimal readability.
    If people quote part of your article in a followup, short lines will
    probably show up better, too.



  13. #13
    Dave J.
    Guest

    Re: PIR interfering with wireless network

    In MsgID<49837cdf$0$4861$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com> on Fri, 30
    Jan 2009 17:19:17 -0500, in comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc, 'Les
    Cargill' wrote:

    >Mine wraps them in the reader window, but does not
    >wrap them in the reply window unless they have
    >line breaks in them.


    Same differences in 'Agent' - You can set it to autowrap to read posts
    from people who post in 'flowed'[1] format but it quotes exactly as
    received, meaning as one long long long long line.

    My trick in Agent, is to copy/paste the original posting into the reply
    window, paste it in without quotemarks to that Agent wraps it for you.
    Then at the end of each line, backspace/return to put the CRLFs in and
    then ctrl-x and ctrl-q to cut and paste it back quotemarked.

    [1] heh - should that be an 'o' or an 'a' :)

    >I'm using SeaMonkey ( aka
    >Firefox ).


    Maybe an equivalent trick in your client?

    Above is a bit of a pain in the neck but much easier than any other way on
    this client. Makes me slightly slower to reply, not consciously but
    use-netiquette just adds to any other factors that make a difference.

    Sample's not big enough to see if it content quality's associated or if
    it's just down to formatting, but I suspect others react similarly.
    There's certainly an association between less replies and mile-long lines.

    >You're using Opera, which I bet has a line-wrap setting or two.


    It does, yes.


    >>
    >> I'll get the contractors to pay :-)
    >>

    >
    >Check with 'em. It might be worth investigating what
    >the PIR modules actually do - I just know that
    >motion detectors will often use the 3.4GHz band...


    2.4 Ghz surely?

    If the circuit's mains earthed then silver foil grounded by contact with a
    hand will screen possible culprits well enough to assign the blame..

    Dave J.

  14. #14
    Dave J.
    Guest

    Re: PIR interfering with wireless network

    In MsgID<zlh83z1g.fsf@mailinator.com> on Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:00:27 -0800,
    in comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc, 'Bob Fry' wrote:

    >>>>>> "PH" == Peter Hucker <none@spam.com> writes:

    >
    > >> Doesn't your news client word wrap?

    >
    > PH> Doesn't yours? I can't predict what width your screen is.
    >
    >What an idiot.


    Not his fault if he can't spell RFC..

    Dave J.

  15. #15
    Peter Hucker
    Guest

    Re: PIR interfering with wireless network

    On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 16:47:13 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> wrote:

    > "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
    > news:op.uol90txg4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
    >> On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 04:00:27 -0000, Bob Fry <bobfry@mailinator.com> wrote:
    >>


    >>>
    >>> >> Doesn't your news client word wrap?
    >>>
    >>> PH> Doesn't yours? I can't predict what width your screen is.
    >>>
    >>> What an idiot.

    >>
    >> Are you a communist who thinks every machine and every person is the same?
    >> I don't want measly 80 character columns. I have a large screen for a
    >> reason.
    >>
    >> If you want 80 columns, then get your useless newsreader to wrap to
    >> window, then my text and everyone else's text will be 80 columns wide (or
    >> whatever the width of your window is) especially for you.
    >>

    >
    > Let the majority decide to *not* use line length > 80.
    > If you want it more .... it's up to you,
    > but please follow the usenet habits/etiquette !!!


    You've just contradicted yourself, you're saying people should not change but people should decide!

    > http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/usenet/dont.html
    > say: line length under 80 (preferably under 72) characters;
    >
    > http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/primer/part1/
    > say:
    > Try to keep your text in a generic format. Many (if not most) of
    > the people reading Usenet do so from 80 column terminals or from
    > workstations with 80 column terminal windows. Try to keep your
    > lines of text to less than 80 characters for optimal readability.
    > If people quote part of your article in a followup, short lines will
    > probably show up better, too.


    I'm using format flowed. It's a standard, live with it.

    --
    http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

    I want to lie shipwrecked and comatose
    Drinking fresh mango juice
    With goldfish shoals nibbling round my toes
    Fun in the sun

  16. #16
    Peter Hucker
    Guest

    Re: PIR interfering with wireless network

    On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 18:11:01 -0000, Dave J. <requiem@freeuk.com> wrote:

    > In MsgID<zlh83z1g.fsf@mailinator.com> on Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:00:27 -0800,
    > in comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc, 'Bob Fry' wrote:
    >
    >>>>>>> "PH" == Peter Hucker <none@spam.com> writes:

    >>
    >> >> Doesn't your news client word wrap?

    >>
    >> PH> Doesn't yours? I can't predict what width your screen is.
    >>
    >>What an idiot.

    >
    > Not his fault if he can't spell RFC..


    Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.

    --
    http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

    Fred and Mary get married but can't afford a honeymoon, so they go back to mum and dads for the night.
    In the morning, little Johnny gets up and has his breakfast.
    As he is going out of the door to go to school, he asks his mum, "are Fred and Mary are up yet?"
    She replies, "No".
    Johnny asks, "Do you know what I think?"
    His mom replies, "Never mind what you think! Just go to school."
    Johnny comes home for lunch and asks his mum, "Are Fred and Mary up yet?"
    She replies, "No."
    Johnny says, "Do you know what I think?"
    His mom replies, "Never mind what you think! Eat your lunch and go back to school."
    After school, he comes home and asks, "Are Fred and Mary up yet?"
    His mom says, "No."
    Johnny asks, "Do you know what I think?"
    His mom replies, "OK...OK! What do you think?"
    He says, "Well, last night Fred came in for the Vaseline and I think I gave him my airplane glue."

  17. #17
    ray
    Guest

    Re: PIR interfering with wireless network

    "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
    news:op.uoqtil1j4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
    > On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 16:47:13 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
    >> news:op.uol90txg4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
    >>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 04:00:27 -0000, Bob Fry <bobfry@mailinator.com>
    >>> wrote:
    >>>

    >
    >>>>
    >>>> >> Doesn't your news client word wrap?
    >>>>
    >>>> PH> Doesn't yours? I can't predict what width your screen is.
    >>>>
    >>>> What an idiot.
    >>>
    >>> Are you a communist who thinks every machine and every person is the
    >>> same?
    >>> I don't want measly 80 character columns. I have a large screen for a
    >>> reason.
    >>>
    >>> If you want 80 columns, then get your useless newsreader to wrap to
    >>> window, then my text and everyone else's text will be 80 columns wide
    >>> (or
    >>> whatever the width of your window is) especially for you.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Let the majority decide to *not* use line length > 80.
    >> If you want it more .... it's up to you,
    >> but please follow the usenet habits/etiquette !!!

    >
    > You've just contradicted yourself, you're saying people should not change
    > but people should decide!
    >
    >> http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/usenet/dont.html
    >> say: line length under 80 (preferably under 72) characters;
    >>
    >> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/primer/part1/
    >> say:
    >> Try to keep your text in a generic format. Many (if not most) of
    >> the people reading Usenet do so from 80 column terminals or from
    >> workstations with 80 column terminal windows. Try to keep your
    >> lines of text to less than 80 characters for optimal readability.
    >> If people quote part of your article in a followup, short lines will
    >> probably show up better, too.

    >
    > I'm using format flowed. It's a standard, live with it.
    >


    You speak as microsoft claiming that the microsoft's standards is *the*
    standard.
    If you want to use Usenet (it's here) it's better to follow the Usenet's
    standard.



  18. #18
    ray
    Guest

    Re: PIR interfering with wireless network

    "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
    news:op.uoqtnsvf4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
    > On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 18:11:01 -0000, Dave J. <requiem@freeuk.com> wrote:
    >
    >> In MsgID<zlh83z1g.fsf@mailinator.com> on Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:00:27 -0800,
    >> in comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc, 'Bob Fry' wrote:
    >>
    >>>>>>>> "PH" == Peter Hucker <none@spam.com> writes:
    >>>
    >>> >> Doesn't your news client word wrap?
    >>>
    >>> PH> Doesn't yours? I can't predict what width your screen is.
    >>>
    >>>What an idiot.

    >>
    >> Not his fault if he can't spell RFC..

    >
    > Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.


    And you are too important to follow any rules. ....



  19. #19
    Dave J.
    Guest

    Re: PIR interfering with wireless network

    In MsgID<op.uoqtnsvf4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net> on Mon, 02 Feb 2009 21:22:30
    -0000, in comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc, 'Peter Hucker' wrote:

    >>>What an idiot.

    >>
    >> Not his fault if he can't spell RFC..

    >
    >Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.


    It's not a rule, it's a standard. There's no obligation to follow it, it's
    just there in case you want to cooperate with the majority.

    Dave J.

  20. #20
    ray
    Guest

    Re: PIR interfering with wireless network

    "Dave J." <requiem@freeuk.com> wrote in message
    news:gma8ja$ou4$1@news.datemas.de...
    > In MsgID<op.uoqtnsvf4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net> on Mon, 02 Feb 2009 21:22:30
    > -0000, in comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc, 'Peter Hucker' wrote:
    >
    >>>>What an idiot.
    >>>
    >>> Not his fault if he can't spell RFC..

    >>
    >>Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.

    >
    > It's not a rule, it's a standard. There's no obligation to follow it, it's
    > just there in case you want to cooperate with the majority.


    He think that the majority must cooperate with him :-)



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