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Thread: Vaccines as Biological Weapons?

  1. #21
    Imperial Impotentate brembo's Avatar
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    Evan-

    C'mon man. Wiki is one thing, having a real live Doc is another.

    David is saying that the INTENDED purpose of the injection is to bypass part of the immune defense array (skin) to get it in there and doing it's little white cell thing. Vaccines are by nature de-tuned versions of the critter we don't want and it's likely that the weaker strain that vaccines are would have problems overcomming the skin/mucous barrier, so injection is the most logical method in many cases.
    Tao_Jones Cult Member since 2004
    I gave Miss Manners a Dirty Sanchez, and she LIKED it.

  2. #22
    Maneater JawZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brembo View Post
    Evan-

    C'mon man. Wiki is one thing, having a real live Doc is another.

    David is saying that the INTENDED purpose of the injection is to bypass part of the immune defense array (skin) to get it in there and doing it's little white cell thing. Vaccines are by nature de-tuned versions of the critter we don't want and it's likely that the weaker strain that vaccines are would have problems overcomming the skin/mucous barrier, so injection is the most logical method in many cases.



    Knightmare's purpose in creating this thread was to show how vaccines can be used as a biological weapon.

    What he said is this:

    Vaccines thru a needle go directly into the body, bypassing your natural immune system.
    How is he incorrect Dan?

    Dan, A needle is designed to break through your skin, your first line of defense(the immune system barrier).


    Dan, if I were to place the vaccine directly on your arm....it would be ineffective.

    Dan, If I wanted to infect you with a biological agent, I would use the delivery system that is common to vaccines, injection.

    The lovely and sinister part of it is that YOU agree to be injected with vaccines Dan!!!!

    And that is what Knightmare is saying Dan. David is taking his purpose and his message out of context.

    So please stop distorting Knightmare's message.

    If you disagree further, we can talk about it on the phone in a recorded session. PM me for my number. Fair enough Dan?

    ...formerly the omnipotent UOD

  3. #23
    Moderator David's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JawZ View Post
    David,

    I will also keep it very simple for you as well.

    From wikipedia:

    The immune system protects organisms from infection with layered defenses of increasing specificity. Most simply, physical barriers prevent pathogens such as bacteria and viruses from entering the organism.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_system

    http://health.howstuffworks.com/immune-system4.htm




    http://uhaweb.hartford.edu/bugl/immune.htm



    Do we need to dig deeper?

    <sigh>

    Evan, do you recall my profession?

    Hell_Yes

    Luck is where preparation meets opportunity - Seneca

    "Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov

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  4. #24
    Moderator David's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JawZ View Post
    Knightmare's purpose in creating this thread was to show how vaccines can be used as a biological weapon.

    What he said is this:



    How is he incorrect Dan?

    Dan, A needle is designed to break through your skin, your first line of defense(the immune system barrier).


    Dan, if I were to place the vaccine directly on your arm....it would be ineffective.

    Dan, If I wanted to infect you with a biological agent, I would use the delivery system that is common to vaccines, injection.

    The lovely and sinister part of it is that YOU agree to be injected with vaccines Dan!!!!

    And that is what Knightmare is saying Dan. David is taking his purpose and his message out of context.
    Because Knightmare does not understand what he is reading or he is creating a distortion of fact.

    The most of the pathogens that immunization effect can enter the body through mucous membranes..... Like, inhalation..... does this sound familiar? They never need break the skin.

    Barriers, like latex, nitrile rubber or the stratum corneum are not the immune system. The immune system is a complex system of reaction, often started by an insult to tissues, the lysis of Mast cells with release histamines and cytokines, which in turn increas blood flow to the area, luring a variety of white blood cells and other molecules to destroy the offending object and later promote repair....

    BTW... I did not need to look it up.

    Have some peanut butter.

    david

    Hell_Yes

    Luck is where preparation meets opportunity - Seneca

    "Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov

    It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book. - Friedrich Nietzsche

  5. #25
    Conspiracy Fool knightmare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    <sigh>

    Evan, do you recall my profession?
    Sorry David, but being a dentist does not give you the final authority in anything posted on SG, which is medical related.
    “"A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer."”

    Bruce Lee

  6. #26
    Second Most EVIL YARDofSTUF's Avatar
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    Careful David, you may end up on UOD's ignore if you keep up this kind of behavior.

  7. #27
    Conspiracy Fool knightmare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YARDofSTUF View Post
    Careful David, you may end up on UOD's ignore if you keep up this kind of behavior.

    This is why no one can have a mature discussion on SG.

    Why not offer a opinion instead of bashing a memeber who is trying to help.

    JAWZ/UOD intentions are honorable.
    “"A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer."”

    Bruce Lee

  8. #28
    Conspiracy Fool knightmare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    Because Knightmare does not understand what he is reading or he is creating a distortion of fact.

    .

    BTW... I did not need to look it up.

    Have some peanut butter.

    david

    creating a distortion of the fact???

    Why not just call me a liar David?
    “"A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer."”

    Bruce Lee

  9. #29
    Conspiracy Fool knightmare's Avatar
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  10. #30
    Maneater JawZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    Because Knightmare does not understand what he is reading or he is creating a distortion of fact.

    The most of the pathogens that immunization effect can enter the body through mucous membranes..... Like, inhalation..... does this sound familiar? They never need break the skin.

    Barriers, like latex, nitrile rubber or the stratum corneum are not the immune system. The immune system is a complex system of reaction, often started by an insult to tissues, the lysis of Mast cells with release histamines and cytokines, which in turn increas blood flow to the area, luring a variety of white blood cells and other molecules to destroy the offending object and later promote repair....

    BTW... I did not need to look it up.

    Have some peanut butter.

    david

    David, your experience with biological warfare is...............?


    It just so happens to be a very large part of my profession.


    Knightmare is still correct. I'm sorry we disagree. You are a healer, while I am a killer. I can't help it if you missed his point....which you did David. He's simply stating that vaccine is a great social engineering tool as most people will allow themselves to be injected with almost anything that comes from a "trusted" source. So again, if I wanted to infect you with a biological agent, I would inject you with it via a socially acceptable vaccination.

    If you have a point to make, stop being so wordy and just make it. You don't need to impress me...I already admire you without all the god damn jargon.

    If you want to be right about the skin NOT being part of the immune system....do so at your own peril.

    ...formerly the omnipotent UOD

  11. #31
    Moderator David's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JawZ View Post
    David, your experience with biological warfare is...............?


    It just so happens to be a very large part of my profession.


    Knightmare is still correct. I'm sorry we disagree. You are a healer, while I am a killer. I can't help it if you missed his point....which you did David. He's simply stating that vaccine is a great social engineering tool as most people will allow themselves to be injected with almost anything that comes from a "trusted" source. So again, if I wanted to infect you with a biological agent, I would inject you with it via a socially acceptable vaccination.

    If you have a point to make, stop being so wordy and just make it. You don't need to impress me...I already admire you without all the god damn jargon.

    If you want to be right about the skin NOT being part of the immune system....do so at your own peril.
    Read post #14 to see what I took issue. Knightmare is incorrect, but go on believing what you will. The stratum corneum (look it up) is a PASSIVE barrier, not the ACTIVE immune system which is capable of some rather cool things.

    My experience is in treating bacterial and viral infections. I do have some knowledge of the immune system.

    It is the same a poisoned well, salmonella laced food, lead painted toys, cigarette exports or a nerve agent sprayed into a subway ventilation system. It CAN be intentional, or a case of occam's razor.... human laziness and ignorance.

    Hell_Yes

    Luck is where preparation meets opportunity - Seneca

    "Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov

    It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book. - Friedrich Nietzsche

  12. #32
    Maneater JawZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    Read post #14 to see what I took issue. Knightmare is incorrect, but go on believing what you will. The stratum corneum (look it up) is a PASSIVE barrier, not the ACTIVE immune system which is capable of some rather cool things.

    My experience is in treating bacterial and viral infections. I do have some knowledge of the immune system.

    It is the same a poisoned well, salmonella laced food, lead painted toys, cigarette exports or a nerve agent sprayed into a subway ventilation system. It CAN be intentional, or a case of occam's razor.... human laziness and ignorance.

    Great David....so I can stop washing my hands now?

    Go read your children a lovely story. Time for milk and cookies here.

    Evan

    ...formerly the omnipotent UOD

  13. #33
    Second Most EVIL YARDofSTUF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knightmare View Post
    This is why no one can have a mature discussion on SG.

    Why not offer a opinion instead of bashing a memeber who is trying to help.

    JAWZ/UOD intentions are honorable.

    I return a discussion to the same level at which he used PMing me. Before that I put in my honest opinions. If he doesnt want to be treated like a child, he shouldn't treat others with differing opinions as such.

    For a vaccine to work it needs to get passed the skin, now as I understand it the disease or whatever they put in is suppose to be dead or not active, so something like a live flu strain is bad. But it just seems like a mistake to me.

  14. #34
    Moderator David's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JawZ View Post
    Great David....so I can stop washing my hands now?

    Go read your children a lovely story. Time for milk and cookies here.

    Evan
    No, because you will probably touch one of your or your daughter's mucous membrane. Lord only knows what you or I might have handled.

    "Any tool is a weapon if you hold it right."
    -Ani DiFranco

    Hell_Yes

    Luck is where preparation meets opportunity - Seneca

    "Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov

    It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book. - Friedrich Nietzsche

  15. #35
    Moderator David's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knightmare View Post
    creating a distortion of the fact???

    Why not just call me a liar David?
    Do I have a reason to call you a liar?

    Because, I believe you have half the information, and made assumptions.

    You are aware that there are inhaled vaccines, no need to break the skin. Influenza, in fact.

    As for being a "final authority", not really. However, I might have a better working knowledge on the immune system with my background and experience.
    Last edited by David; 03-16-09 at 08:32 PM.

    Hell_Yes

    Luck is where preparation meets opportunity - Seneca

    "Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov

    It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book. - Friedrich Nietzsche

  16. #36
    Moderator David's Avatar
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    You know......


    David, I had really one key issue with your supposition, moreover it was a simple correction. With the in your face approach of Evan, I allowed my emotions to get the better of me. Understand, it is my job and passion to heal people. I am no simple dentist.

    I sincerely apologize for any ill words directed towards your person.

    -david

    Hell_Yes

    Luck is where preparation meets opportunity - Seneca

    "Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov

    It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book. - Friedrich Nietzsche

  17. #37
    Conspiracy Fool knightmare's Avatar
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  18. #38
    Conspiracy Fool knightmare's Avatar
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    Long Time everyone....
    I work as a Nurse at a Mental Health facility now....
    It has been quite an experience.

    I hope everyone is doing well...
    I was browsing my profile, could not believe it was 19 years ago, I joined SG.

    Really great times, going thru some of my old threads/posts
    “"A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer."”

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  19. #39
    Administrator Philip's Avatar
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    Hey, long time!!! Good to see you back though. Some of us are still around
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  20. #40
    Senior Member Easto's Avatar
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    I've found going over old (real old) posts can be a lot of fun. Not just mine but everyone's. It can bring a smile to your face.

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