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Thread: Auto bailout collapses in Senate

  1. #1
    Junior Member MadDoctor's Avatar
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    Auto bailout collapses in Senate

    http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/11/news...nate/index.htm

    For this auto bill to pass... I'm guessing no less than 5 "rider bills" will be attached.

    Perhaps aid to a factory in Billings that makes waterproof aspirin. Another to a company in Kentucky that rolls out square donuts. The possibilities are limitless!

    (more to come)
    People will forget what you said... and people will forget what you did... but people will never forget how you made them feel.

  2. #2
    Official Photographer Dakota's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadDoctor View Post
    http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/11/news...nate/index.htm

    For this auto bill to pass... I'm guessing no less than 5 "rider bills" will be attached.

    Perhaps aid to a factory in Billings that makes waterproof aspirin. Another to a company in Kentucky that rolls out square donuts. The possibilities are limitless!

    (more to come)
    In a perfect world yes.

    Ridiculous yes.

    US itself, collapses. Probably.
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  3. #3
    Maneater JawZ's Avatar
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    Well.....the UAW is refusing to budge. They won't take pay cuts until 2011. From my understanding, that is 1 year after they were to assume the funding of their own retirement pensions.


    What bothers me now about this development is that it doesn't seem to me that anybody involved in this is looking for a solution but rather decide on who gets to be the bad guy.


    This is not the time for saving face.

    ...formerly the omnipotent UOD

  4. #4
    ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ downhill's Avatar
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    Ummm....I'm not sure why they were ask to take cuts in the first place but from the article I read, it's not that they wouldn't, it's that they weren't given a time frame to accept the cuts. 2009 vs 2011 when current contracts are up.

  5. #5
    TypicalWhitePerson JC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by downhill View Post
    Ummm....I'm not sure why they were ask to take cuts in the first place
    Really
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    ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ downhill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JC View Post
    Really
    I figured it wouldn't be too long before you chirped in.

    Your hate of unions is pretty well documented on here. So tell me again, what are your thoughts on Reagan again? You never did answer that question.

    Personally I think that given a bit of time, most in the UAW would vote for consessions vs loosing their jobs. I can also understand the UAW's position. They can't just speak in a couple of hours for their whole membership.

    Of course Republican leadership in congress knows that full well. It's a union busting trick by those who would rather see a union go down than help an ailing economy.

    *See! What did I tell you! It's not the fault of the big three!!! It's the unions fault!" Partisan politics as usual.

    Holding American jobs at gun point seems pretty partisan to me but hey.........it's a mindset that isn't going away.

    I've an idea though, JC. How about Congress take a pay cut as well. They're the ones who are responsible for the whole economic melt down.


    That said, guess what? I'm sure Bush is going to dip into that 700 billion fund if the Senate doesn't act soon. That means, no consessions by the union, and no concessions that things will be different by the big three.

  7. #7
    TypicalWhitePerson JC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by downhill View Post
    I figured it wouldn't be too long before you chirped in.

    Your hate of unions is pretty well documented on here. So tell me again, what are your thoughts on Reagan again? You never did answer that question.

    Personally I think that given a bit of time, most in the UAW would vote for consessions vs loosing their jobs. I can also understand the UAW's position. They can't just speak in a couple of hours for their whole membership.

    Of course Republican leadership in congress knows that full well. It's a union busting trick by those who would rather see a union go down than help an ailing economy.

    *See! What did I tell you! It's not the fault of the big three!!! It's the unions fault!" Partisan politics as usual.

    Holding American jobs at gun point seems pretty partisan to me but hey.........it's a mindset that isn't going away.

    I've an idea though, JC. How about Congress take a pay cut as well. They're the ones who are responsible for the whole economic melt down.


    That said, guess what? I'm sure Bush is going to dip into that 700 billion fund if the Senate doesn't act soon. That means, no consessions by the union, and no concessions that things will be different by the big three.


    I think all in all the Reagan era was great. Americans prospered in comparison to the days of Carter.
    Hate is a pretty strong word for my view on unions. My stepfather worked @ GM when I was in HS, and still does as well as my sister. That job put food on our table, and clothes on our backs. I believe all sides need to give a lot. I mean the UAW wants money from the tax payers, but won't take any cuts, c'mon. My business is directly related to the auto industry so it hurts me as well.
    Hell yeah congress should take cuts as well.
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  8. #8
    Moderator Roody's Avatar
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    I've taken a bit of a break from following this situation. Can someone explain why the unions won't take a pay cut?

  9. #9
    Ohh Hell yeah.. Sava700's Avatar
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    Union Greed.. imagin that

  10. #10
    SG Enthusiast Leatherneck's Avatar
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    Union = necessary evil

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  11. #11
    ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ downhill's Avatar
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    Sava, I don't think you are in a postion to explain to anyone about unions. lol

    Roody, who knows if they won't? Union leaders aren't exactly in a postion to just say, "Sure, we'll drop 4 bucks off of the pay of every member." I believe it would have to come down to a vote.

    Agian, it's just typical antiunion tactics by the Republican party. It's not exacly like they get any pac money from unions. lol Payback time.

    There is also this consensus among many Reps in congress that it's not that big a deal if Chrysler and GM claim chapter 11. Some of them think that those two companies will come out a lot leaner and more competitive. Of course that would kill the UAW and insiders think that's exactly what Republican leadership in the Senate is trying to do.

    Despite the fact that thousands and thousands of jobs are at risk.

  12. #12
    Ohh Hell yeah.. Sava700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by downhill View Post
    Sava, I don't think you are in a postion to explain to anyone about unions. lol

    .
    Yeah, I am.

    I've had direct involvement with the UAW for over 4 years..thats plenty of time to know how they work. I do say some of the things they try to do are for the good interest of its members but in the long run its nothing but greed drivin incentives and money into the pockets of the big wigs. Remember I've been in direct involvement with the auto industry for over 10years..so I have more than enough experience to back what I say.

  13. #13
    ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ downhill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sava700 View Post
    Union Greed.. imagin that
    Compared to what? Corporate America? LMAO!

    Dude, you are a walking, talking, double entendre. Greed is good, if it's corporate like Walmart. Greed is bad if it's collective to better lives, create safe working conditions, keep our kids from being used for hard labor, helps strengthen the middle class and last but not least it costs you 40 cents.

  14. #14
    ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ downhill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sava700 View Post
    Yeah, I am.

    I've had direct involvement with the UAW for over 4 years..thats plenty of time to know how they work. I do say some of the things they try to do are for the good interest of its members but in the long run its nothing but greed drivin incentives and money into the pockets of the big wigs. Remember I've been in direct involvement with the auto industry for over 10years..so I have more than enough experience to back what I say.
    The other side of the fence dosn't exactly mean you have any clue what unions are about. I'm also beginning to think that all this involvement is pure balderdash.

    Always speaking from the management side isn't exactly knowing what's going on or why.

  15. #15
    Ohh Hell yeah.. Sava700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by downhill View Post
    Compared to what? Corporate America? LMAO!

    Dude, you are a walking, talking, double entendre. Greed is good, if it's corporate like Walmart. Greed is bad if it's collective to better lives, create safe working conditions, keep our kids from being used for hard labor, helps strengthen the middle class and last but not least it costs you 40 cents.
    what the hell? Get hit in the head by that spittoon? Spend 40cents and get yourself an aspirin for the pain.

  16. #16
    ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ downhill's Avatar
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    Whatever you say, Sava. lol

  17. #17
    Ohh Hell yeah.. Sava700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by downhill View Post
    The other side of the fence dosn't exactly mean you have any clue what unions are about. I'm also beginning to think that all this involvement is pure balderdash.

    Always speaking from the management side isn't exactly knowing what's going on or why.
    I had friends who were part of the union, they all said the same thing once the UAW got in they didn't attempt to help them out one bit when things started getting hard..instead they tried to worm money out of the company anyway they could which again is nothing but Greed drivin and one reason why we shouldn't give one red cent to the Big3 cause it will go right into Ron's pocket. Doesn't surprise me they won't take a pay cut to retain a job in the long run...pretty stupid too.

    "I believe the president of the UAW, Ron Gettelfinger, was too unrealistic and too selfish," Morici said on The Early Show.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...es;secondStory
    Last edited by Sava700; 12-12-08 at 08:04 AM.

  18. #18
    Second Most EVIL YARDofSTUF's Avatar
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    The UAW should have made compromises. I think it would have helped this bailout get through the senate.

  19. #19
    Maneater JawZ's Avatar
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    I'm not going to jump to any conclusions because the fog of war is still thick in the media. So depending on what news outlet is reporting, the bias tends to distort the truth.


    In any case, I think a reasonable point can be made that the American people expect the UAW to make reasonable concessions in order to save their jobs.

    Personally I think pay is at the very bottom of the issues. No matter how much the UAW gets paid or doesn't get paid....the companies need to sell their product and find efficiencies.

    ...formerly the omnipotent UOD

  20. #20
    Moderator YeOldeStonecat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YARDofSTUF View Post
    The UAW should have made compromises. I think it would have helped this bailout get through the senate.
    Yup...all sides have to give a bit. We the public are giving with our tax dollars..which is out of our pocket. The UAW needs to stop worrying about keeping their wallets fat.

    Part of me wants to see the big 3 collapse purely to get the UAW where it hurts, if they don't "give" a little. UAW doesn't give in a bit..fine..pull the carpet out from under them..no more auto industry! Go pump gas or wash dishes.
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