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Thread: Trying to split a cable signal ...

  1. #1
    NoelSemple1@gmail.com
    Guest

    Trying to split a cable signal ...

    I would be eternally grateful if one of the experts here could give me
    some advice.

    We live in Toronto and have Roger's cable internet and tv. Both the
    cable modem and the tv work perfectly when connected directly to the
    wall. However, when I introduce a splitter and attempt to use them
    simultaneously, the tv continues to work but the modem doesn't.

    I've tried at least 5 different splitters, including a $50 monster
    cable model, none works.

    I know the best solution would be to call the provider. The problem
    is that we have what I think of as "guilt-free free cable tv." We
    phoned the provider and told them to cancel the cable tv while
    continuing the internet service. They stopped charging us but never
    cut off the tv, so we continue to use it. If I call them about the
    problem above I think they'll notice that we're not paying for the tv
    and cut it off.

    Is there any type of splitter or amplifier which would let us use the
    net and the tv simultaneously without calling the provider and going
    back to paying for both?

    Many thanks for your help!
    -Noel

  2. #2
    Agent_C
    Guest

    Re: Trying to split a cable signal ...

    On Mon, 19 May 2008 11:40:14 -0700 (PDT), NoelSemple1@gmail.com wrote:

    >Is there any type of splitter or amplifier which would let us use the
    >net and the tv simultaneously without calling the provider and going
    >back to paying for both?


    Yes, a Monster Cable TGHZ-2RF. Connect the cable modem to the "Power
    Pass" lead.

    A_C

  3. #3
    Elmo P. Shagnasty
    Guest

    Re: Trying to split a cable signal ...

    In article
    <d54d799a-bcf8-455f-b1e8-9bf416d0cc94@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
    NoelSemple1@gmail.com wrote:

    > We live in Toronto and have Roger's cable internet and tv.


    Who's Roger? Your next door neighbor? Are you stealing Roger's cable?
    Or is he letting you share his cable?


  4. #4
    Bill M.
    Guest

    Re: Trying to split a cable signal ...

    On Mon, 19 May 2008 16:52:31 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
    <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

    >In article
    ><d54d799a-bcf8-455f-b1e8-9bf416d0cc94@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
    > NoelSemple1@gmail.com wrote:
    >
    >> We live in Toronto and have Roger's cable internet and tv.

    >
    >Who's Roger? Your next door neighbor? Are you stealing Roger's cable?
    >Or is he letting you share his cable?


    LOL Funny :)

    --
    Bill

  5. #5
    Timothy Daniels
    Guest

    Re: Trying to split a cable signal ...

    <NoelSemple1@gmail.com> wrote:
    > We live in Toronto and have Roger's cable internet and tv. Both the
    > cable modem and the tv work perfectly when connected directly to the
    > wall. However, when I introduce a splitter and attempt to use them
    > simultaneously, the tv continues to work but the modem doesn't.
    >
    > I've tried at least 5 different splitters, including a $50 monster
    > cable model, none works.
    >
    > [......]
    >
    > Is there any type of splitter or amplifier which would let us use the
    > net and the tv simultaneously without calling the provider and going
    > back to paying for both?



    A normal splitter should work. Is it possible that you used splitters
    made for satellite use? What is the passband for the splitters that you
    used? A normal splitter made for CATV and cable/internet would have
    a passband of 5MHz to 900MHz or 1,000MHz. BTW, anything made
    by Monster Cable is grossly overpriced and intended to suck money
    out of gullible people. A good splitter is cheap enough to be given away
    by the cable company. I once walked into the supply yard of the local
    cable company (now Time Warner) and asked for a splitter and offered
    to pay for it. A technician went to his truck and just gave me one and
    said to forget it.

    There is also the possibility that you need a filter for the TV. It keeps
    the electrical noise from the TV from getting into the cable infrastructure
    of the cable company. Some older TVs can also make enough noise to
    interfere with the upstream internet signals. These you *might* be able
    to buy at Radio Shack, but more likely you'd have to get one from your
    cable company.

    *TimDaniels*



  6. #6
    Ed Nielsen
    Guest

    Re: Trying to split a cable signal ...

    Tim brings up a very good point about a diplexer. Make sure that the
    splitter used reads 5-1000MHz and not 5-860 on one leg and 950-2000+ on
    the other leg.

    With just your cable modem connected, what are the signal levels
    (downstream and upstream, as well as S/N) as found at
    <http://192.168.100.1>?

    Monster is getting to be sadly hilarious. Now, they are suing a
    miniature golf course in Rancho Cordova along with the Rhode Island
    woman who sells Monster Mini Golf franchises for trademark infringement.


    CIAO!

    Ed N.


    Timothy Daniels wrote:
    > <NoelSemple1@gmail.com> wrote:
    >> We live in Toronto and have Roger's cable internet and tv. Both the
    >> cable modem and the tv work perfectly when connected directly to the
    >> wall. However, when I introduce a splitter and attempt to use them
    >> simultaneously, the tv continues to work but the modem doesn't.
    >>
    >> I've tried at least 5 different splitters, including a $50 monster
    >> cable model, none works.
    >>
    >> [......]
    >>
    >> Is there any type of splitter or amplifier which would let us use the
    >> net and the tv simultaneously without calling the provider and going
    >> back to paying for both?

    >
    >
    > A normal splitter should work. Is it possible that you used splitters
    > made for satellite use? What is the passband for the splitters that you
    > used? A normal splitter made for CATV and cable/internet would have
    > a passband of 5MHz to 900MHz or 1,000MHz. BTW, anything made
    > by Monster Cable is grossly overpriced and intended to suck money
    > out of gullible people. A good splitter is cheap enough to be given away
    > by the cable company. I once walked into the supply yard of the local
    > cable company (now Time Warner) and asked for a splitter and offered
    > to pay for it. A technician went to his truck and just gave me one and
    > said to forget it.
    >
    > There is also the possibility that you need a filter for the TV. It keeps
    > the electrical noise from the TV from getting into the cable infrastructure
    > of the cable company. Some older TVs can also make enough noise to
    > interfere with the upstream internet signals. These you *might* be able
    > to buy at Radio Shack, but more likely you'd have to get one from your
    > cable company.
    >
    > *TimDaniels*
    >
    >


  7. #7
    Agent_C
    Guest

    Re: Trying to split a cable signal ...

    On Mon, 19 May 2008 11:40:14 -0700 (PDT), NoelSemple1@gmail.com wrote:

    >Is there any type of splitter or amplifier which would let us use the
    >net and the tv simultaneously without calling the provider and going
    >back to paying for both?


    Yes, a Monster Cable TGHZ-2RF. Connect the cable modem to the "Power
    Pass" lead.

    A_C

  8. #8
    NoelSemple1@gmail.com
    Guest

    Re: Trying to split a cable signal ...

    On May 20, 12:18 am, "Timothy Daniels" <SpamBuc...@NoSpamPlease.biz>
    wrote:
    > <NoelSemp...@gmail.com> wrote:
    > > We live in Toronto and have Roger's cable internet and tv. Both the
    > > cable modem and the tv work perfectly when connected directly to the
    > > wall. However, when I introduce a splitter and attempt to use them
    > > simultaneously, the tv continues to work but the modem doesn't.

    >
    > > I've tried at least 5 different splitters, including a $50 monster
    > > cable model, none works.

    >
    > > [......]

    >
    > > Is there any type of splitter or amplifier which would let us use the
    > > net and the tv simultaneously without calling the provider and going
    > > back to paying for both?

    >
    > A normal splitter should work. Is it possible that you used splitters
    > made for satellite use? What is the passband for the splitters that you
    > used? A normal splitter made for CATV and cable/internet would have
    > a passband of 5MHz to 900MHz or 1,000MHz. BTW, anything made
    > by Monster Cable is grossly overpriced and intended to suck money
    > out of gullible people. A good splitter is cheap enough to be given away
    > by the cable company. I once walked into the supply yard of the local
    > cable company (now Time Warner) and asked for a splitter and offered
    > to pay for it. A technician went to his truck and just gave me one and
    > said to forget it.
    >
    > There is also the possibility that you need a filter for the TV. It keeps
    > the electrical noise from the TV from getting into the cable infrastructure
    > of the cable company. Some older TVs can also make enough noise to
    > interfere with the upstream internet signals. These you *might* be able
    > to buy at Radio Shack, but more likely you'd have to get one from your
    > cable company.
    >
    > *TimDaniels*


    Many thanks Tim for your help. I have tried 2 splitters rated
    5-1000 MhZ, plus the Monster which I agree was ludicrously overpriced
    even it had worked.

    The problem occurs when I use the splitter with or without the tv
    connected, so I think I can rule out the interference hypothesis.

  9. #9
    NoelSemple1@gmail.com
    Guest

    Re: Trying to split a cable signal ...

    On May 20, 12:02 pm, Ed Nielsen <egn...@netscape.net> wrote:
    > Tim brings up a very good point about a diplexer. Make sure that the
    > splitter used reads 5-1000MHz and not 5-860 on one leg and 950-2000+ on
    > the other leg.
    >
    > With just your cable modem connected, what are the signal levels
    > (downstream and upstream, as well as S/N) as found at
    > <http://192.168.100.1>?



    Thanks Ed! Here are my signals:

    Downstream Value
    Frequency 615000000 Hz
    Signal To Noise Ratio 38.6 dB
    Power Level -1.0 dBmV
    The Downstream Power Level reading is a snapshot taken at the time
    this page was requested. Please Reload/Refresh this Page for a new
    reading

    Upstream Value
    Channel ID 4
    Frequency 25296000 Hz
    Power 55.2 dBmV

    how does this look to you?

    thanks again,
    -Noel

  10. #10
    Timothy Daniels
    Guest

    Re: Trying to split a cable signal ...

    <NoelSemple1@gmail.com> wrote
    > The problem occurs when I use the splitter with or without the tv
    > connected, so I think I can rule out the interference hypothesis.


    Hmmm... suspicion turns to the cable between the wall and
    the splitter. Who attached the connectors for that cable and what
    kind of connectors are they (e.g. hex crimp [boo], compression fit
    such as SnapNSeal, Digicon, SuperLok [yayy], push-on [superBoo])?
    Are the connectors sized to match the cable size? Is the cable
    shielded under the outer sheath with what looks like aluminum foil
    in addition to the metal braid?

    *TimDaniels*



  11. #11
    $Bill
    Guest

    Re: Trying to split a cable signal ...

    NoelSemple1@gmail.com wrote:
    >
    > Thanks Ed! Here are my signals:
    >
    > Downstream Value
    > Frequency 615000000 Hz
    > Signal To Noise Ratio 38.6 dB
    > Power Level -1.0 dBmV
    > The Downstream Power Level reading is a snapshot taken at the time
    > this page was requested. Please Reload/Refresh this Page for a new
    > reading
    >
    > Upstream Value
    > Channel ID 4
    > Frequency 25296000 Hz
    > Power 55.2 dBmV
    >
    > how does this look to you?


    Your Tx power is on the top edge of acceptable at 55.2, Rx is a bit
    high, but well within bounds and your SNR is very high (which is good).

    Is this with or without the splitter ? If it's without, you're gonna
    have problems when you put it back in. Put it back in and post the new
    numbers if so.

  12. #12
    Todd H.
    Guest

    Re: Trying to split a cable signal ...

    NoelSemple1@gmail.com writes:

    > On May 20, 12:02 pm, Ed Nielsen <egn...@netscape.net> wrote:
    >> Tim brings up a very good point about a diplexer. Make sure that the
    >> splitter used reads 5-1000MHz and not 5-860 on one leg and 950-2000+ on
    >> the other leg.
    >>
    >> With just your cable modem connected, what are the signal levels
    >> (downstream and upstream, as well as S/N) as found at
    >> <http://192.168.100.1>?

    >
    >
    > Thanks Ed! Here are my signals:
    >
    > Downstream Value
    > Frequency 615000000 Hz
    > Signal To Noise Ratio 38.6 dB
    > Power Level -1.0 dBmV
    > The Downstream Power Level reading is a snapshot taken at the time
    > this page was requested. Please Reload/Refresh this Page for a new
    > reading
    >
    > Upstream Value
    > Channel ID 4
    > Frequency 25296000 Hz
    > Power 55.2 dBmV
    >
    > how does this look to you?


    That upstream power looks to be at the very edge of usability in my
    experience.

    If you ping -t google.com for about 30 seconds and hit ctrl-t what
    sort of packetloss are you seeing?


    --
    Todd H.
    http://www.toddh.net/

  13. #13
    NoelSemple1@gmail.com
    Guest

    Re: Trying to split a cable signal ...

    On May 21, 9:28 pm, comph...@toddh.net (Todd H.) wrote:
    > NoelSemp...@gmail.com writes:
    > > On May 20, 12:02 pm, Ed Nielsen <egn...@netscape.net> wrote:
    > >> Tim brings up a very good point about a diplexer. Make sure that the
    > >> splitter used reads 5-1000MHz and not 5-860 on one leg and 950-2000+ on
    > >> the other leg.

    >
    > >> With just your cable modem connected, what are the signal levels
    > >> (downstream and upstream, as well as S/N) as found at
    > >> <http://192.168.100.1>?

    >
    > > Thanks Ed! Here are my signals:

    >
    > > Downstream Value
    > > Frequency 615000000 Hz
    > > Signal To Noise Ratio 38.6 dB
    > > Power Level -1.0 dBmV
    > > The Downstream Power Level reading is a snapshot taken at the time
    > > this page was requested. Please Reload/Refresh this Page for a new
    > > reading

    >
    > > Upstream Value
    > > Channel ID 4
    > > Frequency 25296000 Hz
    > > Power 55.2 dBmV

    >
    > > how does this look to you?

    >
    > That upstream power looks to be at the very edge of usability in my
    > experience.
    >
    > If you ping -t google.com for about 30 seconds and hit ctrl-t what
    > sort of packetloss are you seeing?
    >
    > --
    > Todd H.http://www.toddh.net/


    Thanks again everyone for all of your helpful advice!

    The numbers posted above are without the splitter. Also without the
    splitter, 500 pings to google.com produced 0% packet loss. With any
    of the three splitters Iíve tried, I get no connection at all and
    therefore cannot run tests.

    If Timís analysis is correct, I guess I need a technician? (Iím
    certainly not knowledgeable enough to answer Timís questions myself.)
    Iíd love to call the provider and have them rewire it for free, but as
    noted above I donít want my ďguilt-free free cable tvĒ axed.

    Maybe I should hide the tv and just say that the signal is problematic
    in that the upstream power is too high? Then, hopefully, the Rogers
    tech will rewire and I will bring the tv back out from hiding and the
    modem and tv will live happily ever after together?

    But if they ask why the excessive upstream power is bothering me, is
    any problem other than the inability to split the signal which I can
    complain about? Maybe I should just pay another technician to check
    the wiring.

    Once again, much obliged for all your assistance.

  14. #14
    Robert Nichols
    Guest

    Re: Trying to split a cable signal ...

    In article <1d7bf9af-1749-4935-9b26-8921d8948df9@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
    <NoelSemple1@gmail.com> wrote:
    :
    :But if they ask why the excessive upstream power is bothering me, is
    :any problem other than the inability to split the signal which I can
    :complain about? Maybe I should just pay another technician to check
    :the wiring.

    Just tell them, "Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. And, even
    when it's working, my upstream power level is running right at the
    maximum my modem can put out."

    --
    Bob Nichols AT comcast.net I am "RNichols42"

  15. #15
    Timothy Daniels
    Guest

    Re: Trying to split a cable signal ...

    "Todd H." wrote:
    >
    > That upstream power looks to be at the very edge of usability in my
    > experience.



    That generally means that the modem is transmitting at such a
    high power because it can't "hear" the downstream packets well,
    doesn't it? IOW, there's some kind of attenuation of the down-
    stream signal. Is there a chance that the OP is using a tap, i.e.
    a directional coupler, as a splitter and he has the modem on the
    tapoff port of the coupler?

    *TimDaniels*



  16. #16
    Timothy Daniels
    Guest

    Re: Trying to split a cable signal ...

    <NoelSemple1@gmail.com> wrote:
    > The numbers posted above are without the splitter. Also without
    > the splitter, 500 pings to google.com produced 0% packet loss.
    > With any of the three splitters Iíve tried, I get no connection at all
    > and therefore cannot run tests.


    Assuming that those really are splitters, suspicion turns to the
    cable that runs between the wall and the splitter, or between the
    splitter and the modem. Substitute other cables for those and
    run the test again.

    *TimDaniels*



  17. #17
    Bill M.
    Guest

    Re: Trying to split a cable signal ...

    On Thu, 22 May 2008 16:37:23 -0700, "Timothy Daniels"
    <SpamBucket@NoSpamPlease.biz> wrote:

    >"Todd H." wrote:
    >>
    >> That upstream power looks to be at the very edge of usability in my
    >> experience.

    >
    >
    > That generally means that the modem is transmitting at such a
    >high power because it can't "hear" the downstream packets well,
    >doesn't it? <snip>


    I thought the CMTS sends instructions to the modem to command it to
    increase or decrease its upstream power level on a continuous basis so
    that the upstream signal strength *at the CMTS* is within spec. If so,
    it would mean that upstream and downstream power levels are
    independent of each other.

    --
    Bill

  18. #18
    NoelSemple1@gmail.com
    Guest

    Re: Trying to split a cable signal ...

    On May 22, 8:22 pm, Bill M. <wbill...@hotmail.com> wrote:
    > On Thu, 22 May 2008 16:37:23 -0700, "Timothy Daniels"
    >
    > <SpamBuc...@NoSpamPlease.biz> wrote:
    > >"Todd H." wrote:

    >
    > >> That upstream power looks to be at the very edge of usability in my
    > >> experience.

    >
    > > That generally means that the modem is transmitting at such a
    > >high power because it can't "hear" the downstream packets well,
    > >doesn't it? <snip>

    >
    > I thought the CMTS sends instructions to the modem to command it to
    > increase or decrease its upstream power level on a continuous basis so
    > that the upstream signal strength *at the CMTS* is within spec. If so,
    > it would mean that upstream and downstream power levels are
    > independent of each other.
    >
    > --
    > Bill


    Well the tech came and replaced all of the cables running from the
    alleyway to the house, which he said were obsolete. Somehow, this cut
    off the guilt-free free tv, so the splitter issue is moot. Thanks
    anyway for all of your help.

  19. #19
    Todd H.
    Guest

    Re: Trying to split a cable signal ...

    "Timothy Daniels" <SpamBucket@NoSpamPlease.biz> writes:

    > "Todd H." wrote:
    >>
    >> That upstream power looks to be at the very edge of usability in my
    >> experience.

    >
    >
    > That generally means that the modem is transmitting at such a
    > high power because it can't "hear" the downstream packets well,
    > doesn't it? IOW, there's some kind of attenuation of the down-
    > stream signal.


    Actually it means the upstream signal is getting attenuated on its
    way to the headend to and the head end during training keeps saying
    "crank it up, can't hear you" until they arrive at 55dB.

    > Is there a chance that the OP is using a tap, i.e. a directional
    > coupler, as a splitter and he has the modem on the tapoff port of
    > the coupler?


    Possible. But more likely, he may be using a n inexpensive splitter
    where a DC should be used. I haven't followed the whole thread, but
    really this **** is best left to the cable company to do. Consumers
    can't seem to easily/reasonably get their hands on the things needed
    to do it right: namely, directional couplers and high quality cable
    terminations, and in some cases amplifiers with a passive return are
    needed (but are a last resort, as they add noise which the cable
    modems hate even more than poor signal levels).

    Best Regards,
    --
    Todd H.
    http://www.toddh.net/

  20. #20
    Timothy Daniels
    Guest

    Re: Trying to split a cable signal ...

    "Bill M." wrote:
    > I thought the CMTS sends instructions to the modem to command it to
    > increase or decrease its upstream power level on a continuous basis so
    > that the upstream signal strength *at the CMTS* is within spec.


    Ooops, I think you're right. The CMTS is in charge.

    *TimDaniels*



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