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Thread: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

  1. #61
    Sebastian G.
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    nemo_outis wrote:


    > Yes, Sebastian, exactly as I said: you can only do it if you hack
    > Windows.



    Just ignoring the fact that this is all documented, and even implemented
    with Microsoft's very own preinstall kit.

    > However, what I said above is irrefragably true: Truecrypt v5, as it now
    > stands, provides ALL the core functionality necessary for complete OTFE
    > protection of both the Windows OS and all data on all drives.


    Doesn't make it any more true: When using pre-boot authentication, the
    partition table is unencrypted.

  2. #62
    Sebastian G.
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    Anonymous wrote:


    >> Nonsense. Microsoft has only disabled this option by default, since
    >> they don't want to support such configurations.

    >
    > Maybe you can explain teh difference between "crippled" and "disabled"?



    Documentation and partial support.

  3. #63
    nemo_outis
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    George Orwell <nobody@mixmaster.it> wrote in
    news:6cb67025e78b69b29b7578cf72c420f4@mixmaster.it:

    > nemo_outis wrote:
    >
    > Did you think nobody would check this "cite", ya' pathetic lying worm?
    >
    >> Bestcrypt Volume Encryption for Windows is among the most advanced
    >> full-HD OTFE encryption systems. Not only can it encrypt all HD
    >> partitions on all HDs (including the boot/system one) it supports
    >> complete encyption of spanned, mirrored, and striped volumes, as well
    >> as RAID 5 volumes. It also supports physical tokens in addition to a
    >> password/passphrase for additional security.
    >>
    >> http://www.jetico.com/bcve.htm

    >
    > That paragraph doesn't exist at all on that page. Or anywhere else on
    > Jetico's site that I can find.



    Of course, you ****ing moron, that paragraph is mine, in my words - there
    are no quotation marks, no "Jeticos says" in it. It's a simple
    description and characterization of the program clearly provided by me,
    the author of the post, the fellow with his name in the "From" header -
    just as anyone who wasn't a moron like you would expect. You've just
    failed to comprehend plain English - yet again.

    The cite was provided for convenience to allow readers to check for
    themselves what Bestcrypt says about its product. And the cite was set
    off in a completely separate paragraph specifically so as not to directly
    link it to my words above.

    As for what Bestcrypt says about the term "volume," you would understand,
    if you weren't such a colossal moron, that Bestcrypt uses the term in a
    broader sense than Truecrypt to refer to "high-level storage entities"
    that can, inter alia, extend across multiple hard drives (such as spanned
    volumes or RAID 5). Jetico makes the distinction between "volume" and
    "whole-disk" encryption because its product can support seamless
    "volumes" which may be stored across several physical HDs.

    Now do be a good moron and **** off.

    Regards,


  4. #64
    nemo_outis
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    "Sebastian G." <seppi@seppig.de> wrote in
    news:613hfiF1tqd2kU2@mid.dfncis.de:

    > nemo_outis wrote:
    >
    >
    >> Yes, Sebastian, exactly as I said: you can only do it if you hack
    >> Windows.


    > Just ignoring the fact that this is all documented, and even
    > implemented with Microsoft's very own preinstall kit.


    No, Sebastian, you're dead wrong. But as I said in the previous post, I
    don't have time to follow you into every thicket of misunderstanding you
    fall into to disentangle you.

    >> However, what I said above is irrefragably true: Truecrypt v5, as it
    >> now stands, provides ALL the core functionality necessary for
    >> complete OTFE protection of both the Windows OS and all data on all
    >> drives.

    >
    > Doesn't make it any more true: When using pre-boot authentication, the
    > partition table is unencrypted.


    And it doesn't matter a whit! Truecrypt can completely protect the OS and
    all data.

    Regards,




  5. #65
    George Orwell
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    nemo_outis wrote:

    > Are you usually this thick? Yes, even though you have a whole-disk
    > encryption program you can choose not to encrypt some partitions - or any
    > of them for that matter. However, choosing not to use the program's
    > capability for whole-disk encryption doesn't make it one whit less a
    > whole-disk encryption program.


    "We call encryption software working with volumes Volume Encryption
    software. Note that if Volume Encryption software encrypts a volume
    consisting of a single partition, for the user it will give the same
    result as Partition Encryption software. If a single partition occupies
    the whole hard drive, Volume Encryption will be equal both to Whole
    Disk Encryption and Partition Encryption. Encrypting of basic partition
    C: on Figure 3 below illustrates that."

    http://www.jetico.com/bcve_web_help/...what_is_ve.htm

    *snicker*

    > As for an unencrypted partition table disclosing info, that trivial info
    > is useless for decrypting the contents of the partitions or even
    > inferring the nature of what is contained in them.


    I see. So now you believe you're smarter than all the encryption
    and cryptanalysis experts that ever lived, combined.

    You've already had your ears boxed with one cite you couldn't even find
    the courage to reply to. Care to try for some more?

    > As for Truecrypt supposedly not being a whole-disk encryption program,
    > that's just plain wrong.


    "Volume Encryption software works with volume as with a single portion
    of data. Volume is always in one of the two definite states: if
    password is not entered, the whole volume is not accessible. If the
    user enters the proper password and opens the volume, all its parts,
    even stored on different hard drives, become accessible. In our
    opinion, working with volumes is more native both for the user and
    computer, because it is a volume that stores a complete filesystem
    structure and a complete tree of the user's files. As in the modern
    world single volume stores data scattered on a number of physical
    disks, it is more convenient and safe to manage a volume, rather than
    work with every physical drive separately."

    http://www.jetico.com/bcve_web_help/...what_is_ve.htm

    *snicker*

    Il mittente di questo messaggio|The sender address of this
    non corrisponde ad un utente |message is not related to a real
    reale ma all'indirizzo fittizio|person but to a fake address of an
    di un sistema anonimizzatore |anonymous system
    Per maggiori informazioni |For more info
    https://www.mixmaster.it


  6. #66
    nemo_outis
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    is Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in
    news:1d77e939150828e3747369f16981a543@dizum.com:

    ....
    > I don't think it's ever going to be 100% possible to guarantee that
    > any software running atop and operating system can successfully keep
    > that host from storing information about what that program does,
    > somewhere the program isn't aware of. It is, after all, the operating
    > system that's running the show.


    Absolutely correct. In fact, I posted several years ago how, in principle,
    how a rogue OS could leak the key of an OTFE program into the very HD
    storage it is protecting - and do it while not corrupting that OTFE program
    in any way but using it completely according to Hoyle.

    I'll be happy to post the method again if anyone cares.

    Regards,


  7. #67
    nemo_outis
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    George Orwell <nobody@mixmaster.it> wrote in
    news:bf6ea79edec361e1aad589185e7d1167@mixmaster.it:

    > nemo_outis wrote:

    ....
    >> As for an unencrypted partition table disclosing info, that trivial
    >> info is useless for decrypting the contents of the partitions or even
    >> inferring the nature of what is contained in them.


    > I see. So now you believe you're smarter than all the encryption
    > and cryptanalysis experts that ever lived, combined.



    You see little and comprehend less.

    If you have some argument to show how an unencrypted partition table would
    permit decrypting the contents of of an encrypted partition, then make it.
    If not, then, as I have repeatedly suggested: Do be a good little moron and
    **** off.

    Regards,

  8. #68
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    Sebastian G. wrote:

    > Anonymous wrote:
    >
    >
    > >> Nonsense. Microsoft has only disabled this option by default, since
    > >> they don't want to support such configurations.

    > >
    > > Maybe you can explain teh difference between "crippled" and "disabled"?

    >
    >
    > Documentation and partial support.


    Telling someone their leg is irreparably broken and handing the a set
    of crutches doesn't make them any less crippled or disabled.

    You're engaging in a semantics quibble that doesn't even exist, but
    then you seem to enjoy that sort of thing. Never have to admit you were
    wrong about something if you just make up the rules as you go, now do
    you? :(


  9. #69
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    nospamatall wrote:

    > Anonymous wrote:
    > > nospamatall wrote:
    > >
    > >> Casper wrote:
    > >>>> No, it's not. With a two partition setup and both encrypted
    > >>>> you can still see partition information booting from a LiveCD
    > >>>>
    > >>>> It's NOT whole disk encryption. It was never advertised as
    > >>>> such.
    > >>> Thank you for the info, I am glad you understand the
    > >>> difference between asking for a password on boot up and
    > >>> having the whole thing encrypted, too many people confuse
    > >>> these terms.
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >> I can see that there is a difference, but why would it be
    > >> important? If the entire disk is encrypted, how could you do
    > >> anything with it?

    > >
    > > We were just discussing the issue of plausible deniability, and
    > > determining if individual encrypted devices/volumes existed at
    > > all. If you need to hide the fact that certain volumes exist
    > > then it becomes an issue.

    >
    > I would have thought that this is not an issue with TrueCrypt,
    > because the hidden partition is within the free space of another
    > encrypted partition and thus doesn't show up anywhere else?


    except maybe in caches, swap space, histories and logs, last
    modified fields, etc...........

    with whole disk nothing can ever be leaked to another partition or
    anywhere else that anyone can see without owning the keys.
    partition encryption can leak like a sieve.



















  10. #70
    George Orwell
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    nemo_outis wrote:

    > There must - necessarily! - be a small amount of unencrypted code on the
    > boot/system volume. This is invariably located on track 0.


    Nope! I fact with *true* whole disk encryption there is absolutely no
    unencrypted information on a device at all.

    Puzzle over it a while and then I'll do the nose rubbing thing some
    more. :)

    Il mittente di questo messaggio|The sender address of this
    non corrisponde ad un utente |message is not related to a real
    reale ma all'indirizzo fittizio|person but to a fake address of an
    di un sistema anonimizzatore |anonymous system
    Per maggiori informazioni |For more info
    https://www.mixmaster.it


  11. #71
    Sebastian G.
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    nemo_outis wrote:


    > And it doesn't matter a whit! Truecrypt can completely protect the OS and
    > all data.



    And this was never disputed. Disputed was the claim that the entire disk was
    encrypted whereas the partition table and the boot sector is obviously not.
    And sadly since TrueCrypt does not offer any mechanism so store the boot
    sector on another media, both are mutually exclusive.

    And it does matter, since it disallows for plausible deniability.

  12. #72
    Sebastian G.
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    nemo_outis wrote:


    > If you have some argument to show how an unencrypted partition table would
    > permit decrypting the contents of of an encrypted partition, then make it.



    It doesn't. What it permits is to differ the encrypted disc from random
    data, and it permits knowledge about the partitioning of the volume inside
    the encrypted container.

  13. #73
    Sebastian G.
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer wrote:


    > On the contrary. FDE can't possibly exist without some sort of pre-boot
    > authentication.



    It can, if you stop insisting that the encrypted disc must contain the
    operating system.

    > The very definition of "full disk" precludes any access at all without it.



    Obviously wrong.

    >> But well, why should I discuss with someone who is even too stupid to create
    >> a technically valid posting?

    >
    > Says you, whose entire arsenal consists of calling everyone else stupid
    > and spewing made up nonsense.


    No, that would be you.

  14. #74
    Sebastian G.
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    Anonymous wrote:

    > Sebastian G. wrote:
    >
    >> Anonymous wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>> Nonsense. Microsoft has only disabled this option by default, since
    >>>> they don't want to support such configurations.
    >>> Maybe you can explain teh difference between "crippled" and "disabled"?

    >>
    >> Documentation and partial support.

    >
    > Telling someone their leg is irreparably broken and handing the a set
    > of crutches doesn't make them any less crippled or disabled.



    Making bad analogies doesn't make your point any less moot.

    > You're engaging in a semantics quibble that doesn't even exist, but
    > then you seem to enjoy that sort of thing. Never have to admit you were
    > wrong about something if you just make up the rules as you go, now do
    > you? :(



    Well, then tell me just one thing: If it was really crippled, then why was I
    able to unleash this functionality with nothing but a text editor and an
    archiver (for unpacking and optionally repacking the CABinet archives)?

  15. #75
    Sebastian G.
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    Anonymous wrote:


    > except maybe in caches, swap space, histories and logs, last
    > modified fields, etc...........
    >
    > with whole disk nothing can ever be leaked to another partition or
    > anywhere else that anyone can see without owning the keys.
    > partition encryption can leak like a sieve.



    Which is wrong again. For all those FDE products which use CBC mode, the
    swap file is likely to contain an IV, which leaks the first block of data
    for every CBC block. For LRW, swapping out an empty page with the LRW tweak
    key at the beginning or the end will allow an attacker to retrieve the LRW
    tweak, and therefore distinguishing the encrypted volume from random data.
    For ESSIV it's the same.

    Lucky you that TrueCrypt 5.0 introduced XTS as the only mode for creating
    new encrypted volumes.

  16. #76
    Nomen Nescio
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    nemo_outis wrote:

    > George Orwell <nobody@mixmaster.it> wrote in
    > news:6cb67025e78b69b29b7578cf72c420f4@mixmaster.it:
    >
    > > nemo_outis wrote:
    > >
    > > Did you think nobody would check this "cite", ya' pathetic
    > > lying worm?
    > >
    > >> Bestcrypt Volume Encryption for Windows is among the most
    > >> advanced full-HD OTFE encryption systems. Not only can it
    > >> encrypt all HD partitions on all HDs (including the
    > >> boot/system one) it supports complete encyption of spanned,
    > >> mirrored, and striped volumes, as well as RAID 5 volumes. It
    > >> also supports physical tokens in addition to a
    > >> password/passphrase for additional security.
    > >> http://www.jetico.com/bcve.htm

    > >
    > > That paragraph doesn't exist at all on that page. Or anywhere
    > > else on Jetico's site that I can find.

    >
    >
    > Of course, you ****ing moron, that paragraph is mine, in my words
    > - there are no quotation marks, no "Jeticos says" in it. It's a


    ROTFL!

    What is was, *******, was you getting caught playing your little
    kid games and showing everyone just what a ****ing liar you can be
    when you're wrong.

    What is was, *******, was you making up a cite then giving a link
    that said exactly the opposite.

    > As for what Bestcrypt says about the term "volume," you would
    > understand, if you weren't such a colossal moron, that Bestcrypt


    God you're a ****ing jerk. Bestcrypt ****ing well states in no
    uncertain terms that volume and whole disk are different things,
    that their product is volume encryption, and that nemo_retardus is
    wrong. But never one to let something like obvious facts get in
    your way, here you are telling someone ELSE they don't understand
    something.

    You really managed to display your spots today liar, and they're
    looking like you **** all over yourself.

    > uses the term in a broader sense than Truecrypt to refer to
    > "high-level storage entities" that can, inter alia, extend across
    > multiple hard drives (such as spanned volumes or RAID 5). Jetico
    > makes the distinction between "volume" and "whole-disk"
    > encryption because its product can support seamless "volumes"
    > which may be stored across several physical HDs.
    >
    > Now do be a good moron and **** off.
    >
    > Regards,
    >



  17. #77
    nospamatall
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    Sebastian G. wrote:
    > Anonymous wrote:
    >
    >
    >>> Maybe you're just stupid. Why do you narrow your views to one
    >>> drive? You can have two or more. One contains the operating
    >>> system, does the pre-boot stuff and has an identifyable partition
    >>> table. The second drive is meant to store data, and is fully
    >>> encrypted, including the partition table.

    >>
    >> Maybe you're just a lying sack, desperately trying to change the
    >> rules to try and win a point.
    >>
    >> Can you install an OS to ANY device that's been encrypted by
    >> Truecrypt? No.

    >
    >
    > That has never been a requirement.


    You can install an OS and then encrypt the whole drive. Maybe you can do
    the other thing too, but I doubt we would find out anything useful from
    these folks!

  18. #78
    nospamatall
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    Casper wrote:
    >>
    >> Who cares for installing an OS? This drive only contains data, the OS
    >> is on another media.

    >
    > LOL LOL LOL >:|
    >
    > You will never understand what we are talking about.
    > Maybe your posts should not appear in alt.privacy at all
    > I am putting up a filter.

    Maybe if you elucidated what the **** you're talking about instead of
    being a smug bastard with no info to offer...

  19. #79
    nospamatall
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    Phil Carmody wrote:
    > Casper <spam@spam.spam> writes:
    >>> Who cares for installing an OS? This drive only contains data, the
    >>> OS is on another media.

    >> LOL LOL LOL >:|
    >>
    >> You will never understand what we are talking about.
    >> Maybe your posts should not appear in alt.privacy at all
    >> I am putting up a filter.

    >
    > Anything which separates alt.privacy from sci.crypt is
    > a good thing. Keeping your ill-thought-out gibberings
    > off sci.crypt would in particular be appreciated.
    >
    > Phil

    You're welcome to kill the thread and then anyone who wants to read it
    still can. You think usenet is just for you?

  20. #80
    nospamatall
    Guest

    Re: Truecrypt 5.0 Released (now with system partition encryption)

    nemo_outis wrote:
    > "Sebastian G." <seppi@seppig.de> wrote in
    > news:612qppF1tk96tU4@mid.dfncis.de:
    >
    >> Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>> Are you usually this thick? Yes, even though you have a
    >>>> whole-disk encryption program you can choose not to encrypt some
    >>>> partitions - or any of them for that matter. However, choosing
    >>>> not to use the program's capability for whole-disk encryption
    >>>> doesn't make it one whit less a whole-disk encryption program.
    >>> Problem is, with Truecrypt you don't have that choice.

    >>
    >> So then my fully encrypted harddisk with even an encrypted partition
    >> table is pure imagination?
    >>
    >>> Go ahead and try it. Encrypt an entire drive and see if you can
    >>> install an OS to it.

    >>
    >> Who cares for installing an OS? This drive only contains data, the OS
    >> is on another media.

    >
    >
    > Yep, Sebastian, you've got it entirely right.
    >
    > Yes, Truecrypt in addition to file-based and partition-based encrypted
    > storage, also supports device-based OTFE storage. The device-based
    > versions do not have a partition table and are essentially
    > "floppy/superfloppy-ish." Device-based encrypted storage is primarily
    > useful for floppy disks, USB pendrives, and such but the Truecrypt docs
    > say a HD can also be be used this way.
    >
    > Superfloppyish-based encrypted storage is only suitable for data storage,
    > not for a bootable Windows system. In fact, independent of any
    > encryption aspects, Windows has been deliberately crippled so it can NOT
    > boot/run from removable media such as superfloppies (Microsoft says it's
    > a licencing issue). (Some folks have crafted end-runs around this
    > limitation of Windows, using tricks such as RAM drives.)
    >
    > But all this is beside the point. With Truecrypt 5 one can now encrypt
    > *any and all partitions* on any drive, including the boot/system
    > partition. This is all that is needed for complete OTFE protected
    > storage for both the Windows system itself and all data on it.
    >
    > Regards,


    Thank you. Why is cryptography inhabited by such obnoxious anti-social
    twats?

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