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Thread: Big 3 Automotive Bail out..

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    Ohh Hell yeah.. Sava700's Avatar
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    Big 3 Automotive Bail out..

    Main reason why we should let them go bankrupt and fail:

    One of the best reasons why Detroit automakers should not receive a bailout can be found in a General Motors "Jobs Bank" program that, bizarrely, pays employees not to work.

    Who in the hell keeps paying people 40+$/hr to people that DO NOT work while losing money every day?!??!

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...es;secondStory

    I say let them fail..let them go Bankrupt... nobody is going to be buying vehicles as much as they used to no matter how much gas drops. Its time for the Big 3 to become the Big 1 and start making more fuel economy based vehicles now not 10years from now. Its time for the Unions to die off too.

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    Second Most EVIL YARDofSTUF's Avatar
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    Unions are fine, the UAW though needs a change.

    Letting GM fail means a massive amount of jobs are lost. A bailout and restructuring of GM would be very beneficial to all.

    GM and Ford have been bringing more feul efficent cars to the showrooms. Laws and safety/environmental regulations also help slow this proces down and should be reworked as well to be more efficient.

    All your monopoly ideas are foolish.

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    Moderator Roody's Avatar
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    Letting the big 3 fail is a terrible idea. Undoubtedly some harsh changes need to occur, but their failure would seriously disable an already weak economy.

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    Ohh Hell yeah.. Sava700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YARDofSTUF View Post
    Unions are fine, the UAW though needs a change.

    Letting GM fail means a massive amount of jobs are lost. A bailout and restructuring of GM would be very beneficial to all.

    GM and Ford have been bringing more feul efficent cars to the showrooms. Laws and safety/environmental regulations also help slow this proces down and should be reworked as well to be more efficient.

    All your monopoly ideas are foolish.
    Foolish? naw even this guy see's the light of letting them fail. A company should fail if you continue to pay Union's massive amounts of money while losing money every day. Its stupid to even continue with unions in todays business.

    A single company could sustain and weather the future cause like it will get worse before it gets better.

    Again, to pay someone for not working is crazy.

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    Moderator Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sava700 View Post

    Again, to pay someone for not working is crazy.
    No one disputes that idea. You fix the flaws and move forward. Letting them fail though is economic suicide.

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    Ohh Hell yeah.. Sava700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    No one disputes that idea. You fix the flaws and move forward. Letting them fail though is economic suicide.
    Well you wouldn't really let them fail... go bankrupt to restructure.. that would give a judge the permission to make contracts void with unions to get away from them and once again make money.

    I don't believe we need to bail them out..let them go bankrupt and then a judge can step in and get the ball rolling.

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    Second Most EVIL YARDofSTUF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sava700 View Post
    Foolish? naw even this guy see's the light of letting them fail. A company should fail if you continue to pay Union's massive amounts of money while losing money every day. Its stupid to even continue with unions in todays business.

    A single company could sustain and weather the future cause like it will get worse before it gets better.

    Again, to pay someone for not working is crazy.
    All 3 are facing troubles, it costs money to close plants, 1 single company would fail 3 times as fast.

    A bail out with set conditions and compromises on the UAW's part where they pay back the money used to bail them out plus interest would be best.

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    Moderator Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sava700 View Post
    Well you wouldn't really let them fail... go bankrupt to restructure.. that would give a judge the permission to make contracts void with unions to get away from them and once again make money.

    I don't believe we need to bail them out..let them go bankrupt and then a judge can step in and get the ball rolling.
    ..and in the meantime people get laid off and the economy suffers even more. Not a good idea IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YARDofSTUF View Post
    All 3 are facing troubles, it costs money to close plants,
    really?? Sure it costs money to close plants but the long term benefit out weights that and I can tell you for a FACT cause it happened to me in which that is the truth. Letting GM or the others go bankrupt is the better decision right now..this would again allow them to escape the over priced contracts the unions have in place over the automakers heads.

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    Ohh Hell yeah.. Sava700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    ..and in the meantime people get laid off and the economy suffers even more. Not a good idea IMO.
    People are getting laid off now... more may get laid off either way but I don't believe I should be spending tax payer money in this situation. Last thing I want to see is that money being paid out to those that get paid while not working. Or a company that kept on pumping out gas sucking vehicles for profits all these years when it was their own fault for doing so. They should have been focusing more than they did on better fuel economy vehicles..but instead greed kicked in and thats all you see here by this request for a Govt bailout.

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    SG Enthusiast Leatherneck's Avatar
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    Oh boy, talk about the snowball affect. Now Verizon and others say they need money and many others. I am all for keeping jobs in tact, but I am also for severe punishment for ANYONE making a profit from all this "bailing out" that is sure to keep coming. This money needs to be monitored with extreme prejudice! If I can choose the generic brand then these fat-a$$ execs can surely give up a summer home or 1 of their yachts.
    USMC RETIRED

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    Tacoma Guitar Forum

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    Second Most EVIL YARDofSTUF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sava700 View Post
    really?? Sure it costs money to close plants but the long term benefit out weights that and I can tell you for a FACT cause it happened to me in which that is the truth. Letting GM or the others go bankrupt is the better decision right now..this would again allow them to escape the over priced contracts the unions have in place over the automakers heads.
    The problem is that they would have to survive the short term. GM owes like 7 billion in retirement money, and burns something like 15 billion a year right now, Chrysler owes someone 9 billion or so, and even with gas prices down sales havent rebounded, though SUVs are doing better.


    Also don't forget the automakers agreed to those contracts.

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    Second Most EVIL YARDofSTUF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sava700 View Post
    People are getting laid off now... more may get laid off either way but I don't believe I should be spending tax payer money in this situation. Last thing I want to see is that money being paid out to those that get paid while not working. Or a company that kept on pumping out gas sucking vehicles for profits all these years when it was their own fault for doing so. They should have been focusing more than they did on better fuel economy vehicles..but instead greed kicked in and thats all you see here by this request for a Govt bailout.
    You are very closed minded.

    THe money spent could be made to turn a profit.

    Limitations could be made to alter teh UAW contract.

    Feul efficent vehicles have been being made, and years and years ago the auto industry tried to bring alternative choices to the market and no one wanted them, just as now lots are still buying gas guzzlers, and bigger cars, because thats what they want. If people don't buy it, what purpose is there to make it?

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    Ohh Hell yeah.. Sava700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YARDofSTUF View Post
    Also don't forget the automakers agreed to those contracts.
    you almost don't have a choice when you have threats of walkouts or strikes lol

    They owe all that retirement money cause it was contracted in to keep people working while the whole time most that could make it very well off 20$/hour doing what they do instead get greedy and press for 40$/hour. Who pushes all this greed the most? = Unions.

    But hey thats a whole different discussion and we both know we disagree on it so ohh well.

    Rather than a bailout with tax payer money..I say Bankrupt and let a judge tell them what to do to work things out. Have the Feds pressure them into leaving these gas sucking vehicles and SUV's and go for more fuel economy vehicles and those that run more MPG.

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    Ohh Hell yeah.. Sava700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YARDofSTUF View Post
    You are very closed minded.
    no not at all... I'm looking at the future. Bankrupt companies in the past have come out very profitable after restructure. Same can happen for the auto makers.

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    Second Most EVIL YARDofSTUF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sava700 View Post
    you almost don't have a choice when you have threats of walkouts or strikes lol
    Yes they do have choices, they've chosen not to use any of them.

    Bankruptcy Will hurt the brand names, send more buyers to toyota, honda, and huyundai/kia.

    And since you keep beating a dead horse I will too. They are making fuel efficient cars. Every car maker knows that they need to be able to advertise that.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sava700 View Post
    no not at all... I'm looking at the future. Bankrupt companies in the past have come out very profitable after restructure. Same can happen for the auto makers.
    Its also been the end for a great deal of companies.

  18. #18
    Ohh Hell yeah.. Sava700's Avatar
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    yep..bankrupt is the way to go..not a bailout by the Govt.

    Need to focus on more fuel economic vehicles than what we have been.. 30MPG average isn't acceptable when we can drive a car on water already.

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    Resident Rodent Randy's Avatar
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    I agree with sava no bailout. some other investors will pu the company cheap and hire the employees back at a more economical wage rate. let rich investors bail out @ 10 Cent on the dollar rather than the tax payers pay for a company thats been raping consumers for years


    AIG was in the news after receiving their bailout they spent 350,000 on a convention where most of the pigs were in the pool. spending money like fools

    the number one problem with the economy is americans in the general population dont want to get off their asses and be productive

    I was going to post a link to that thread, but the SG search results for "bullsh|t" were too numerous

    sometimes you have to think outside the box to get inside the box .

  20. #20
    Second Most EVIL YARDofSTUF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sava700 View Post
    yep..bankrupt is the way to go..not a bailout by the Govt.

    Need to focus on more fuel economic vehicles than what we have been.. 30MPG average isn't acceptable when we can drive a car on water already.
    Poor horse.

    So what MPG average is acceptable?

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