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  1. #1
    Junior Member MadDoctor's Avatar
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    Auto bailout collapses in Senate

    http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/11/news...nate/index.htm

    For this auto bill to pass... I'm guessing no less than 5 "rider bills" will be attached.

    Perhaps aid to a factory in Billings that makes waterproof aspirin. Another to a company in Kentucky that rolls out square donuts. The possibilities are limitless!

    (more to come)
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    Official Photographer Dakota's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadDoctor View Post
    http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/11/news...nate/index.htm

    For this auto bill to pass... I'm guessing no less than 5 "rider bills" will be attached.

    Perhaps aid to a factory in Billings that makes waterproof aspirin. Another to a company in Kentucky that rolls out square donuts. The possibilities are limitless!

    (more to come)
    In a perfect world yes.

    Ridiculous yes.

    US itself, collapses. Probably.
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  3. #3
    Maneater JawZ's Avatar
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    Well.....the UAW is refusing to budge. They won't take pay cuts until 2011. From my understanding, that is 1 year after they were to assume the funding of their own retirement pensions.


    What bothers me now about this development is that it doesn't seem to me that anybody involved in this is looking for a solution but rather decide on who gets to be the bad guy.


    This is not the time for saving face.

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  4. #4
    ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ downhill's Avatar
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    Ummm....I'm not sure why they were ask to take cuts in the first place but from the article I read, it's not that they wouldn't, it's that they weren't given a time frame to accept the cuts. 2009 vs 2011 when current contracts are up.

  5. #5
    TypicalWhitePerson JC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by downhill View Post
    Ummm....I'm not sure why they were ask to take cuts in the first place
    Really
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    ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ downhill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JC View Post
    Really
    I figured it wouldn't be too long before you chirped in.

    Your hate of unions is pretty well documented on here. So tell me again, what are your thoughts on Reagan again? You never did answer that question.

    Personally I think that given a bit of time, most in the UAW would vote for consessions vs loosing their jobs. I can also understand the UAW's position. They can't just speak in a couple of hours for their whole membership.

    Of course Republican leadership in congress knows that full well. It's a union busting trick by those who would rather see a union go down than help an ailing economy.

    *See! What did I tell you! It's not the fault of the big three!!! It's the unions fault!" Partisan politics as usual.

    Holding American jobs at gun point seems pretty partisan to me but hey.........it's a mindset that isn't going away.

    I've an idea though, JC. How about Congress take a pay cut as well. They're the ones who are responsible for the whole economic melt down.


    That said, guess what? I'm sure Bush is going to dip into that 700 billion fund if the Senate doesn't act soon. That means, no consessions by the union, and no concessions that things will be different by the big three.

  7. #7
    TypicalWhitePerson JC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by downhill View Post
    I figured it wouldn't be too long before you chirped in.

    Your hate of unions is pretty well documented on here. So tell me again, what are your thoughts on Reagan again? You never did answer that question.

    Personally I think that given a bit of time, most in the UAW would vote for consessions vs loosing their jobs. I can also understand the UAW's position. They can't just speak in a couple of hours for their whole membership.

    Of course Republican leadership in congress knows that full well. It's a union busting trick by those who would rather see a union go down than help an ailing economy.

    *See! What did I tell you! It's not the fault of the big three!!! It's the unions fault!" Partisan politics as usual.

    Holding American jobs at gun point seems pretty partisan to me but hey.........it's a mindset that isn't going away.

    I've an idea though, JC. How about Congress take a pay cut as well. They're the ones who are responsible for the whole economic melt down.


    That said, guess what? I'm sure Bush is going to dip into that 700 billion fund if the Senate doesn't act soon. That means, no consessions by the union, and no concessions that things will be different by the big three.


    I think all in all the Reagan era was great. Americans prospered in comparison to the days of Carter.
    Hate is a pretty strong word for my view on unions. My stepfather worked @ GM when I was in HS, and still does as well as my sister. That job put food on our table, and clothes on our backs. I believe all sides need to give a lot. I mean the UAW wants money from the tax payers, but won't take any cuts, c'mon. My business is directly related to the auto industry so it hurts me as well.
    Hell yeah congress should take cuts as well.
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  8. #8
    Moderator Roody's Avatar
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    I've taken a bit of a break from following this situation. Can someone explain why the unions won't take a pay cut?

  9. #9
    Ohh Hell yeah.. Sava700's Avatar
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    Union Greed.. imagin that

  10. #10
    ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ downhill's Avatar
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    Sava, I don't think you are in a postion to explain to anyone about unions. lol

    Roody, who knows if they won't? Union leaders aren't exactly in a postion to just say, "Sure, we'll drop 4 bucks off of the pay of every member." I believe it would have to come down to a vote.

    Agian, it's just typical antiunion tactics by the Republican party. It's not exacly like they get any pac money from unions. lol Payback time.

    There is also this consensus among many Reps in congress that it's not that big a deal if Chrysler and GM claim chapter 11. Some of them think that those two companies will come out a lot leaner and more competitive. Of course that would kill the UAW and insiders think that's exactly what Republican leadership in the Senate is trying to do.

    Despite the fact that thousands and thousands of jobs are at risk.

  11. #11
    Ohh Hell yeah.. Sava700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by downhill View Post
    Sava, I don't think you are in a postion to explain to anyone about unions. lol

    .
    Yeah, I am.

    I've had direct involvement with the UAW for over 4 years..thats plenty of time to know how they work. I do say some of the things they try to do are for the good interest of its members but in the long run its nothing but greed drivin incentives and money into the pockets of the big wigs. Remember I've been in direct involvement with the auto industry for over 10years..so I have more than enough experience to back what I say.

  12. #12
    ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ downhill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sava700 View Post
    Yeah, I am.

    I've had direct involvement with the UAW for over 4 years..thats plenty of time to know how they work. I do say some of the things they try to do are for the good interest of its members but in the long run its nothing but greed drivin incentives and money into the pockets of the big wigs. Remember I've been in direct involvement with the auto industry for over 10years..so I have more than enough experience to back what I say.
    The other side of the fence dosn't exactly mean you have any clue what unions are about. I'm also beginning to think that all this involvement is pure balderdash.

    Always speaking from the management side isn't exactly knowing what's going on or why.

  13. #13
    Ohh Hell yeah.. Sava700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by downhill View Post
    The other side of the fence dosn't exactly mean you have any clue what unions are about. I'm also beginning to think that all this involvement is pure balderdash.

    Always speaking from the management side isn't exactly knowing what's going on or why.
    I had friends who were part of the union, they all said the same thing once the UAW got in they didn't attempt to help them out one bit when things started getting hard..instead they tried to worm money out of the company anyway they could which again is nothing but Greed drivin and one reason why we shouldn't give one red cent to the Big3 cause it will go right into Ron's pocket. Doesn't surprise me they won't take a pay cut to retain a job in the long run...pretty stupid too.

    "I believe the president of the UAW, Ron Gettelfinger, was too unrealistic and too selfish," Morici said on The Early Show.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...es;secondStory
    Last edited by Sava700; 12-12-08 at 08:04 AM.

  14. #14
    Advanced Member tarpoon75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by downhill View Post
    Sava, I don't think you are in a postion to explain to anyone about unions. lol

    Roody, who knows if they won't? Union leaders aren't exactly in a postion to just say, "Sure, we'll drop 4 bucks off of the pay of every member." I believe it would have to come down to a vote.

    Agian, it's just typical antiunion tactics by the Republican party. It's not exacly like they get any pac money from unions. lol Payback time.

    There is also this consensus among many Reps in congress that it's not that big a deal if Chrysler and GM claim chapter 11. Some of them think that those two companies will come out a lot leaner and more competitive. Of course that would kill the UAW and insiders think that's exactly what Republican leadership in the Senate is trying to do.

    Despite the fact that thousands and thousands of jobs are at risk.
    In all seriousness can you tell me why you think the UAW is not part of the problem in this whole issue?

    Do we really need the UAW in it's present form in this day and age?
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  15. #15
    Second Most EVIL YARDofSTUF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarpoon75 View Post
    In all seriousness can you tell me why you think the UAW is not part of the problem in this whole issue?

    Do we really need the UAW in it's present form in this day and age?
    A union in that line of work I would say yes, the UAW, no. The UAW is still stuck on old ideas and has a 1 track mind, focused on money.

    A union is needed that understands the industry and that is interested in working with company to help its members getting quality pay and services, while helping the company get teh best out of its workers.

  16. #16
    ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ downhill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarpoon75 View Post
    In all seriousness can you tell me why you think the UAW is not part of the problem in this whole issue?

    Do we really need the UAW in it's present form in this day and age?
    I agree with Yardy...yes we do need some kind of collective bargaining. Tell me exactly why you think we don't.

    I've never said that the UAW didn't have a part in this mess. Quite the opposite. However I believe it's a lot less than the companies they work for.

  17. #17
    TypicalWhitePerson JC's Avatar
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    Gettelfigner took aim at criticism over UAW wages and demands that compensation be made the same as foreign auto companies’ U.S. plants. He pointed to research that showed Toyota workers at a plant in Kentucky were making, with bonuses, $30 an hour, compared to the $28.12 an hour paid to UAW workers at the Detroit automakers.

    Wow, so by McConnell' reckoning. , The big three need to up the average from 28 bucks to 30 bucks.....
    $30 per hour also included cash bonuses for performance. When you look at total compensation ie benefits etc, that's where the $ 40 an hour vs $ 73 comes in.

    Gettelfigner talking about "benchmarks" based on Toyota is interesting considering the auto companies are in washington with their hats in their hands wanting tax payer money that we don't even have.


    As I have said before, The unions and it's members have forgotten who they work for. I 'll give them a hint..... It's not the union.
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  18. #18
    ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ downhill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JC View Post
    $30 per hour also included cash bonuses for performance. When you look at total compensation ie benefits etc, that's where the $ 40 an hour vs $ 73 comes in.

    Gettelfigner talking about "benchmarks" based on Toyota is interesting considering the auto companies are in washington with their hats in their hands.
    Oh I know full well where those differences were, JC.

    You really don't think that Gettlefigner has a point? Look the UAW has never had a say in the direction the big three take their companies. They don't get to see contracts with dealers, suppliers ect. He has a point that to know what those other companies are doing, may save the big three.

    Or, it may show a lot of graft from a few southern states who in some ways, have been actually helping, foreign car companies at the tax payer expense.

  19. #19
    Advanced Member tarpoon75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by downhill View Post
    I agree with Yardy...yes we do need some kind of collective bargaining. Tell me exactly why you think we don't.

    I've never said that the UAW didn't have a part in this mess. Quite the opposite. However I believe it's a lot less than the companies they work for.
    Quote Originally Posted by downhill View Post
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tarpoon75 View Post
    I say tell the UAW to go f@#k themselves

    Educate yourself on the current problems of the big three then come back and post your findings.

    Thank you very much.
    What was this comment about then?

    If I'm wrong then I'm wrong and apologize.
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  20. #20
    TypicalWhitePerson JC's Avatar
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    I'm just thinking here. Maybe part of the problem with the US auto manufactures is an image issue. Maybe this could start some kind of uniformity. Uniforms might be the answer, I don't know. Have a certain level of professionalism about them, not that they are not professionals but at least look that way as well.
    Disclaimer** (I come from a military background and like things uniform and "dress right dress")
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