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Thread: New politics & religion sub-forum

  1. #41
    ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ downhill's Avatar
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    I'm on the fence with making a separate forum for politics and religion.

    As UOD stated, it works well on other sites. Those, however for the most part, are a lot bigger than SG.

    As to spilling over, with some of you, yes of course it probably will.

    I wonder if it might help draw more people to the forums though, if the general forum isn't so vicious some of the time?

    In that regard, you can't blame politics or religion but you can lay that squarely at the feet of those who refuse to discuss anything without innuendo, name calling, baiting and insults.

  2. #42
    Moderator David's Avatar
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    Assuredly, a "girl friend dumped me" would bring insults as quickly as any religious discussion

    Hell_Yes

    Luck is where preparation meets opportunity - Seneca

    "Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov

    It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book. - Friedrich Nietzsche

  3. #43
    Second Most EVIL YARDofSTUF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    Assuredly, a "girl friend dumped me" would bring insults as quickly as any religious discussion
    May bring in more new members, soap opera style.

  4. #44
    Maneater JawZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    Assuredly, a "girl friend dumped me" would bring insults as quickly as any religious discussion

    Yes it would but not because of the subject but rather the original posters lack of common net sense in doing so.

    Lack of common sense, lack of common courtesy, lack of O2 to the brain....the list can go on for miles.


    Here is a perfect example of lack of common courtesy.


    the other day, Joe came back and posted up 2 youtube videos about obama....and in his post he said this:

    Havent been on here in ages so who knows maybe a repost. Maybe not. I Dont care either way.

    I mean....c'mon, if you are going to telegraph your lack of respect for the membership, you should expect some heat for it. I of course replied my feelings back....even though he doesn't care.

    ...formerly the omnipotent UOD

  5. #45
    Moderator Roody's Avatar
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    I get your point Evan I just don't think a forum where a lack of civility would be a possible criteria is going to work.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Gixxer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    You are correct. Regardless of the level of education, subjectivity will always enter into the discussion and it is libel to become heated. Which is fair until ad hominem, swagger and threats are in play. Hard feelings will carry across fora, it is human nature to dislike someone who belittles irrespective of the milieu, promoting confusion and aggravation.

    I do recall days when religion would be discussed on this site, without the slightest insult. Many look back wistfully to those times.

    Adding more sub sections creates difficulty in monitoring.

    Members here, like at any other forum, have their needs concerns and desires. Sadly, not everyone will be happy with the environment offered. While some like to share jokes, others like racy pictures. Others have serious political interests, some like chat about college sports. In the general forum, there is no need to feel guilty. Think of it as a mall, with each thread as a store. Not interested in ladies shoes, avoid it. Just because Gixxer is in the store, there should be no reason to enter for the sake of harassment.

    that is all for now.

    pax vobisum,
    david

    BTW.... I am only funning you a bit, Gixxer.
    1.) thanks. i am not as think as you dumb i am. it is fun to let people make assumptions.

    2.) i am a target whether it be from my asking for it or other reasons. no sweat though.

    3.) i know you are joking around, but what you have said is true.
    a.k.a. GSXR 750

  7. #47
    Imperial Impotentate brembo's Avatar
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    Go with teh slingbacks girl, they are so you.
    Tao_Jones Cult Member since 2004
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  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    I get your point Evan I just don't think a forum where a lack of civility would be a possible criteria is going to work.


    It seems to be working for many, many others.

  9. #49
    Maneater JawZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    I get your point Evan I just don't think a forum where a lack of civility would be a possible criteria is going to work.

    Look at it this way, if it doesn't work....you'll have your problem children banned very quickly.


    But as Izzo said, and as I know because I'm a premium member for these other sites like Ars Technica, it works very very well. And they have many members which makes me wonder, why can't a small site like this make it work?

    Here is the first page from Ars Soapbox forum:


    ...formerly the omnipotent UOD

  10. #50
    Senior Member tao_jones's Avatar
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    In my time here it seems that the fighting and bickering comes and goes...that being said i dont see how it could possible hurt things to have a sub-forum. People are gonna argue about one thing or the other so at least give them a place to do so...

    Stupidity is also a gift of God, but one mustn't misuse it. - JP II

  11. #51
    Moderator Roody's Avatar
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    If a clear majority wants it and the staff approves it I am game to try it. That said I think the rules will be alot tighter then being suggested right now.

  12. #52
    Senior Member Gixxer's Avatar
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    i think it will be all out war.
    a.k.a. GSXR 750

  13. #53
    Assistant Admin Ken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UOD View Post
    Yes it would but not because of the subject but rather the original posters lack of common net sense in doing so.

    Lack of common sense, lack of common courtesy, lack of O2 to the brain....the list can go on for miles.


    Here is a perfect example of lack of common courtesy.


    the other day, Joe came back and posted up 2 youtube videos about obama....and in his post he said this:




    I mean....c'mon, if you are going to telegraph your lack of respect for the membership, you should expect some heat for it. I of course replied my feelings back....even though he doesn't care.
    Uoddy,
    That is the whole point, EVERYTHING is subjective and opinionated, basically except mathematics, which is an exact science, as far as we know... What one person may believe is a fact, another sees it differently... With politics and religion, there are not as many facts as one would like to or choose to believe... To believe that this media outlet has the "facts", and another has lies, again is subjective or opinionated, at best...

    If someone wants to post something about their ex-girlfriend or whatever, that is their RIGHT... Who are you to condemn them for it? Who are you to judge what they can post?... How can that be judged as a lack of common sense? In YOUR OPINION it is a lack of common sense, however that doesn't mean it is the same for others...

    If you don't want to read about it, no one is forcing you. However, when people try to slam someone for posting something, they are just as bad as the original poster, in the eyes of many...

    To me, that is the bigger problem, everyone is too busy trying to JUDGE someone and trying to FORCE what THEY BELIEVE or CHOOSE to believe as being facts... Again, there was a time when EVERYONE THOUGHT the world to be flat. It was taught in the universities... Did that make the world flat?...

    You speak of common sense. There are many that are so obsessed with what they believe, that they are non-receptive to anything else. Is that common sense?...

    The bottom line is that people need to be able to control themselves... It is amazing how many adults do not have control over themselves and their emotions. To add another forum to give certain people an opportunity to flex their e-ego upon someone else will add nothing positive to the site. And as mentioned, their are plenty of other sites where one can do that...

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    If a clear majority wants it and the staff approves it I am game to try it. That said I think the rules will be alot tighter then being suggested right now.


    If the rules are tighter there is no point. The whole point of even bringing this up to let those with thin skin stay in GF where they can avoid the discussion entirely and continue to forward icanhascheeseburger pics or they enter at their own risk.......so if that's the only option forget it.

  15. #55
    Imperial Impotentate brembo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken View Post
    Uoddy,
    That is the whole point, EVERYTHING is subjective and opinionated, basically except mathematics, which is an exact science, as far as we know... What one person may believe is a fact, another sees it differently... With politics and religion, there are not as many facts as one would like to or choose to believe... To believe that this media outlet has the "facts", and another has lies, again is subjective or opinionated, at best...

    If someone wants to post something about their ex-girlfriend or whatever, that is their RIGHT... Who are you to condemn them for it? Who are you to judge what they can post?... How can that be judged as a lack of common sense? In YOUR OPINION it is a lack of common sense, however that doesn't mean it is the same for others...

    If you don't want to read about it, no one is forcing you. However, when people try to slam someone for posting something, they are just as bad as the original poster, in the eyes of many...

    To me, that is the bigger problem, everyone is too busy trying to JUDGE someone and trying to FORCE what THEY BELIEVE or CHOOSE to believe as being facts... Again, there was a time when EVERYONE THOUGHT the world to be flat. It was taught in the universities... Did that make the world flat?...

    You speak of common sense. There are many that are so obsessed with what they believe, that they are non-receptive to anything else. Is that common sense?...

    The bottom line is that people need to be able to control themselves... It is amazing how many adults do not have control over themselves and their emotions. To add another forum to give certain people an opportunity to flex their e-ego upon someone else will add nothing positive to the site. And as mentioned, their are plenty of other sites where one can do that...

    Is not.
    Tao_Jones Cult Member since 2004
    I gave Miss Manners a Dirty Sanchez, and she LIKED it.

  16. #56
    R.I.P. 2017-10-02 Joint Chiefs of Staff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    Assuredly, a "girl friend dumped me" would bring insults as quickly as any religious discussion
    This is because the mods allow it to happen. Warnings do absolutely nothing to some members. It's like a slap on the wrist to a child.
    >>Cult Master of International Affairs<<

  17. #57
    Second Most EVIL YARDofSTUF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    I get your point Evan I just don't think a forum where a lack of civility would be a possible criteria is going to work.
    It doesnt have to lack civilty, just make a political sub forum and enforce the same rules as now.

  18. #58
    Moderator Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Izzo View Post
    If the rules are tighter there is no point. The whole point of even bringing this up to let those with thin skin stay in GF where they can avoid the discussion entirely and continue to forward icanhascheeseburger pics or they enter at their own risk.......so if that's the only option forget it.
    Might as well forget it then.

  19. #59
    Ohh Hell yeah.. Sava700's Avatar
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    It wouldn't hurt to give it a try... it takes less than 10mins to create a sub-forum for it and even less time to remove it.

  20. #60
    Maneater JawZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken View Post
    Uoddy,
    That is the whole point, EVERYTHING is subjective and opinionated, basically except mathematics, which is an exact science, as far as we know... What one person may believe is a fact, another sees it differently... With politics and religion, there are not as many facts as one would like to or choose to believe... To believe that this media outlet has the "facts", and another has lies, again is subjective or opinionated, at best...

    If someone wants to post something about their ex-girlfriend or whatever, that is their RIGHT... Who are you to condemn them for it? Who are you to judge what they can post?... How can that be judged as a lack of common sense? In YOUR OPINION it is a lack of common sense, however that doesn't mean it is the same for others...

    If you don't want to read about it, no one is forcing you. However, when people try to slam someone for posting something, they are just as bad as the original poster, in the eyes of many...

    To me, that is the bigger problem, everyone is too busy trying to JUDGE someone and trying to FORCE what THEY BELIEVE or CHOOSE to believe as being facts... Again, there was a time when EVERYONE THOUGHT the world to be flat. It was taught in the universities... Did that make the world flat?...

    You speak of common sense. There are many that are so obsessed with what they believe, that they are non-receptive to anything else. Is that common sense?...

    The bottom line is that people need to be able to control themselves... It is amazing how many adults do not have control over themselves and their emotions. To add another forum to give certain people an opportunity to flex their e-ego upon someone else will add nothing positive to the site. And as mentioned, their are plenty of other sites where one can do that...

    I don't agree with many things that you have just said.

    First of which, there are facts in politics. What happens here on SG is that people post opinions as facts, and we, knowing better, check those facts.

    For example, your mod, YoSC, posted the other day that Sarah Palin had a jacuzzi installed in her government owned mansion at her own expense. Well, that was false. She had a tanning bed installed. I did the research and it was false. So I posted to correct this falsehood. Now if YoSC continued to deny that....then his statement would become a lie.

    What happens here on SG is exactly what I just posted. You think that this is related to the posters media choice....no. This is not what I'm arguing about.

    Sure, people will use media bits to support their own argument but when those media bits can be CLEARLY refuted....it's not an opinion...it's a fact.

    I have never EVER had a problem with someone stating an opinion when they say it's THEIR OPINION. But when they post their opinion as a fact....I call em on it. Do I not have that right? And when I point it out to them that their beloved and cherished fact is just an opinion that is more than likely flawed....they cry and then flames start.

    this brings me to my next point Ken....when people post opinions, discussion ensues. If I feel that their opinion is flawed....I begin the challenge process. I ask, how did you come to this conclusion that the world is flat? And this is where it normally escalates because people can't handle being challenged in their beliefs.


    I came here to be enlightened....and boy, has it been an education.

    I can say that what I've learned and the transformation in my value system is due to the following people....

    Downhill
    Bouncer
    David
    Brembo

    I will say that when I was gaming with YoSC on a daily basis and eventually we partnered up to provide the SG game server....that was a huge education in itself and am super thankful of that. YoSC is a class act.


    My first couple of years here, I used to post and respond in a very emotionally rooted way...mainly from a die-hard conservative viewpoint. I remember going head to head with DH about Clinton's affair. And I remember the constant barrages of questions from DH, Bouncer, and Brembo. David, with his very educated prose would show me the light to help wrap things up in my mind.

    I then learned that I was wrong about many things. I learned that I need to research my responses or my own topics for discussion before I just blurt out an idiotic essay.


    Bouncer was not ever very nice but his questions made me think. Now I chat with Tom every now and then and he was a huge help to me in my career a few years ago. I didn't deserve nice and if it wasn't for his wickedness....I would not be able to say today, that he was really mentoring me.

    I am not here for my ego at all. I remain here for the same reasons that someone like Burke stays....because we believe that sometimes, we need to beat the citizenship back into our fellow Americans.

    ...formerly the omnipotent UOD

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