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Thread: God and the Omnipotence paradox

  1. #1
    Maneater JawZ's Avatar
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    God and the Omnipotence paradox

    Can the almighty creator, create something more powerful then the creator itself?


    One of the greatest questions of all time...

    Can God create a stone so heavy that even he cannot lift it?


    I am curious as to how the religious followers explain how God can or cannot do certain things and how they relate to this paradox.


    So...is this true?

    God > Omnipotence
    Last edited by JawZ; 11-15-08 at 01:04 AM.

    ...formerly the omnipotent UOD

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    R.I.P. 2013-11-22 blebs's Avatar
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    UOD sometimes I wonder just what circulates in that mind of yours.

    The Borg collective would be easier to explain.

    Last edited by blebs; 11-15-08 at 08:48 AM.
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    Evan, are you ok? You are starting to worry me.

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    Certified SG Addict Brent's Avatar
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    The world omnipotence is never mentioned in the bible. This is something man has attached to God. There are things God cannot do, for example he cannot comit sin, he cannot lie.

    He can do whatever he determines to do though.

    But as men, we cannot truly understand God, we are very ignorant to his ways, and we cannot see the big picture from our perspective, we are not him and cannot think like him.
    "Would you mind not standing on my chest, my hats on fire." - The Doctor

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    SG Enthusiast Leatherneck's Avatar
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    Take a look around. Maybe we can see a fraction of the splendor that "some how" came to be. It's hard to wrap our minuscule minds around it all whether we believe it from chance or a creator. If God indeed spoke everything into creation then I'd say his power is above anything period. I'd also say that I can't wait to pick his brain!
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    Elite Member mountainman's Avatar
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    After we solve this, we can debate the chicken and the egg and the tree in the woods.

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    The Quiet One WhoNut's Avatar
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    Um...

    If you are a believer, the simple answer is that he is incomprehensible. If not, who cares?
    When they kick at your front door, how you gonna come? With your hands at your head, or the trigger of your gun?

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    Elite Member TonyT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UOD View Post
    Can the almighty creator, create something more powerful then the creator itself?


    One of the greatest questions of all time...

    Can God create a stone so heavy that even he cannot lift it?


    I am curious as to how the religious followers explain how God can or cannot do certain things and how they relate to this paradox.


    So...is this true?

    God > Omnipotence
    My answer applies to both man and to whatever one considers God to be.

    First, let's define CREATE.

    Create means: To cause to exist; bring into being.
    It does NOT mean MAGIC OF SUDDENLY THERE'S SOMETHING WHERE THERE WAS NOTHING.

    Both man and God have the ability to create.
    For example, some consider that God created the world we live in. This may or may not be true, but that has no bearing here. And a man can create a house by pouring a foundation, framing, wiring, etc. There was no house, the man did some work, there is now a house. And for God to have created the world we live in he/she/it would have had to DO something, would have had to perform some action to produce a world.

    Now, to create something more powerful than the one who created it, all that is necessary is for the creator to forget that he/she/it has created it. Or to intentionally or unintentionally not-know that he/she/it has any responsibility for the creation. Or quite simply, to cease creating it.

    This is easily demonstrated.

    A man and a woman create a marriage.
    They establish rules for the marriage, make agreements.
    They continue to create the marriage by communicating.
    They violate agreements.
    They communicate less.
    The marriage is created less.
    Unless remedied, the marriage cannot be controlled.
    The marriage, failed, is more powerful than its members.

    Bottom line is that for anything to continue to exist (survice) in this universe, it must continually be created, else will begin a course toward unexistence. Nothing in this universe is static. Even the desk you are sitting at is not static. It has molecules that are constantly changing position in space. And those molecules begin their path to destruction the instant you cease to care for that desk.
    Last edited by TonyT; 11-15-08 at 10:23 AM.
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  9. #9
    Maneater JawZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent View Post
    The world omnipotence is never mentioned in the bible. This is something man has attached to God. There are things God cannot do, for example he cannot comit sin, he cannot lie.

    He can do whatever he determines to do though.

    But as men, we cannot truly understand God, we are very ignorant to his ways, and we cannot see the big picture from our perspective, we are not him and cannot think like him.
    So God isn't omnipotent?

    If God cannot lie, then that is a limitation on God's power correct? Is that self imposed? Or.....does God have a creator?

    ...formerly the omnipotent UOD

  10. #10
    Maneater JawZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyT View Post
    My answer applies to both man and to whatever one considers God to be.

    First, let's define CREATE.

    Create means: To cause to exist; bring into being.
    It does NOT mean MAGIC OF SUDDENLY THERE'S SOMETHING WHERE THERE WAS NOTHING.

    Both man and God have the ability to create.
    For example, some consider that God created the world we live in. This may or may not be true, but that has no bearing here. And a man can create a house by pouring a foundation, framing, wiring, etc. There was no house, the man did some work, there is now a house. And for God to have created the world we live in he/she/it would have had to DO something, would have had to perform some action to produce a world.

    Now, to create something more powerful than the one who created it, all that is necessary is for the creator to forget that he/she/it has created it. Or to intentionally or unintentionally not-know that he/she/it has any responsibility for the creation. Or quite simply, to cease creating it.

    This is easily demonstrated.

    A man and a woman create a marriage.
    They establish rules for the marriage, make agreements.
    They continue to create the marriage by communicating.
    They violate agreements.
    They communicate less.
    The marriage is created less.
    Unless remedied, the marriage cannot be controlled.
    The marriage, failed, is more powerful than its members.

    Bottom line is that for anything to continue to exist (survice) in this universe, it must continually be created, else will begin a course toward unexistence. Nothing in this universe is static. Even the desk you are sitting at is not static. It has molecules that are constantly changing position in space. And those molecules begin their path to destruction the instant you cease to care for that desk.

    Constant change is evolution. This goes back to a convo we had years ago....does God evolve?

    ...formerly the omnipotent UOD

  11. #11
    SG Enthusiast Leatherneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UOD View Post
    So God isn't omnipotent?

    If God cannot lie, then that is a limitation on God's power correct? Is that self imposed? Or.....does God have a creator?
    Nah, just that he is perfect. Nothing less than perfect can be in him or in his presence or he would not be "God". As far as God having a creator? Not the God I know exists. Why would you expect to know the person of God? I am not being facetious, but rather sincere. We are created in God's image and the "potential" is probably unthinkable, but we choose to set up walls and the beauty is that we have that choice. The argument has been made for eons on why God can't just make us without sin or perfect. That would be cruel if you ask me. Without evil, you can't experience good, hate - no love etc...He wants communion with us because we want to. I seriously don't believe pure evolution gives us those choices. Wouldn't pure evolution strictly focus on survival? You'd "think" we would have at least shaken off the common cold by now? Oh crap, thread shift.
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  12. #12
    SG Enthusiast Leatherneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UOD View Post
    ....does God evolve?
    Ask him.
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  13. #13
    Dr Tweak mnosteele52's Avatar
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    This thread explains a lot.


  14. #14
    Second Most EVIL YARDofSTUF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent View Post
    The world omnipotence is never mentioned in the bible.
    Not specifically, but it is implied.

  15. #15
    Certified SG Addict Brent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UOD View Post
    So God isn't omnipotent?

    If God cannot lie, then that is a limitation on God's power correct? Is that self imposed? Or.....does God have a creator?
    But as men, we cannot truly understand God, we are very ignorant to his ways, and we cannot see the big picture from our perspective, we are not him and cannot think like him.
    I put that sentence in there because really the question is WHY would God create a rock he could not move?

    God does not create paradoxes, he creates logical things that make sense to us so we can understand them.
    "Would you mind not standing on my chest, my hats on fire." - The Doctor

  16. #16
    Maneater JawZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leatherneck View Post
    Nah, just that he is perfect. Nothing less than perfect can be in him or in his presence or he would not be "God". As far as God having a creator? Not the God I know exists. Why would you expect to know the person of God? I am not being facetious, but rather sincere. We are created in God's image and the "potential" is probably unthinkable, but we choose to set up walls and the beauty is that we have that choice. The argument has been made for eons on why God can't just make us without sin or perfect. That would be cruel if you ask me. Without evil, you can't experience good, hate - no love etc...He wants communion with us because we want to. I seriously don't believe pure evolution gives us those choices. Wouldn't pure evolution strictly focus on survival? You'd "think" we would have at least shaken off the common cold by now? Oh crap, thread shift.

    But what is perfection? Is perfection without error, without fault? If God is omnipotent, then God can do anything. If God cannot experience his own creations of sin, then is that not a limitation on his own power?

    Who said that God cannot lie or sin?

    ...formerly the omnipotent UOD

  17. #17
    Maneater JawZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent View Post
    I put that sentence in there because really the question is WHY would God create a rock he could not move?

    God does not create paradoxes, he creates logical things that make sense to us so we can understand them.

    But we don't understand God....

    Is WhoNut incorrect? He just said this:

    If you are a believer, the simple answer is that he is incomprehensible
    So if he is incomprehensible, then how is he logical?

    ...formerly the omnipotent UOD

  18. #18
    Certified SG Addict Brent's Avatar
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    I said he creates logical things so that we can understand

    He wouldn't create a paradox, cause that we could not understand

    There are certain things about him we do know that the Bible tells us, it definitely gives us a picture of the power and glory of God, and there are things he wants for us, the Bible provides these answers
    "Would you mind not standing on my chest, my hats on fire." - The Doctor

  19. #19
    Maneater JawZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent View Post
    I said he creates logical things so that we can understand

    He wouldn't create a paradox, cause that we could not understand

    There are certain things about him we do know that the Bible tells us, it definitely gives us a picture of the power and glory of God, and there are things he wants for us, the Bible provides these answers

    Well, wait a sec....why wouldn't he create a paradox? Paradoxes exist because of God...he created them correct?

    ...formerly the omnipotent UOD

  20. #20
    A+, Security+, Mobility+ Shinobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UOD View Post
    Can the almighty creator, create something more powerful then the creator itself?


    One of the greatest questions of all time...

    Can God create a stone so heavy that even he cannot lift it?


    I am curious as to how the religious followers explain how God can or cannot do certain things and how they relate to this paradox.


    So...is this true?

    God > Omnipotence

    No, because God is almighty, because of this , anything that God could create, God could move.
    God is the Almighty, no one is above God, so creating someone more "powerful" then himself, I do not see that.
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