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Thread: Video: Obama argues his tax plan with a small plumbing business owner in Ohio

  1. #1

    Video: Obama argues his tax plan with a small plumbing business owner in Ohio

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    I don't know if he got the guy's vote, and its pretty typical democrat stuff that he's saying, but he does a pretty good job arguing his position.

    This is why I like this guy and think he could be president. In his speeches he seems to be using a teleprompter and its staged, but here he sounds like a normal person, and talks to the guy and not at him. He says what he believes and sticks it even if others don't agree, but at the same time seems to get that some other people see it a different way, and stays respectful to them.

  2. #2
    Ohh Hell yeah.. Sava700's Avatar
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    Looked like he enjoyed interrupting that guy to me...but that plumber has a point..the more he makes the more he's taxed under his plan and even Obama said it several times thats how it works to his face. So your punished for doing better?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Sava700 View Post
    the more he makes the more he's taxed under his plan and even Obama said it several times thats how it works to his face.
    That's what I like about him, he didn't just tell him what he wanted to hear or dodge it like most politicians do. At least he's honest about it and you know what you're getting. He's a democrat, and he doesn't try to weasel out of it. I respect republicans that can be straight too.

    Tax is tax...But 3% more for any extra income over 250k (same as it was in the 90's), and NO capital gains taxes for small businesses, and a 50% tax cut for health care costs...could be worse.

  4. #4
    Advanced Member tarpoon75's Avatar
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    Taxes are going up, period.

    That's the only way to get us out of the mess we are in.
    Now, Hank, touch your throat. That tube you feel is your trachea. Think of it as your handle. That thing your thumb is on is your carotid artery. Think of it as your button. I want you to grab the handle, push the button.
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    Second Most EVIL YARDofSTUF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarpoon75 View Post
    Taxes are going up, period.

    That's the only way to get us out of the mess we are in.
    McCain still thinks hes gonna cut them.

  6. #6
    Ohh Hell yeah.. Sava700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjrs View Post
    That's what I like about him, he didn't just tell him what he wanted to hear or dodge it like most politicians do. At least he's honest about it and you know what you're getting. He's a democrat, and he doesn't try to weasel out of it. I respect republicans that can be straight too.

    Tax is tax...But 3% more for any extra income over 250k (same as it was in the 90's), and NO capital gains taxes for small businesses, and a 50% tax cut for health care costs...could be worse.
    How about being honest and not screwing the small business owner like this guy by telling him that no matter what he does he's going to get nailed for working harder. Or how about not interrupt the guy when he's talking since he's the one who will put you into the position.

  7. #7
    Second Most EVIL YARDofSTUF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sava700 View Post
    How about being honest and not screwing the small business owner like this guy by telling him that no matter what he does he's going to get nailed for working harder. Or how about not interrupt the guy when he's talking since he's the one who will put you into the position.
    If he works harder and is taxed more he still makes more than if he didn't work that hard.

  8. #8
    ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ downhill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sava700 View Post
    How about being honest and not screwing the small business owner like this guy by telling him that no matter what he does he's going to get nailed for working harder. Or how about not interrupt the guy when he's talking since he's the one who will put you into the position.

    *sigh*.... Perspective I guess.

    Most politicians who are good at debate, learn early to try and get a answer in before they get bombard with three more questions.


    Have you watched the O'Lielly interviews with Obama?

  9. #9
    Ohh Hell yeah.. Sava700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YARDofSTUF View Post
    If he works harder and is taxed more he still makes more than if he didn't work that hard.
    I don't disagree with that.. the issue is with paying more taxes of a higher percentage when he's working hard vs just a normal increase per the amount made that everyone has... same goes with overtime when a employee works harder and longer for overtime they get taxed more cause it throws them into a higher tax bracket..I've never agreed with that.

  10. #10
    Moderator YeOldeStonecat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YARDofSTUF View Post
    If he works harder and is taxed more he still makes more than if he didn't work that hard.
    But ones gets tired of "the law of diminishing returns".

    When I was in my 20's....I used to crave working overtime. Doing 60, 70, 80, heck I even logged in over 100 hours on storm hurricane watch one winter...but eventually, because your pay gets kicked a few notches up the tax braket...you realize that the hours logged past certain points get you squat for pay. You end up working for like...3 dollars an hour after a certain point.

    Eventually I learned the happy medium, back then, at my pay scale, and the tax braket, I learned to stop doing overtime at 67 hours...any past that was for pocket change.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by YeOldeStonecat View Post
    But ones gets tired of "the law of diminishing returns".

    When I was in my 20's....I used to crave working overtime. Doing 60, 70, 80, heck I even logged in over 100 hours on storm hurricane watch one winter...but eventually, because your pay gets kicked a few notches up the tax bracket...you realize that the hours logged past certain points get you squat for pay. You end up working for like...3 dollars an hour after a certain point.

    Eventually I learned the happy medium, back then, at my pay scale, and the tax braket, I learned to stop doing overtime at 67 hours...any past that was for pocket change.
    Exactly

    Back in '93 when I got out of the Navy and worked at an international Pharmaceutical company back in Baltimore. My cut off (tax bracket) for OT was 14/wk. Then the company introduced mandatory OT for weekends to meet med manufacturing deadlines. Working for OT used to be kick ass, now not so much.
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  12. #12
    Second Most EVIL YARDofSTUF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sava700 View Post
    I don't disagree with that.. the issue is with paying more taxes of a higher percentage when he's working hard vs just a normal increase per the amount made that everyone has... same goes with overtime when a employee works harder and longer for overtime they get taxed more cause it throws them into a higher tax bracket..I've never agreed with that.
    I've never liked it, but its not like we can do one flat rate that leaves the lower earning people with 8-10k a year after taxes.

  13. #13
    Moderator YeOldeStonecat's Avatar
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    I disagree with his statement that "95% of small businesses are under $250k/year" though.

    For people playing income tax....having a ceiling of 250k per household...I'm OK with that.

    But for small businesses..his claim that 95% of them out there don't pull in 250k...I call phooey!
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  14. #14
    SG Enthusiast koldchillah's Avatar
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    If my business brings in $275K/yr, thats approximately an $8000/yr tax increase under Obama's plan. Sure, that sucks, but it's not going to discourage me from working any harder. At some point along the way I'm going to realize that I am still better off than I was when I made $150K, or even $230K. If my hard work pushes my company into a higher bracket and I see a little more of my money going back into the system, I will feel good knowing that my success has afforded me the honor of helping those that are working just as hard to follow the same dream that I had.

    I have a great distaste for the attitude that if someone makes less money than someone else, then they must not be working hard enough, or that they must not be doing something right. That mindset is disturbing to me.

    If my business ever brings in over $250K/yr I don't think I have too much of a problem settling for the Lexus SUV versus the Porsche Cayenne.

    What I do like, however, is that as Obama explained, under his plan I have a better chance of making it to that $250K mark even quicker than I do right now and thats encouraging IMO to a vast majority of business owners, regardless of whether it's 95% of them or 89% of them, or hell, even 60% of them. Anything done to benefit the population should be considered if it can help even 51% of Americans.

    When I hear of people making over $250K a year and bitching about having to pay a higher tax rate, they really don't get any sympathy from me. Maybe someday I will reach that same status and surround myself with that similar mindset, but I hope to God, if he's up there, that I don't buy into that philosophy that IMHO wreaks of sub-conscious greed no matter how much dignity and honor I still feel that I've retained.
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  15. #15
    Moderator YeOldeStonecat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldchillah View Post
    When I hear of people making over $250K a year and bitching about having to pay a higher tax rate, they really don't get any sympathy from me.
    The 250k/year for individuals, or even households, I don't have a problem with.

    Even for a small business, the 250k/year....well, I don't have a BIG problem with it, as something has to be done to level things out a bit. I think it should be set a little higher..but it's no show stopper for me.

    What I disagree with, was his statement that 95% of small businesses are under that 250k/year mark. I think he said that with typical slant of trying to win the people over. When he says 95% of the average Americans are under that 250k/year mark..that's probably not too too far from the truth, and the higher percentage of average americans will interpret that as them getting a tax cut...and be all "Yay" about it.

    But for a small business...a business hitting 250k/year doesn't mean the owner is taking home a fat paycheck.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by koldchillah View Post
    If my business brings in $275K/yr, thats approximately an $8000/yr tax increase under Obama's plan. Sure, that sucks, but it's not going to discourage me from working any harder. At some point along the way I'm going to realize that I am still better off than I was when I made $150K, or even $230K. If my hard work pushes my company into a higher bracket and I see a little more of my money going back into the system, I will feel good knowing that my success has afforded me the honor of helping those that are working just as hard to follow the same dream that I had.

    I have a great distaste for the attitude that if someone makes less money than someone else, then they must not be working hard enough, or that they must not be doing something right. That mindset is disturbing to me.

    If my business ever brings in over $250K/yr I don't think I have too much of a problem settling for the Lexus SUV versus the Porsche Cayenne.

    What I do like, however, is that as Obama explained, under his plan I have a better chance of making it to that $250K mark even quicker than I do right now and thats encouraging IMO to a vast majority of business owners, regardless of whether it's 95% of them or 89% of them, or hell, even 60% of them. Anything done to benefit the population should be considered if it can help even 51% of Americans.

    When I hear of people making over $250K a year and bitching about having to pay a higher tax rate, they really don't get any sympathy from me. Maybe someday I will reach that same status and surround myself with that similar mindset, but I hope to God, if he's up there, that I don't buy into that philosophy that IMHO wreaks of sub-conscious greed no matter how much dignity and honor I still feel that I've retained.
    Well said.....and bravo to you, sir.

  17. #17
    SG Enthusiast koldchillah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YeOldeStonecat View Post
    But for a small business...a business hitting 250k/year doesn't mean the owner is taking home a fat paycheck.
    Why not? Isn't that $250K referring to profits AFTER a businesses expenses are tallied? If you are a company owner and you are collecting a salary from the business, then you are falling under payroll which is an expense that sits on the expense side of your companies profit/loss statement and plays against your gross profits at the end of the year. So if you make $70K in salary and your company STILL grosses over $250K/yr after all employees are paid, guess who gets that extra money? The owners/shareholders, which in a lot of cases for small businesses will also be the same employees that take in income as part of the businesses expenses.

    So really, it depends on whether that $250K is referring to gross profits or just plain revenue. If we're talking about simple revenues, than I'm more inclined to agree with you wholeheartedly.

    C-corps versus S-corps also makes a big difference since S-corps don't pay corporate income taxes, but rather the shareholders (typically fewer in an S-corp) pay their share of the companies profits on their personal income taxes based on the profit & loss statements at years end.

    My company is an S-corp. We don't pay corporate income taxes so I'm not 100% sure on how the tax scenarios will play out, but I think it's pretty straight forward for the C-corps out there.

    As for the 95% thing. meh.. It's an election and they all love to throw those figures around and in one context or another he might be dead on. Like I said, I'd still favor it, even if only 51% of small businesses make less than $250K/yr. A majority is a majority IMO, and thats what democracy is all about.

    At the end of the day, unlike a lot of people out there, I'm actually excited about this election. I happen to like both candidates in terms of character. I think both candidates are the most honorable and trustworthy candidates I've seen in my lifetime. I just happen to disagree with a lot of McCain's policies and only a few of Obama's, therefore I'm more inclined to choose the candidate that is saying more of the right things, rather than choosing the candidate who barely says any of the right things. Regardless though, I strongly beleive that our country would be better off with a chimpanzee sittin' in the Oval office than what we've had for the past 8 years.
    Last edited by koldchillah; 10-15-08 at 01:32 PM.
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  18. #18
    It seems like an awfully big stink to raise over a measly 3% tax increase...after you just cleared a quarter mil at a lower rate than McCain would give you.

    So basically, after 250, you pay an extra 30 bucks for every extra 1000 you make. Big frickin' deal. Realistically how is that worth getting upset over?

    That is not going to hurt anybody at all. Its like people just want to argue it out of principal. If its a little more, even a teeny weeny little bit more, then its totally out of the question. Forget that you just made a quarter million dollars, even a measly 30 bucks extra from then on is out of the question. People paid that rate in the 90's and the economy did just fine.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by jjrs View Post
    It seems like an awfully big stink to raise over a measly 3% tax increase...after you just cleared a quarter mil at a lower rate than McCain would give you.

    So basically, after 250, you pay an extra 30 bucks for every extra 1000 you make. Big frickin' deal. Realistically how is that worth getting upset over?

    That is not going to hurt anybody at all. Its like people just want to argue it out of principal. If its a little more, even a teeny weeny little bit more, then its totally out of the question. Forget that you just made a quarter million dollars, even a measly 30 bucks extra from then on is out of the question. People paid that rate in the 90's and the economy did just fine.
    You underestimate the power of greed.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Izzo View Post
    You underestimate the power of greed.
    I guess so. 10% I'd understand and 20 hell yeah, but this is ridiculous. I'm happy with what I earn, but I'd like to think if I had just cleared a quarter million dollars, I'd have more important things to worry about than a 3% tax increase.

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