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Thread: Houseboat repeater

  1. #1
    Mike Easter
    Guest

    Houseboat repeater

    A friend of mine has a lake 'cottage' which is a manufactured/mobile home
    on pontoons at a compound with a clubhouse, RV park, marina, campgrounds,
    etc. The houseboat is some 75 meters from the facility clubhouse which is
    equipped with fiberoptic access to the internet and some kind of wifi
    router and antenna signal distribution of unknown type.

    Inside his houseboat.he has problems with weak signal and poor thru'put to
    his Dell laptop LT. He does OK when he's at the clubhouse with it and
    others do OK in their similar hosueboats with their various LTs such as
    Macs. I don't know the modelno of his Dell, but it doesn't have any kind
    of external antenna connector for its builtin wireless.

    I've had good luck around my house with cheap Airlink devices which I've
    bought on sale at Fry's, and I am currently using an (Airlink) AP421W
    ethernet wired to my AR325W router to extend my LAN's wireless range to a
    roller unit with two KVMed computers which are using wireless PCI cards.

    So, I recently bought a AP431W which was on sale at Fry's to give/help him
    with his problem by using it as a repeater, but I think I want to enhance
    it before traveling to visit him there on the lake to help him install and
    configure it.

    My idea is to get a longer/taller omni antenna to replace its 4" and to
    enhance that with a reflector which is aimed at the clubhouse signal
    source. Here's a picture^1 of a simple reflector which has been slipped
    onto a taller omni antenna than the one which comes with the AP431W. I'm
    looking for a source for such a reflector which hopefully comes complete
    with taller antenna replacement. I'm also looking for any input here
    about ideas to contradict or support my notion for the AP431W as a
    repeater. This Airlink gizmo only cost $18 on sale.

    The reason I'm trying to go with a repeater rather than something
    unidirectional is because he wants to be able to use the LT wirelessly
    from one end to the other of the houseboat, including its decks front and
    rear. By using an omni which is reflector enhanced toward the clubhouse
    to acquire the signal, that same omni can transmit radiate thru-out the
    houseboat with the same antenna with the directional reflector.

    ^1 http://binarywolf.com/249/images/reflector.jpg

    Earlier I had considered him ordering a Hawking [HWU8DD] Hi-Gain USB
    Wireless-G Dish Adapter -- but as I envisioned how he was using the LT, I
    saw some limitations of that idea.


    --
    Mike Easter


  2. #2
    Mike Easter
    Guest

    Re: Houseboat repeater

    Mike Easter wrote:

    > My idea is to get a longer/taller omni antenna to replace its 4" and to
    > enhance that with a reflector which is aimed at the clubhouse signal
    > source. Here's a picture^1 of a simple reflector which has been slipped
    > onto a taller omni antenna than the one which comes with the AP431W.
    > I'm looking for a source for such a reflector which hopefully comes
    > complete with taller antenna replacement. I'm also looking for any
    > input here about ideas to contradict or support my notion for the
    > AP431W as a repeater. This Airlink gizmo only cost $18 on sale.


    I'm learning that it is very easy to fabricate such a reflector, but if I
    want a significantly taller antenna, it will probably cost more than the
    repeater did.

    I'm also reading some criticisms directed at the imprecision of amateur
    DIY antenna fabrications.



    --
    Mike Easter


  3. #3
    seaweedsl
    Guest

    Re: Houseboat repeater

    On Dec 10, 1:47*am, "Mike Easter" <Mi...@ster.invalid> wrote:
    > A friend of mine has a lake 'cottage' which is a manufactured/mobile home
    > on pontoons at a compound with a clubhouse, RV park, marina, campgrounds,
    > etc. *The houseboat is some 75 meters from the facility clubhouse whichis
    > equipped with fiberoptic access to the internet and some kind of wifi
    > router and antenna signal distribution of unknown type.
    >
    > Inside his houseboat.he has problems with weak signal and poor thru'put to
    > his Dell laptop LT. *He does OK when he's at the clubhouse with it and
    > others do OK in their similar hosueboats with their various LTs such as
    > Macs. *I don't know the modelno of his Dell, but it doesn't have any kind
    > of external antenna connector for its builtin wireless.
    >
    > I've had good luck around my house with cheap Airlink devices which I've
    > bought on sale at Fry's, and I am currently using an (Airlink) AP421W
    > ethernet wired to my AR325W router to extend my LAN's wireless range to a
    > roller unit with two KVMed computers which are using wireless PCI cards.
    >
    > So, I recently bought a AP431W which was on sale at Fry's to give/help him
    > with his problem by using it as a repeater, but I think I want to enhance
    > it before traveling to visit him there on the lake to help him install and
    > configure it.
    >
    > My idea is to get a longer/taller omni antenna to replace its 4" and to
    > enhance that with a reflector which is aimed at the clubhouse signal
    > source. *Here's a picture^1 of a simple reflector which has been slipped
    > onto a taller omni antenna than the one which comes with the AP431W. *I'm
    > looking for a source for such a reflector which hopefully comes complete
    > with taller antenna replacement. *I'm also looking for any input here
    > about ideas to contradict or support my notion for the AP431W as a
    > repeater. *This Airlink gizmo only cost $18 on sale.
    >
    > The reason I'm trying to go with a repeater rather than something
    > unidirectional is because he wants to be able to use the LT wirelessly
    > from one end to the other of the houseboat, including its decks front and
    > rear. *By using an omni which is reflector enhanced toward the clubhouse
    > to acquire the signal, that same omni can transmit radiate thru-out the
    > houseboat with the same antenna with the directional reflector.
    >
    > ^1http://binarywolf.com/249/images/reflector.jpg
    >
    > Earlier I had considered him ordering a Hawking [HWU8DD] Hi-Gain USB
    > Wireless-G Dish Adapter -- but as I envisioned how he was using the LT, I
    > saw some limitations of that idea.
    >
    > --
    > Mike Easter



    I've tried reflectors with stock 2dbi omnis and with a 7 dbi omni
    (longer, as you say) it seemed to work just as well or better with
    the 2dbi. Just make a reflector:
    http://users.picknowl.com.au/~gloaming_agnet/ant2.html
    http://www.freeantennas.com/projects...te2/index.html

    Part of the issue using a reflector on a repeater will be get line of
    sight to the central antenna as well to the local area you wish to
    cover. Make it work, possibly, by siting the device at the far end of
    the house from the central antenna to cover the house as well.

    I don't know how reliable the AirLink repeater you intend to use or if
    it will handle the requisite WPA security. I would be going for a DD-
    WRT powered router (google) as the repeater bridge mode is now working
    well with WPA on V24.

    A better option would be to use two devices. Put one up high outside
    (in a weatherproof antenna box) as a client and ethernet cable it to
    an AP inside the house for local coverage.

    For the exterior device, I'd be thinking about your Airlink in a
    rootenna box or else a Nanostation Loco (or one of the other
    variations). Google 'em.

    Cheers,
    Steve


  4. #4
    John Navas
    Guest

    Re: Houseboat repeater

    On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 23:47:39 -0800, "Mike Easter" <MikeE@ster.invalid>
    wrote in <84udnc5rcrOI6aLUnZ2dnUVZ_tHinZ2d@earthlink.com>:

    >A friend of mine has a lake 'cottage' which is a manufactured/mobile home
    >on pontoons at a compound with a clubhouse, RV park, marina, campgrounds,
    >etc. The houseboat is some 75 meters from the facility clubhouse which is
    >equipped with fiberoptic access to the internet and some kind of wifi
    >router and antenna signal distribution of unknown type.
    >
    >Inside his houseboat.he has problems with weak signal and poor thru'put to
    >his Dell laptop LT. ...


    See Wi-Fi on a Boat at <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_on_a_Boat>
    --
    Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://wireless.navas.us>
    John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi>
    Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
    Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

  5. #5
    Mike Easter
    Guest

    Re: Houseboat repeater

    John Navas wrote:
    > "Mike Easter"


    >> Inside his houseboat.he has problems with weak signal and poor
    >> thru'put to his Dell laptop LT. ...

    >
    > See Wi-Fi on a Boat at <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_on_a_Boat>


    Nice site; lotsa stuff there -- somehow I missed it in my searches.
    Thanks.

    I'm looking around your wiki for something on repeaters, but it is in the
    ToDo condition.

    I think he is going to be able to get by without anything outside. This
    houseboat doesn't even have a motor; it is always going to be at the
    dock. It is possible that its 'slip' may be changed to one which is
    slightly nearer or slightly further away from the signal in the future.



    --
    Mike Easter


  6. #6
    John Navas
    Guest

    Re: Houseboat repeater

    On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:13:08 -0800, "Mike Easter" <MikeE@ster.invalid>
    wrote in <Bc2dnSzH8uQAZaLUnZ2dnUVZ_qDinZ2d@earthlink.com>:

    >John Navas wrote:
    >> "Mike Easter"

    >
    >>> Inside his houseboat.he has problems with weak signal and poor
    >>> thru'put to his Dell laptop LT. ...

    >>
    >> See Wi-Fi on a Boat at <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_on_a_Boat>

    >
    >Nice site; lotsa stuff there -- somehow I missed it in my searches.
    >Thanks.
    >
    >I'm looking around your wiki for something on repeaters, but it is in the
    >ToDo condition.


    Probably because we try to avoid repeaters if possible -- repeaters
    generate wireless pollution, cut speed in half, generally won't work
    with a directional antenna, and can be incompatible with security --
    which is why Wi-Fi on a Boat recommends a wireless client bridge
    back-to-back to a wireless access point.

    >I think he is going to be able to get by without anything outside. This
    >houseboat doesn't even have a motor; it is always going to be at the
    >dock. It is possible that its 'slip' may be changed to one which is
    >slightly nearer or slightly further away from the signal in the future.


    Your idea of using a reflector with the antenna on the repeater is a
    potential problem, because it will create a signal shadow behind the
    reflector. It might still work with proper positioning, but I would
    first just try a high-gain omni. Even then it would be good to keep the
    laptop at least several feet from the repeater to avoid signal overload.
    --
    Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://wireless.navas.us>
    John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi>
    Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
    Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

  7. #7
    Mike Easter
    Guest

    Re: Houseboat repeater

    John Navas wrote:
    > "Mike Easter"


    >> I'm looking around your wiki for something on repeaters, but it is in
    >> the ToDo condition.

    >
    > Probably because we try to avoid repeaters if possible -- repeaters
    > generate wireless pollution,


    I understand that concept.

    > cut speed in half,


    I would like to understand that.

    > generally won't work
    > with a directional antenna,


    I understand that concept.

    > and can be incompatible with security --


    I don't think I understand that part.

    > which is why Wi-Fi on a Boat recommends a wireless client bridge
    > back-to-back to a wireless access point.


    At one point I considered buying two of those AP431W because it was so
    cheap and allegedly so multipurpose.

    >> I think he is going to be able to get by without anything outside.
    >> This houseboat doesn't even have a motor; it is always going to be at
    >> the dock. It is possible that its 'slip' may be changed to one which
    >> is slightly nearer or slightly further away from the signal in the
    >> future.

    >
    > Your idea of using a reflector with the antenna on the repeater is a
    > potential problem, because it will create a signal shadow behind the
    > reflector. It might still work with proper positioning, but I would
    > first just try a high-gain omni. Even then it would be good to keep the
    > laptop at least several feet from the repeater to avoid signal overload.


    It turns out the topography is to put the signal to the east. Orient the
    (mobilehome) houseboat east-west with glass doubledoor sliders on the east
    end and/but the west end being the living room, deck (porch), and most
    commonly used general area for the LT.

    My current thinking is placement of the AP431W at the east end with a
    taller antenna and put two reflectors as illustrated; one at the top
    aimed at the east source and one lower aimed at the west end of the
    houseboat. I'm understanding that the manufactured houseboat roof is
    metal. Maybe the whole exterior is metal, like a motorhome.



    --
    Mike Easter


  8. #8
    John Navas
    Guest

    Re: Houseboat repeater

    On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:50:21 -0800, "Mike Easter" <MikeE@ster.invalid>
    wrote in <5LCdnbL4K5oYtt3UnZ2dnUVZ_rydnZ2d@earthlink.com>:

    >John Navas wrote:


    >> Probably because we try to avoid repeaters if possible -- repeaters
    >> ...
    >> cut speed in half,

    >
    >I would like to understand that.


    Be rebroadcasting everything they double wireless traffic, thereby
    cutting throughput in half. It probably won't matter for your friend
    for Internet access, but it might well impact others on wireless, making
    your friend not a good neighbor.

    >> and can be incompatible with security --

    >
    >I don't think I understand that part.


    Many repeaters don't support WPA.

    >> which is why Wi-Fi on a Boat recommends a wireless client bridge
    >> back-to-back to a wireless access point.

    >
    >At one point I considered buying two of those AP431W because it was so
    >cheap and allegedly so multipurpose.


    Most wireless routers will _not_ work as client bridges.

    >> Your idea of using a reflector with the antenna on the repeater is a
    >> potential problem, because it will create a signal shadow behind the
    >> reflector. It might still work with proper positioning, but I would
    >> first just try a high-gain omni. Even then it would be good to keep the
    >> laptop at least several feet from the repeater to avoid signal overload.

    >
    >It turns out the topography is to put the signal to the east. Orient the
    >(mobilehome) houseboat east-west with glass doubledoor sliders on the east
    >end and/but the west end being the living room, deck (porch), and most
    >commonly used general area for the LT.
    >
    >My current thinking is placement of the AP431W at the east end with a
    >taller antenna and put two reflectors as illustrated; one at the top
    >aimed at the east source and one lower aimed at the west end of the
    >houseboat. I'm understanding that the manufactured houseboat roof is
    >metal. Maybe the whole exterior is metal, like a motorhome.


    I'm not a radio expert, but my guess is that your double reflectors will
    make a mess of the signal. Even in theory it doesn't make sense to me.
    I think a high-gain omni is a much better bet.
    --
    Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://wireless.navas.us>
    John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi>
    Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
    Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

  9. #9
    Mike Easter
    Guest

    Re: Houseboat repeater

    John Navas wrote:

    Thanks for your help and information.

    > "Mike Easter"
    >> John Navas wrote:


    >>> and can be incompatible with security --

    >>
    >> I don't think I understand that part.

    >
    > Many repeaters don't support WPA.


    The AP431W does support WPA and it does claim to configure as a repeater,
    but I haven't yet explored its /actual/ configurability to determine if
    the WPA is available in that mode.

    >>> which is why Wi-Fi on a Boat recommends a wireless client bridge
    >>> back-to-back to a wireless access point.

    >>
    >> At one point I considered buying two of those AP431W because it was so
    >> cheap and allegedly so multipurpose.

    >
    > Most wireless routers will _not_ work as client bridges.


    I don't know much of anything about bridges at this stage except that the
    AP431W claims to (also) be able to be one or two different types of
    bridges, a WDS bridge or a WDS with AP. But I don't know enough about
    bridges to understand that yet. I can look at the graphic for that mode,
    but that isn't the same as comprehending.

    >> It turns out the topography is to put the signal to the east. Orient
    >> the (mobilehome) houseboat east-west with glass doubledoor sliders on
    >> the east end and/but the west end being the living room, deck (porch),
    >> and most commonly used general area for the LT.
    >>
    >> My current thinking is placement of the AP431W at the east end with a
    >> taller antenna and put two reflectors as illustrated; one at the top
    >> aimed at the east source and one lower aimed at the west end of the
    >> houseboat. I'm understanding that the manufactured houseboat roof is
    >> metal. Maybe the whole exterior is metal, like a motorhome.

    >
    > I'm not a radio expert, but my guess is that your double reflectors will
    > make a mess of the signal. Even in theory it doesn't make sense to me.
    > I think a high-gain omni is a much better bet.


    I'm definitely headed in that direction. The higher gain -
    taller/better - omni antenna is the first enhancement on my list. Maybe
    that's all that would be needed, and one could easily create/fabricate
    experimental reflectors to trial compare.

    Since I've been reading about these little homemade reflectors, my access
    point here at home would lend itself to experimenting with that effect on
    an ordinary little omni antenna.

    I noticed that your website mentioned hawking and linksys as sources for
    omni antennas. I see the linksys HGA7S as a higher gain/ taller omni.
    I'm assuming that there aren't signal related incompatibilities between
    one little omni type and some other bigger omni type if the connector is
    the same.


    --
    Mike Easter


  10. #10
    John Navas
    Guest

    Re: Houseboat repeater

    On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:41:31 -0800, "Mike Easter" <MikeE@ster.invalid>
    wrote in <XqWdneHoE-Yeqt3UnZ2dnUVZ_sninZ2d@earthlink.com>:

    >John Navas wrote:


    >> Most wireless routers will _not_ work as client bridges.

    >
    >I don't know much of anything about bridges at this stage except that the
    >AP431W claims to (also) be able to be one or two different types of
    >bridges, a WDS bridge or a WDS with AP. But I don't know enough about
    >bridges to understand that yet. I can look at the graphic for that mode,
    >but that isn't the same as comprehending.


    WDS = repeater, not client (Ethernet) bridge
    <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi#Wireless_Bridge_Types>
    <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi#Wireless_Ethernet_Bridges>

    >> I'm not a radio expert, but my guess is that your double reflectors will
    >> make a mess of the signal. Even in theory it doesn't make sense to me.
    >> I think a high-gain omni is a much better bet.

    >
    >I'm definitely headed in that direction. The higher gain -
    >taller/better - omni antenna is the first enhancement on my list. Maybe
    >that's all that would be needed, and one could easily create/fabricate
    >experimental reflectors to trial compare.
    >
    >Since I've been reading about these little homemade reflectors, my access
    >point here at home would lend itself to experimenting with that effect on
    >an ordinary little omni antenna.


    One reflector = good
    Two reflectors pointing in different direction = bad (I think)

    >I noticed that your website mentioned hawking and linksys as sources for
    >omni antennas. I see the linksys HGA7S as a higher gain/ taller omni.


    Lots of other folks too.

    >I'm assuming that there aren't signal related incompatibilities between
    >one little omni type and some other bigger omni type if the connector is
    >the same.


    Correct. Keep the cable as short as possible to avoid big signal loss.
    --
    Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://wireless.navas.us>
    John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi>
    Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
    Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

  11. #11
    Peter Pan
    Guest

    Re: Houseboat repeater

    Mike Easter wrote:
    > A friend of mine has a lake 'cottage' which is a manufactured/mobile
    > home on pontoons at a compound with a clubhouse, RV park, marina,
    > campgrounds, etc. The houseboat is some 75 meters from the facility
    > clubhouse which is equipped with fiberoptic access to the internet
    > and some kind of wifi router and antenna signal distribution of
    > unknown type.
    >
    > Inside his houseboat.he has problems with weak signal and poor
    > thru'put to his Dell laptop LT. He does OK when he's at the
    > clubhouse with it and others do OK in their similar hosueboats with
    > their various LTs such as Macs. I don't know the modelno of his
    > Dell, but it doesn't have any kind of external antenna connector for
    > its builtin wireless.
    >
    > I've had good luck around my house with cheap Airlink devices which
    > I've bought on sale at Fry's, and I am currently using an (Airlink)
    > AP421W ethernet wired to my AR325W router to extend my LAN's wireless
    > range to a roller unit with two KVMed computers which are using
    > wireless PCI cards.
    >
    > So, I recently bought a AP431W which was on sale at Fry's to
    > give/help him with his problem by using it as a repeater, but I think
    > I want to enhance it before traveling to visit him there on the lake
    > to help him install and configure it.
    >
    > My idea is to get a longer/taller omni antenna to replace its 4" and
    > to enhance that with a reflector which is aimed at the clubhouse
    > signal source. Here's a picture^1 of a simple reflector which has
    > been slipped onto a taller omni antenna than the one which comes with
    > the AP431W. I'm looking for a source for such a reflector which
    > hopefully comes complete with taller antenna replacement. I'm also
    > looking for any input here about ideas to contradict or support my
    > notion for the AP431W as a repeater. This Airlink gizmo only cost
    > $18 on sale.
    >
    > The reason I'm trying to go with a repeater rather than something
    > unidirectional is because he wants to be able to use the LT wirelessly
    > from one end to the other of the houseboat, including its decks front
    > and rear. By using an omni which is reflector enhanced toward the
    > clubhouse to acquire the signal, that same omni can transmit radiate
    > thru-out the houseboat with the same antenna with the directional
    > reflector.
    >
    > ^1 http://binarywolf.com/249/images/reflector.jpg
    >
    > Earlier I had considered him ordering a Hawking [HWU8DD] Hi-Gain USB
    > Wireless-G Dish Adapter -- but as I envisioned how he was using the
    > LT, I saw some limitations of that idea.


    Have you considered a rather cheap (but not free) alternative? in my RV
    (probably similar to the houseboat) I got a wap/router at walmart (linksys
    wrt54g) and have it in the rv to provide a good signal thruout the RV, and
    directional antennas to the wap/router.. When in an RV park/near a hotspot
    etc just repeat the signal nearby/from the clubhouse (or when home, just
    plug into my wired network)



  12. #12
    Mike Easter
    Guest

    Re: Houseboat repeater

    Peter Pan wrote:
    > Mike Easter wrote:


    >> Inside his houseboat.he has problems with weak signal and poor
    >> thru'put to his Dell laptop LT.


    > Have you considered a rather cheap (but not free) alternative? in my RV
    > (probably similar to the houseboat) I got a wap/router at walmart
    > (linksys wrt54g) and have it in the rv to provide a good signal thruout
    > the RV, and directional antennas to the wap/router.. When in an RV
    > park/near a hotspot etc just repeat the signal nearby/from the
    > clubhouse (or when home, just plug into my wired network)


    I don't have a picture of what you are talking about there.

    My real life experiences in this wireless business have been limited to a
    wired/wireless router which is putting out a signal which I catch with
    nearby PCI wireless cards, which later expanded to a wired access point so
    that the wireless cards could be more remote from the router.

    This business of trying to acquire a wireless signal and then 'move it
    over' to somewhere else is foreign to me. I don't have an idea yet of how
    you can put a directional antenna somewhere 'outside over yonder' and
    bring its signal 'inside here' to a centrally located place as you would
    want a wireless router. I tho't these antenna connxns were supposed to be
    short.

    This mobile home isn't really quite the same as an RV. I guess it must be
    about 60 feet long with a narrow hallway which passes between its two
    'halves' on one end, meaning a number of walls that have to be penetrated
    if you were going to move a signal acquired on one end to be distributed
    in the general area of the other end.

    I'm also hearing that it is very common for mobile home type construction
    to be lined with foil type insulation. Also, these mobile home houseboats
    are 'lined up' at the dock/s, with a space for a gangplank walkway in
    between them, so if their outside walls don't penetrate well, then there
    is a wall 60 feet thick and say 10 feet tall and a couple of hundred feet
    long between the signal side and the lake side (the other end of a
    houseboat) where the laptopper likes to hang out.



    --
    Mike Easter


  13. #13
    seaweedsl
    Guest

    Re: Houseboat repeater

    On Dec 11, 8:34*am, "Mike Easter" <Mi...@ster.invalid> wrote:
    > This business of trying to acquire a wireless signal and then 'move it
    > over' to somewhere else is foreign to me. *I don't have an idea yet of how
    > you can put a directional antenna somewhere 'outside over yonder' and
    > bring its signal 'inside here' to a centrally located place as you would
    > want a wireless router. *I tho't these antenna connxns were supposed tobe
    > short.
    >



    The way you "move it over" as you say, is done by ethernet cable,
    which easily goes over 100 meters with zero loss. You locate your
    client outside, under an eave or inside at a window pointing to the
    source antenna/clubhouse etc. The client adapter, also known as a
    wireless ethernet bridge converts the radio signal to ethernet. You
    then run your cable whereever you want and feed that ethernet to a
    cheap AP (like your Airling) which turns it back into a radio signal
    that is optimally aimed for your local user areas on a different
    channel.

    It's really pretty easy to setup and by not trying to talk in two
    directions with one radio and one antenna, you bypass several
    issues.

    In effect, you are fabricating a two radio repeater instead of a
    single radio repeater. Being on a different channel reduces
    interference issues.

    Single radio repeaters, usually working in WDS (Wireless Distribution
    System- a special mode that allows devices to form a mesh, I guess-
    I'm not clear myself, but it's a special mode with it's own standard)
    WILL work, but have trouble working with WPA wireless security. Even
    when they do work, they tend to be flaky and need to be restarted to
    synchronize again, when using WPA.

    The exception is the DD-WRT firmware (perhaps others) that offer a NON-
    WDS repeating mode as well as WDS. The NON-WDS works and I have one
    linksys running in that mode on our local network now. I only use it
    for one person and he is at a distance from the rest of the clients.

    It's not easy to understand, but there are at least three ways to
    securely pass a signal from outside to inside:

    1) Single radio, WPA (typical, but no decent reliable security,
    thruput cut in half, same channel)

    2) Single radio repeater bridge mode (DD-WRT style - which does work
    reliably in WPA, thruput halved still, same channel still)

    3) Two radio (or back to back) repeaters made of client and AP radios
    connected by cable (All security possible, no loss of thruput,
    different channel)

    Back to your antenna for connecting to the clubhouse as they say. If
    you are dedicating a device as a client only, then I wonder if a high
    gain omni might cause problems due to a narrow beamwidth and even a
    slightly rocking boat at the distance you specified. It would be
    cheaper and make more sense ( to me) to use a 10-12 panel antenna with
    a wide vertical (as well as H) beam.

    The reflectors mentioned will effectivly turn a stock omni into a
    panel antenna type pattern and work well with stock antennas. These
    reflectors seem to be reliably easy to fabricate and are not subject
    to the amateur antenna builder errors that you refer to. I would
    consider one if the client bridge device was to be located inside a
    window instead of outside.

    It's really pretty easy. Get a client adapter/bridge. Put it in the
    window facing the clubhouse with a reflector on it. Cable it to a
    cheap AP and locate that where you get good coverage in the trailer
    home. If reception is still not good enough on the client, then buy a
    14-19 dbi panel antenna and put it on the client instead of the
    reflector/omni combo.

    Steve

  14. #14
    John Navas
    Guest

    Re: Houseboat repeater

    On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:32:09 -0500, "Peter Pan"
    <PeterPanNOSPAM@MarcAlanNOSPAM.info> wrote in
    <8ZGdnfHNabkC8N3UnZ2dnUVZ_sninZ2d@earthlink.com>:

    >Have you considered a rather cheap (but not free) alternative? in my RV
    >(probably similar to the houseboat) I got a wap/router at walmart (linksys
    >wrt54g) and have it in the rv to provide a good signal thruout the RV, and
    >directional antennas to the wap/router.. ...


    How exactly do you do that? Two antennas?
    --
    Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://wireless.navas.us>
    John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi>
    Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
    Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

  15. #15
    Mike Easter
    Guest

    Re: Houseboat repeater

    Mike Easter wrote:

    > Also, these mobile
    > home houseboats are 'lined up' at the dock/s, with a space for a
    > gangplank walkway in between them,


    Just to add a little more flavoring to the mix; these houseboats are all
    equipped with cable TV, but I don't exactly know how it works. It may be
    that the facility has a sat dish and some kind of distribution system that
    it distributes the satellite signal to all of the houseboats.

    My friend and his pals who are paying HOA homeownersassoc dues for the
    amenities are wanting some answers and improvements. Apparently almost
    all of the LTs laptops (he has talked to about 10 owners) have signal
    strength problems, not just the Dell, and/but one Mac LT does OK.

    Does it seem possible that the internet connectivity and the cable/sat TV
    signal could be distributed over the same cable? My cableco doesn't have
    any problem doing that.


    --
    Mike Easter


  16. #16
    John Navas
    Guest

    Re: Houseboat repeater

    On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:25:03 -0800, "Mike Easter" <MikeE@ster.invalid>
    wrote in <NaKdna9MQIxox9zUnZ2dnUVZ_vzinZ2d@earthlink.com>:

    >Mike Easter wrote:
    >
    >> Also, these mobile
    >> home houseboats are 'lined up' at the dock/s, with a space for a
    >> gangplank walkway in between them,

    >
    >Just to add a little more flavoring to the mix; these houseboats are all
    >equipped with cable TV, but I don't exactly know how it works. It may be
    >that the facility has a sat dish and some kind of distribution system that
    >it distributes the satellite signal to all of the houseboats.


    Typical marina systems are coax to all slips from a central distribution
    amp, usually hooked up to cable or DBS.

    >Does it seem possible that the internet connectivity and the cable/sat TV
    >signal could be distributed over the same cable?


    Yes. See
    <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_How_To#Add_additional_Wi-Fi_access_points_.28to_increase_coverage.29>
    --
    Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://wireless.navas.us>
    John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi>
    Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
    Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

  17. #17
    Peter Pan
    Guest

    Re: Houseboat repeater

    Mike Easter wrote:
    > Peter Pan wrote:
    >> Mike Easter wrote:

    >
    >>> Inside his houseboat.he has problems with weak signal and poor
    >>> thru'put to his Dell laptop LT.

    >
    >> Have you considered a rather cheap (but not free) alternative? in my
    >> RV (probably similar to the houseboat) I got a wap/router at walmart
    >> (linksys wrt54g) and have it in the rv to provide a good signal
    >> thruout the RV, and directional antennas to the wap/router.. When in
    >> an RV park/near a hotspot etc just repeat the signal nearby/from the
    >> clubhouse (or when home, just plug into my wired network)

    >
    > I don't have a picture of what you are talking about there.
    >
    > My real life experiences in this wireless business have been limited
    > to a wired/wireless router which is putting out a signal which I
    > catch with nearby PCI wireless cards, which later expanded to a wired
    > access point so that the wireless cards could be more remote from the
    > router.
    >
    > This business of trying to acquire a wireless signal and then 'move it
    > over' to somewhere else is foreign to me. I don't have an idea yet
    > of how you can put a directional antenna somewhere 'outside over
    > yonder' and bring its signal 'inside here' to a centrally located
    > place as you would want a wireless router. I tho't these antenna
    > connxns were supposed to be short.
    >
    > This mobile home isn't really quite the same as an RV. I guess it
    > must be about 60 feet long with a narrow hallway which passes between
    > its two 'halves' on one end, meaning a number of walls that have to
    > be penetrated if you were going to move a signal acquired on one end
    > to be distributed in the general area of the other end.
    >
    > I'm also hearing that it is very common for mobile home type
    > construction to be lined with foil type insulation. Also, these
    > mobile home houseboats are 'lined up' at the dock/s, with a space for
    > a gangplank walkway in between them, so if their outside walls don't
    > penetrate well, then there is a wall 60 feet thick and say 10 feet
    > tall and a couple of hundred feet long between the signal side and
    > the lake side (the other end of a houseboat) where the laptopper
    > likes to hang out.


    A Bit more info, my home was a trailer in northern idaho (60 ft long, ice
    peirs, septic tank etc., with a steel snow roof, and foil backed insulation
    on/in the outside walls(not the inside) so no wireless or cellphone signals
    thru it), the RV was a fleetwood MH (not good in the 42 inches of snow we
    had most winters, very thin walls and no insulation, so it was lighter for
    travel) had a wap/router inside the main house/big trailer, and another one
    inside the rv, when home, parked the MH by the big trailer and connected by
    cat5 cable to the one in the house/avoiding the hassle of wireless... When
    out and about had a wap/router in the mh, (linksys wrt54g has removable
    antenna, just the antenna part was outside/on the roof of the rv (actually
    mounted on the tv antenna mast so i could turn it)... point is I had a
    wap/router inside the RV, and used a "bridge" to anything outside (whether
    it be a cable/antennas/powerline links/etc), you could always connect to the
    local wap/router from inside the rv or trailer, and then it's only one
    connection from the local wap to whatever provides the signal
    sat/cable/dsl/wireless/etc)...




  18. #18
    Peter Pan
    Guest

    Re: Houseboat repeater

    John Navas wrote:
    > On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:32:09 -0500, "Peter Pan"
    > <PeterPanNOSPAM@MarcAlanNOSPAM.info> wrote in
    > <8ZGdnfHNabkC8N3UnZ2dnUVZ_sninZ2d@earthlink.com>:
    >
    >> Have you considered a rather cheap (but not free) alternative? in my
    >> RV (probably similar to the houseboat) I got a wap/router at walmart
    >> (linksys wrt54g) and have it in the rv to provide a good signal
    >> thruout the RV, and directional antennas to the wap/router.. ...

    >
    > How exactly do you do that? Two antennas?


    Depends on the situation, the linksys wrt54g (not the gs) was only $44 at
    walmart, by having one inside, it always gives a good signal/connection....
    In some cases i use another wap/router as a bridge/powerline/sat/cat 5 cable
    etc to give it input... I would think that an RV like a boat/waves you never
    know what/where the source will be, so I look at maximizing what I can
    control, and take whatever signal I can get to it....

    The fastest consumer connection i have ever seen (so far) is a 20mBPS fios,
    so about half of 54 (more like 21 actual) when using a repeater is still
    gonna be faster than the internet source, so if you aren't transferring
    between machines, why would faster than that be needed?



  19. #19
    John Navas
    Guest

    Re: Houseboat repeater

    On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:53:53 -0500, "Peter Pan"
    <PeterPanNOSPAM@MarcAlanNOSPAM.info> wrote in
    <sf-dnR6afNt14NzUnZ2dnUVZ_gOdnZ2d@earthlink.com>:

    >John Navas wrote:
    >> On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:32:09 -0500, "Peter Pan"
    >> <PeterPanNOSPAM@MarcAlanNOSPAM.info> wrote in
    >> <8ZGdnfHNabkC8N3UnZ2dnUVZ_sninZ2d@earthlink.com>:
    >>
    >>> Have you considered a rather cheap (but not free) alternative? in my
    >>> RV (probably similar to the houseboat) I got a wap/router at walmart
    >>> (linksys wrt54g) and have it in the rv to provide a good signal
    >>> thruout the RV, and directional antennas to the wap/router.. ...

    >>
    >> How exactly do you do that? Two antennas?

    >
    >Depends on the situation, the linksys wrt54g (not the gs) was only $44 at
    >walmart, by having one inside, it always gives a good signal/connection....
    >In some cases i use another wap/router as a bridge/powerline/sat/cat 5 cable
    >etc to give it input... I would think that an RV like a boat/waves you never
    >know what/where the source will be, so I look at maximizing what I can
    >control, and take whatever signal I can get to it....


    That sounds like a wireless Ethernet client bridge cabled to a wireless
    access point (or router) -- just connecting two routers back to back
    won't work -- a wireless Ethernet client bridge is needed to connect to
    the remote wireless. This is covered in the wiki I posted way back at
    the beginning of this thread.
    --
    Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://wireless.navas.us>
    John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi>
    Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
    Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

  20. #20
    Peter Pan
    Guest

    Re: Houseboat repeater

    John Navas wrote:
    > On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:53:53 -0500, "Peter Pan"
    > <PeterPanNOSPAM@MarcAlanNOSPAM.info> wrote in
    > <sf-dnR6afNt14NzUnZ2dnUVZ_gOdnZ2d@earthlink.com>:
    >
    >> John Navas wrote:
    >>> On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:32:09 -0500, "Peter Pan"
    >>> <PeterPanNOSPAM@MarcAlanNOSPAM.info> wrote in
    >>> <8ZGdnfHNabkC8N3UnZ2dnUVZ_sninZ2d@earthlink.com>:
    >>>
    >>>> Have you considered a rather cheap (but not free) alternative? in
    >>>> my RV (probably similar to the houseboat) I got a wap/router at
    >>>> walmart (linksys wrt54g) and have it in the rv to provide a good
    >>>> signal thruout the RV, and directional antennas to the
    >>>> wap/router.. ...
    >>>
    >>> How exactly do you do that? Two antennas?

    >>
    >> Depends on the situation, the linksys wrt54g (not the gs) was only
    >> $44 at walmart, by having one inside, it always gives a good
    >> signal/connection.... In some cases i use another wap/router as a
    >> bridge or powerline/sat/cat 5/dsl/cable etc to give it input... I would
    >> think that an RV like a boat/waves you never know what/where the
    >> source will be, so I look at maximizing what I can control, and take
    >> whatever signal I can get to it....

    >
    > That sounds like a wireless Ethernet client bridge cabled to a
    > wireless access point (or router) -- just connecting two routers back
    > to back won't work -- a wireless Ethernet client bridge is needed to
    > connect to the remote wireless. This is covered in the wiki I posted
    > way back at the beginning of this thread.


    you mean i need a wireless bridge (instead of a cat 5 cable) to connect it
    to powerline/sat/cat 5/dsl/cable etc to give it input.... oh nooooooo! :)



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