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Thread: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

  1. #141
    Sebastian G.
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    nemo_outis wrote:

    > "Sebastian G." <seppi@seppig.de> wrote in
    > news:615b23F1sfp4gU2@mid.dfncis.de:
    >
    >> Such a modification is even explicitly intended by Microsoft, it's
    >> called an "unattended setup".

    >
    > It's not the unintended setup that's unsupported ny Microsoft, but setup to
    > a removable drive (e.g., USB)



    Unsupported, not crippled.

    > Yes, blatantly implausible ones.



    Just call them "standard practices" and troll away, please!

  2. #142
    Sebastian G.
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    nemo_outis wrote:


    >> - This is not a limitation of Windows' boot process. Why do you think
    >> it is?
    >>
    >> - storing the initial boot loader on another media to avoid running a
    >> potentially modified bootloader from the disk in neither unknown nor
    >> unusual, so it's no wonder that some products actually implement this

    >
    > How can you be this stupid, Sebastian? No matter how easy you think it
    > is, no matter how badly you want it, the plain fact of the matter is that
    > WINDOWS DOESN'T DO IT!



    Windows obviously does it for unencrypted media, and for encrypted media PGP
    WholeDisk has been working with this for quite a while. Now will you finally
    stop ignoring trivial facts? There's nothing special with that this simply
    works, it's so trivial that even the programmers from Microsoft implemented
    it. In fact, its hard to implement a boot loader which does not support
    being stage 2.

  3. #143
    Sebastian G.
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    Anonymous wrote:


    >> Which is wrong again. For all those FDE products which use CBC
    >> mode, the swap file is likely to contain an IV, which leaks the

    >
    > Which doesn't matter one ****ing bit because unless it's mounted,
    > it's encrypted.


    >


    > What an idiot.



    The only idiot here is you, because you can't read. The fact that data is
    leaked even though the pagefile is on the encrypted volume is exactly the issue!

    >> first block of data for every CBC block. For LRW, swapping out an
    >> empty page with the LRW tweak key at the beginning or the end
    >> will allow an attacker to retrieve the LRW tweak, and therefore
    >> distinguishing the encrypted volume from random data. For ESSIV
    >> it's the same.



  4. #144
    Sebastian G.
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer wrote:

    > nemo_outis wrote:
    >
    >> George Orwell <nobody@mixmaster.it> wrote in
    >> news:cfba7ec8f8b207e0a1bd089fe3255024@mixmaster.it:
    >>
    >>> nemo_outis wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> There must - necessarily! - be a small amount of unencrypted code on
    >>>> the boot/system volume. This is invariably located on track 0.
    >>> Nope! I fact with *true* whole disk encryption there is absolutely no
    >>> unencrypted information on a device at all.

    >> Uhh, doofus, Windows cannot boot from a completely encrypted disk because
    >> there's nothing to decrypt those first bytes to even get the process

    >
    > Wrong!
    >
    > Windows can trivially boot from a completely, 100% end to end including
    > sector 0, encrypted drive without modifying Windows at all, without
    > using any external bootstrapping at all, and without using any stupid
    > "boot sector copying" scheme.



    OK, now I'm interested: How is this supposed to work? If everything is
    encrypted, where's the code for the decryption?

  5. #145
    Sebastian G.
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    nemo_outis wrote:

    > Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer <anonymous@remailer.cyberiade.it> wrote
    > in news:24250861f8cfd5a440460111e28b78d8@remailer.cyberiade.it:
    >
    > Windows cannot boot from a completely encrypted disk because there's
    > nothing to decrypt those first bytes to even get the process started.


    This decryption can be provided by an additional, removal media. The media
    only decrypts the the boot loader mini driver, which is turn will decrypt
    the relevant files, boot up the Windows kernel and pass over control to the
    actual decryption driver.

    TrueCrypt does not support this scheme. PGP Whole Disk Encryption does, and
    some other claim to do so as well.


    Indeed, in his special limitation where no such external boot loader is
    used, it's of course nonsense.

  6. #146
    Sebastian G.
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer wrote:


    > Denying the obvious and quibbling like a school girl over meaningless
    > semantics doesn't make YOU appear clever. In spite of what you think.



    If it's really crippled, then why does Microsoft WinPE toolkit explicitly
    support this operation?

    >> Well, then tell me just one thing: If it was really crippled, then why was I
    >> able to unleash this functionality with nothing but a text editor and an
    >> archiver (for unpacking and optionally repacking the CABinet archives)?

    >
    > Obviously, your text editor and achiever were all the tools needed You
    > "fixed" something just like a doctor might re-break a leg and set it
    > properly to correct some crippling disability.



    No. If it was crippled, then these tools wouldn't have been sufficiet. I'd
    have needed a disassembler and a hex editor to alter the code.

    The only thing I altered were public configuration options, which do exist
    exactly for the purpose of configurability.

  7. #147
    Nomen Nescio
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    nemo_outis wrote:

    Good grief! That was such a lexically desperate cluster**** it's tough
    to know for sure, and your testosterone levels have dropped so far
    you can't handle quoting anything so htere's no context, but apparently
    you're so flustered you're cowering back behind your (HEY LOOK OVER
    THERE EVERYONE!) == (good security) crap again.

    Once again dullard, "plausible" is a subjective term with no absolutes
    that aren't defined on a case by case basis, in a subjective manner.
    Even Truecrypt acknowledges this on the own web site.

    Wanna be bitch slapped with another cite today grasshopper?

    *evil snicker*


  8. #148
    Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    Sebastian G. wrote:

    > nemo_outis wrote:
    >
    >
    > > If you have some argument to show how an unencrypted partition
    > > table would permit decrypting the contents of of an encrypted
    > > partition, then make it.

    >
    >
    > It doesn't. What it permits is to differ the encrypted disc from
    > random data, and it permits knowledge about the partitioning of
    > the volume inside the encrypted container.


    Only half right. Knowing what type of data might be contained in an
    encrypted volume does in general assist in cryptanalysis. Some
    forms of this attack are known as "watermarking". Taken to the
    extreme it's called a "known plaintext" attack. You have heard
    those terms before, haven't you?

    And yes, before we start quibbling about the differences so
    you can ignore the obvious similarities, those differences exist.
    However not as markedly as you may suspect at first jerk. Knowing
    that an encrypted volume contains in fact can lead to an actual
    known plaintext attack if you're aware of the encrypted volume's
    topography (freely published knowledge in this case), and have
    knowledge of where certain things will reside within that volume.
    Since Windows places certain things in specific areas of a disk,
    knowing what's contained inside that encrypted volume enables an
    easier collation, and ultimately, the possibility of a successful
    attack.

    Not that I'm aware of any sort of exploitable known plaintext
    weakness in Truecrypt of course. I believe it to be quite secure.
    But in general this demonstrates one possible weakness that might
    be introduced in a plaintext partition table scenario. And if you
    really consider things broadly, it spotlights why OTP is considered
    the only truly unbreakable form of encryption. If a ciphertext can
    potentially be "anything", it's impossible to even know if you've
    successfully decrypted it or not. ;)


  9. #149
    Anon
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in
    news:82ea57176532ddf0881ca98427937d4a@dizum.com:

    > nemo_outis wrote:
    >
    >> >> Bestcrypt Volume Encryption for Windows is among the most advanced
    >> >> full-HD OTFE encryption systems. Not only can it encrypt all HD
    >> >> partitions on all HDs (including the boot/system one) it supports
    >> >> complete encyption of spanned, mirrored, and striped volumes, as
    >> >> well as RAID 5 volumes. It also supports physical tokens in
    >> >> addition to a password/passphrase for additional security.
    >> >>
    >> >> http://www.jetico.com/bcve.htm
    >> >
    >> > That paragraph doesn't exist at all on that page. Or anywhere else
    >> > on Jetico's site that I can find.

    >>
    >> Of course, you ****ing moron, that paragraph is mine, in my words -
    >> there are no quotation marks, no "Jeticos says" in it. It's a
    >> simple description and characterization of the program clearly
    >> provided by me, the author of the post, the fellow with his name in
    >> the "From" header - just as anyone who wasn't a moron like you would
    >> expect. You've just failed to comprehend plain English - yet again.

    >
    > I almost feel sorry for you. Even you had to cringe when you made the
    > decision to try and float such a whopper.
    >
    > *snicker*
    >
    > Nobody is going to buy it liar. If you're going to play that way
    > you're going to at least play on some level above "imbecile". Come up
    > with a credible lie. Maybe "Oh, they must have just changed that page
    > when they released 5.0" or something. It wouldn't really help all that
    > much because the link you provided says exactly the opposite of the
    > lie you tried to tell, but at the bottom end of the evolutionary
    > ladder you would, at least, stand out among your peers.
    >

    You simply mistook his statement for a quote, and you can't seem
    to see that his explanation makes perfect sense.

    It was not in quotes or set off by indentation, and he never claimed
    it was a quote.

    What is your problem?

    "*snicker*"

    Oh, and that's me, quoting you.

    *snicker*

    and then me giggling like a stupid idiot.

















  10. #150
    Sebastian G.
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer wrote:

    > it spotlights why OTP is considered
    > the only truly unbreakable form of encryption. If a ciphertext can
    > potentially be "anything", it's impossible to even know if you've
    > successfully decrypted it or not. ;)



    OTP's security comes from the fact that knowing the message doesn't change
    the a priory probability of the plaintext. It never claimed that all
    plaintexts are equally likely.

  11. #151
    George Orwell
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    nemo_outis wrote:

    > Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer <anonymous@remailer.cyberiade.it> wrote
    > in news:24250861f8cfd5a440460111e28b78d8@remailer.cyberiade.it:
    >
    > Windows cannot boot from a completely encrypted disk because there's
    > nothing to decrypt those first bytes to even get the process started.


    Wanna bet? If I post a link that proves Windows can boot
    from a 100% encrypted device, including the MBR, WITHOUT
    using any other software or copying any information at
    all to or from anywhere, will you put on your clown suit
    and dance for us, then leave?

    >
    > Regards,
    >


    Il mittente di questo messaggio|The sender address of this
    non corrisponde ad un utente |message is not related to a real
    reale ma all'indirizzo fittizio|person but to a fake address of an
    di un sistema anonimizzatore |anonymous system
    Per maggiori informazioni |For more info
    https://www.mixmaster.it


  12. #152
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    Sebastian G. wrote:

    > Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer wrote:
    >
    > > nemo_outis wrote:
    > >
    > >> George Orwell <nobody@mixmaster.it> wrote in
    > >> news:cfba7ec8f8b207e0a1bd089fe3255024@mixmaster.it:
    > >>
    > >>> nemo_outis wrote:
    > >>>
    > >>>> There must - necessarily! - be a small amount of unencrypted code on
    > >>>> the boot/system volume. This is invariably located on track 0.
    > >>> Nope! I fact with *true* whole disk encryption there is absolutely no
    > >>> unencrypted information on a device at all.
    > >> Uhh, doofus, Windows cannot boot from a completely encrypted disk because
    > >> there's nothing to decrypt those first bytes to even get the process

    > >
    > > Wrong!
    > >
    > > Windows can trivially boot from a completely, 100% end to end including
    > > sector 0, encrypted drive without modifying Windows at all, without
    > > using any external bootstrapping at all, and without using any stupid
    > > "boot sector copying" scheme.

    >
    >
    > OK, now I'm interested: How is this supposed to work? If everything is
    > encrypted, where's the code for the decryption?


    Come on, you can figure it out before Nemo I'll bet. ;)

    And at that point you'll begin to grasp the meaning of full disk
    encryption too. :)


  13. #153
    nemo_outis
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    Keep rereading it until you understand it - eventually you may get it.

    Regards,

  14. #154
    nemo_outis
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    Anonymous <nobody@aes256.cn> wrote in
    news:467a6c3e67d87672537f410df031956d@aes256.cn:

    No, Windows boots from the system drive.

    You can hack Windows to do otherwise. I myself have used bit & pieces of
    the PE kit and embedded version to do just that - but it's a hack.

    Regards,


  15. #155
    nemo_outis
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in
    news:6270a31775d25da7059bfd247d8d8412@dizum.com:

    Back again with the same ********? You get the same answer as last time.

    If you have some argument to show how an unencrypted partition table would
    permit decrypting the contents of of an encrypted partition, then make it.
    If not, then, as I have repeatedly suggested: Do be a good little moron and
    **** off.

    Regards,

  16. #156
    nemo_outis
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    George Orwell <nobody@mixmaster.it> wrote in
    news:69260f18808f2e54180e245439fe6696@mixmaster.it:

    If you have something to say, say it.

    Then, if it's not utter nonsence, I may reply.

    Regards,

  17. #157
    nemo_outis
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    George Orwell <nobody@mixmaster.it> wrote in
    news:2f232c66d7dd1e5ccf22d1b0cb3ad90b@mixmaster.it:

    You still have figured things out? You'd better reread it yet again.

    Regards,

  18. #158
    nemo_outis
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    "Sebastian G." <seppi@seppig.de> wrote in
    news:616neqF1thrluU2@mid.dfncis.de:

    >> It's not the unintended setup that's unsupported ny Microsoft, but
    >> setup to a removable drive (e.g., USB)

    >
    > Unsupported, not crippled.


    More quibbling and caviling, Sebastian. Microsoft does NOT support Windows
    configured in such ways. In short, it's a hack, Sebastian.

    Regards,

  19. #159
    nemo_outis
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    "Sebastian G." <seppi@seppig.de> wrote in
    news:616nm0F1thrluU3@mid.dfncis.de:

    Micrsoft ionly supports Windows booting from the system disk - anything
    else is a hack.

    Regards,

  20. #160
    nemo_outis
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    "Sebastian G." <seppi@seppig.de> wrote in
    news:616o5pF1thrluU6@mid.dfncis.de:

    > nemo_outis wrote:
    >
    >> Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer <anonymous@remailer.cyberiade.it>
    >> wrote in news:24250861f8cfd5a440460111e28b78d8@remailer.cyberiade.it:
    >>
    >> Windows cannot boot from a completely encrypted disk because there's
    >> nothing to decrypt those first bytes to even get the process started.

    >
    > This decryption can be provided by an additional, removal media. The
    > media only decrypts the the boot loader mini driver, which is turn
    > will decrypt the relevant files, boot up the Windows kernel and pass
    > over control to the actual decryption driver.
    >
    > TrueCrypt does not support this scheme. PGP Whole Disk Encryption
    > does, and some other claim to do so as well.


    Yes, but this is a hack of Windows, Sebastian.

    I've hacked Windows in similar ways myself - I have a stripped down
    version of XP that boots from a USB stick. Very handy for
    diagnostics/recovery when things go awry.

    And, of course, one can do adiitional hacks so that the initialization
    code on one device (e.g., a USB stick) hands off the rest of Windows
    operation to a separate volume (commonly a RAM disk, but potentially a
    HD).

    But these are hacks of Windows, Sebastain - completely unsupported.

    Regards,



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