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Thread: Comcast vs Net Neutrality

  1. #1
    Ohh Hell yeah.. Sava700's Avatar
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    Comcast vs Net Neutrality

    Just another reason why Comcast ticks me off at times ... I hope they get really hammered by the FCC and the movie companies that are getting cut off from transfers!


    POWERBOOST and FAST internet!! - But only as long as we want you to have it!

    Under fire from consumer groups and law professors who have issued formal complaints to the Federal Communications Commission, Comcast has told the FCC that hampering some file-sharing by its subscribers was a justifiable way to keep Web traffic flowing for everyone.

    The groups say Comcast (the second-largest ISP in the U.S.) has breached the principle, known as "'Net Neutrality," of treating all Internet traffic equally. Comcast says it must curb some file-sharing traffic because some subscribers would otherwise hog the cables with their uploads and slow traffic in their neighborhood.

    Comcast also said it was justified in using "reset" packets to break off communications between two computers. Comcast sometimes inserts these packets in the data stream to kill a file-sharing session. The move "fools" each computer into believing the other computer wants to end the connection. The return addresses of Comcast's packets indicate they're from one of the file-sharing computers when they are in fact from Comcast.

    They also say the company was hampering movie downloading services because they might compete with Comcast's cable TV business.

  2. #2
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    in the end, file-sharing people are going to end up ****ing all of us over.

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    aww, but your precious gov. said this would never happen!

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    Moderator YeOldeStonecat's Avatar
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    "Comcast says it must curb some file-sharing traffic because some subscribers would otherwise hog the cables with their uploads and slow traffic in their neighborhood."

    I applaud them...I don't want my connection bogged down because 2-3 kids on the same street/node as me run warez downloading/sharing computers 24x7 sucking up the bandwidth that's intended for all other normal users on the node.
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    Quote Originally Posted by YeOldeStonecat View Post
    "Comcast says it must curb some file-sharing traffic because some subscribers would otherwise hog the cables with their uploads and slow traffic in their neighborhood."

    I applaud them...I don't want my connection bogged down because 2-3 kids on the same street/node as me run warez downloading/sharing computers 24x7 sucking up the bandwidth that's intended for all other normal users on the node.

    I agree with that part, the reset packets and the legit movie downlaod sites part though is messed up.

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    Ohh Hell yeah.. Sava700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YeOldeStonecat View Post
    "Comcast says it must curb some file-sharing traffic because some subscribers would otherwise hog the cables with their uploads and slow traffic in their neighborhood."

    I applaud them...I don't want my connection bogged down because 2-3 kids on the same street/node as me run warez downloading/sharing computers 24x7 sucking up the bandwidth that's intended for all other normal users on the node.

    But they pay the same you pay for the service..why should their internet use be punished yet still charged the same monthly fee vs yours? I think comcast like the others just need to build their systems and increase bandwidth to keep up with the demands of these power users. But I believe this all comes down to some people downloading via torrents for legal movies. If they want to punish those that are doing warez like you say..then they should go after just them and not the rest that do it legit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sava700 View Post
    But they pay the same you pay for the service..why should their internet use be punished yet still charged the same monthly fee vs yours? I think comcast like the others just need to build their systems and increase bandwidth to keep up with the demands of these power users. But I believe this all comes down to some people downloading via torrents for legal movies. If they want to punish those that are doing warez like you say..then they should go after just them and not the rest that do it legit.
    So they pay the same amount and should be able to block up all the traffic?

    Nope.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YARDofSTUF View Post
    So they pay the same amount and should be able to block up all the traffic?

    Nope.
    well I also said
    If they want to punish those that are doing warez like you say..then they should go after just them and not the rest that do it legit.
    We are both on the same page here...

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    Second Most EVIL YARDofSTUF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sava700 View Post
    well I also said

    We are both on the same page here...
    Some torrents are legal, they shouldnt be allowed to block up all the traffic just cuz its legal content.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YARDofSTUF View Post
    Some torrents are legal, they shouldnt be allowed to block up all the traffic just cuz its legal content.
    I disagree.. the traffic is no different than a power user downloading windows updates or streaming in youtube videos. If its legal and they pay also a service to get the media using torrents then its well within the terms of service in which they pay for.

    Same goes with game patches now..most mods are releasing them as torrents to offset the costs of paying a large provider like fileplanet to host. When FH2 mod came out I was seeding that torrent at home and in my office for days..and at home it would maybe reach 90k up vs at work I was pushing close to 2Megs up for people.

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    Sava, you're giving far too much credit to "power user downloaders" and torrent-freaks.

    I'm willing to bet that the majority of torrent bandwidth is used for illegal file distribution of software, porn, games, music and movies, and torrents are not known for their impressive compression algorithms. Many users downloading 4 GB+ DVD ISOs puts an enormous strain on the pipes, no way around that fact.

    The bigger problem is that in collusion with the government and the industry bodies, ISPs will be forced to filter everyone's traffic partially because of these massive, unchecked transfers of copyrighted materials. A small handful of freeloaders are going to limit ALL of us, and eventually drive ISPs to tiered rates, effectively pricing many folks out of access to information.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sava700 View Post
    I disagree.. the traffic is no different than a power user downloading windows updates or streaming in youtube videos. If its legal and they pay also a service to get the media using torrents then its well within the terms of service in which they pay for.

    Same goes with game patches now..most mods are releasing them as torrents to offset the costs of paying a large provider like fileplanet to host. When FH2 mod came out I was seeding that torrent at home and in my office for days..and at home it would maybe reach 90k up vs at work I was pushing close to 2Megs up for people.
    1 file being downloaded from 1 connection vs 1 file being downloaded from 200-500 connections is the same? Then why does the difference throw off some routers? I'm not saying eliminate torrents, but limiting them to a certain speed seems to be a good way to handle things.

  13. #13
    I sort of agree with Sava that ..I pay for the service I should be able to do whatever I want with it in terms of downloading but I also agree with Burke that the overwhelming majority of traffic from torrents are copyrighted material. I guess I can't prove that my connection/speed has been affected by my neighbors behavior because if we're supposed to take the words only from our ISP's ....well they've already proven they cannot be trusted.

    just a couple thoughts

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    LONDON (Reuters) - A file-sharing program called BitTorrent has become a behemoth, devouring more than a third of the Internet's bandwidth, and Hollywood's copyright cops are taking notice.

    For those who know where to look, there's a wealth of content, both legal -- such as hip-hop from the Beastie Boys and video game promos -- and illicit, including a wide range of TV shows, computer games and movies.
    An exec from NBC Universal recently made the claim that P2P activity accounted for 60-70% of all internet traffic as part of a comment saying the FCC should force ISPs to police their networks for copyrighted content that's being illegally shared. Such claims aren't new, and are often trotted out by ISPs complaining that bandwidth hogs are bogging down their networks, even though it certainly appears that they're overstating the problem. In any case, a new study from a maker of deep packet inspection gear (the stuff ISPs use to monitor and filter traffic on their networks) says that HTTP has surpassed P2P as the most prevalent type of traffic, thanks largely to YouTube. The study says that site now accounts for 10 percent of all traffic on the net, and has boosted HTTP traffic to now account for 46% of all traffic, with P2P responsible for just 37%.
    P2P traffic is dominating the Internet these days, according to a new survey from ipoque, a German traffic management and analysis firm. ipoque's "preliminary results" show that P2P applications account from anywhere between 50 percent and 90 percent of all Internet traffic. The final survey results are not yet available and will presented at the Emerging Technology Conference at MIT later this month.
    I don't think the experts know the full extent of what torrents are doing to the overall traffic "flow" on the net.
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    Conspiracy Fool knightmare's Avatar
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    The USA ranks 15th in world in average broadband speed. And the honest truth is because the american people are getting squeezed slowly for premium rates, a little at a time.


    "A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer."

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    Quote Originally Posted by knightmare View Post
    The USA ranks 15th in world in average broadband speed. And the honest truth is because the american people are getting squeezed slowly for premium rates, a little at a time.


    http://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/I...speedchart.jpg

    One problem is the amount of cable thats needed to reach some areas for us. And that in turn means slower speed from dsl.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by knightmare View Post
    The USA ranks 15th in world in average broadband speed. And the honest truth is because the american people are getting squeezed slowly for premium rates, a little at a time.


    http://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/I...speedchart.jpg
    Well although this is true you have to remember that most of the lines and cables we are moving data through in the US have been here for many years vs japan and others that are just now building their systems using modern means thus they have the ability to transfer at higher speeds. Plus you look at thousands of people living in the same building in which a network would be fast vs someone in the US rural area that has a house miles away from the nearest major network.

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    Net Neutrality? This has nothing to do with Net Neutrality. Your breaking the law when you share or download copyrighted material. You also clog the network. Use encryption, don't download as much and for god sake stop with the ******** arguments; "If "insert evil corporation here" business model wasn't so screwed I buy all my stuff", or "All information should be free", or Some obfuscated definition of Net Neutrality. It makes people look dim. Stealing stuff shouldn't have a grass roots community.
    She's presenting like a mandrill!

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    Moderator YeOldeStonecat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sava700 View Post
    But they pay the same you pay for the service..why should their internet use be punished yet still charged the same monthly fee vs yours? I think comcast like the others just need to build their systems and increase bandwidth to keep up with the demands of these power users.
    Because what you've not realized yet (based on many posts of yours) is that ISPs set home internet connection prices based on an "average usage", they have formulas based on bandwidth use per client. There is an "oversubscription formula"..meaning they sell (and all ISPs do this) more bandwidth that they have available, knowing that only a % of users will be online at any one time using % of available bandwidth. No they do not want you the end user to max out your full 8 megs of downloading 24x7x365. Believe it or not...like it or not...your contract with your ISP does not state you can use all of that bandwidth maxed out 24x7x365. You can use it "within reason". And "up to" speeds.

    This is one of the reasons business accounts cost more....because they know a business will be online all day long...heavier traffic, more workstations online, a mail server perhaps...thus logically more bandwidth used. Using more of the ISP resources costs more.

    Upping the nodes (at great costs) just to satisfy the teensy tinsey percentage of users who are P2P bandwidth abusers...guess what....COSTS A LOT OF MONEY. And the rest of us users suffer from that...via increased monthly bills. P2P users probably constitute less than 3% of overall broadband users. Yet...take the leash off of them...they would probably suck up over 75% of the available bandwidth. So 97% of the regular users suffer and have to pay more just to keep 3% of the users happy?
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by YeOldeStonecat View Post
    Because what you've not realized yet (based on many posts of yours) is that ISPs set home internet connection prices based on an "average usage", they have formulas based on bandwidth use per client. There is an "oversubscription formula"..meaning they sell (and all ISPs do this) more bandwidth that they have available, knowing that only a % of users will be online at any one time using % of available bandwidth. No they do not want you the end user to max out your full 8 megs of downloading 24x7x365. Believe it or not...like it or not...your contract with your ISP does not state you can use all of that bandwidth maxed out 24x7x365. You can use it "within reason". And "up to" speeds.

    This is one of the reasons business accounts cost more....because they know a business will be online all day long...heavier traffic, more workstations online, a mail server perhaps...thus logically more bandwidth used. Using more of the ISP resources costs more.

    Upping the nodes (at great costs) just to satisfy the teensy tinsey percentage of users who are P2P bandwidth abusers...guess what....COSTS A LOT OF MONEY. And the rest of us users suffer from that...via increased monthly bills. P2P users probably constitute less than 3% of overall broadband users. Yet...take the leash off of them...they would probably suck up over 75% of the available bandwidth. So 97% of the regular users suffer and have to pay more just to keep 3% of the users happy?

    If your paying for 6meg package, your modem is provisioned to receive the download and upload speed. If little billy wants to download P2P crap all day long its not going to effect your provisioned bandwidth since its already allocated to you. Thats why alot of ISP's have once you hit a certain "invisible" amount of usage a month they will cut you off. Still the bottom line is if I pay 60$/month and you pay 60$/month for the same package of internet I expect to use what I'm alloted per my package provisioned any way I see fit at any rate be it 24/7/365..if the ISP has a issue with my usage going high then fine they would let me know or cut me off or whatever. But your usage isn't going to suffer...however if the ISP such as Comcast lets the nod get so saturated that its going to cause a problem they they need to invest and split the clients.

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