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Thread: Flight 93 footage thats rarely seen

  1. #181
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    And your qualifications are?

    Before you ask - yep, I've got 'em. P. E., 41 years.

    You don't know what you're talking about.

  2. #182
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    Physical Education?

    What field of engineering? I can point you to a number of engineers/architects/physics people who say the WTC collapses don't add up.

  3. #183
    Imperial Impotentate brembo's Avatar
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    One thing I HAVE to addess. Your last statement(jz82).

    I admitted nothing. I stated something. When stuff falls it GOES FASTER over time. When you carry a rock up 100 stories and hold it out over the dge of the building that rock has potential energy. Let it fall one foot and it has kinetic energy and slightly less potential(which is relative, someone could dig a hole where it shoud land and change that quantity). Now for every foot that rock drops the kinetic enery values go UP at a GEOMETRIC rate. That's why the buildings turned to dust and registered on the richter scale. Drop 1 ton 1000 feet and see what happens, much less a fraking World Trade Center Tower.

    I'm done with with this crap.
    Tao_Jones Cult Member since 2004
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  4. #184
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    I don't care how you slice it, when something moving impacts something stationary, it will decrease in speed (in relation to resistance).

    Give me an example of where this isn't true.

  5. #185
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    Physical Education - now that's just lovely.

    My field of specialization is electrical. Most of my work has been in the mechanical field, however.

    To deal with a couple of points -

    Things move because of forces. After the buildings withstood the initial impact of the planes, the only force involved was gravity, straight down. They didn't fall over because there was nothing pushing them over. If they had been demolished by charges placed at the base, any assymetry in their placement could have caused the towers to topple. You should also note that large sections of the exterior columns stayed in place. The building was not knocked down from the base. It ain't rocket science - the fire weakened the steel and expelled the water from the concrete, converting it back to sinter. The joists sagged, the connections to the inner and outer columns failed in overload as the joists connections were pryed loose, and once enough floors had failed and their weight accumulated, down it came.

    Please show a little respect for those who died and not post this claptrap about conspiracies created in the minds of folks that are motivated by things other than dealing with the real issues of the calamity.

  6. #186
    Imperial Impotentate brembo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jz82
    I don't care how you slice it, when something moving impacts something stationary, it will decrease in speed (in relation to resistance).

    Give me an example of where this isn't true.
    So, you are telling me that if you drop a bowling ball thru layers of rice-paper it's gonna slow down the bowling ball? Yeah.

    That's a bit of an extreme example, but look at the masses and forces involved when 20+ stories of a superstructure cut loose on the floors below. Each succesful(for lack of better word) floor collapse adds to the crushing weight. Simple physics man, simple stuff. Why did it go straight down? It takes alot of force to sway the course of(again) a 20+ story chunk of hyper-big building. It started going down and not much you can conjure in your head could stop it. There was alot of energy released in that moment the steel support structure collapsed.

    Another thing, conspiracy theories are fun and all, but they reach a point the the finger pointing and blames takes away from the toll on humanity and peoples souls. It is a borderline mockery of the loss that occured that day and you'll find that making such allegations can deeply hurt people that were touched by this incident personally.
    Tao_Jones Cult Member since 2004
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  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Kip Patterson
    Please show a little respect for those who died and not post this claptrap about conspiracies created in the minds of folks that are motivated by things other than dealing with the real issues of the calamity.

    Thank you well said

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by brembo
    Another thing, conspiracy theories are fun and all, but they reach a point the the finger pointing and blames takes away from the toll on humanity and peoples souls. It is a borderline mockery of the loss that occured that day and you'll find that making such allegations can deeply hurt people that were touched by this incident personally.
    Also very well said

  9. #189
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    I never said the buildings collapsed from their base, or are you referring to my WTC7 comments?

    Yes, asymmetry in the placement of explosives would cause the towers to topple. Because the damage/fires were asymmetric in themselves, we can expect the same result.

    Matthys Levy and NIST both moved away from the notion of floor collapse, you gotta do a better job of keeping up with the official story. The floors did not drag the supports down.

    So, you are telling me that if you drop a bowling ball thru layers of rice-paper it's gonna slow down the bowling ball? Yeah.
    Yes, in exact relation to how much resistance the paper provides. If it's minimal, then obviously the effect would be minimal, but it would fall slightly slower than if the rice paper wasn't there.

    Obviously the WTC wasn't rice paper, we can deduce that it would provide substantial resistance because it supported those loads for 30 years.

  10. #190
    Imperial Impotentate brembo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jz82
    I never said the buildings collapsed from their base, or are you referring to my WTC7 comments?

    Yes, asymmetry in the placement of explosives would cause the towers to topple. Because the damage/fires were asymmetric in themselves, we can expect the same result.

    Matthys Levy and NIST both moved away from the notion of floor collapse, you gotta do a better job of keeping up with the official story. The floors did not drag the supports down.



    Yes, in exact relation to how much resistance the paper provides. If it's minimal, then obviously the effect would be minimal, but it would fall slightly slower than if the rice paper wasn't there.

    Obviously the WTC wasn't rice paper, we can deduce that it would provide substantial resistance because it supported those loads for 30 years.
    Dammit, you are making me mad now.

    F=MA. Know it, learn it. Study it. Until you can see why the OMG THE BUILDING ACCELERATED while collapsing and NOT attribute the phenomenon to some wacked out governmental black-ops I will not reply. You are spouting ignorance. My model will stand up to the scrutiney of all the professors and scientists you don't see screaming for thier 15 minutes. Hello ignore list.
    Tao_Jones Cult Member since 2004
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  11. #191
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    Another thing, how is it disrespectful to those who died? Does it make their deaths any less important? Does it diminish them as human beings? Proposing another theory on why the buildings collapses does nothing to insult them, to say otherwise is just ****ing stupid.

  12. #192
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    The only example you could provide me was a bowling ball and rice paper.

    In extreme cases, yes, a moving object can accelerate through a stationary object, but it's still SLOWER than it otherwise would be. I knew you'd probably give me such an example (because sane examples don't apply), that's why I said "in relation to resistance".

  13. #193
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    http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-6C.pdf

    Page 5:

    "Truss/wall disconnections occurred by the trusses walking off their seats after failure of all horizontal connections between the floor and the exterior wall, or by vertical shear failure of the truss seat, as its capacity was reduced by heat."

    What educational background do you have to understand this and the other issues you are raising?

  14. #194
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    Not that it requires a certain educational background to understand it, but obviously physics classes and working with modelling software gives me some applicable experience.

    http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/nist/

  15. #195
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    It ain't rocket science - the fire weakened the steel and expelled the water from the concrete, converting it back to sinter. The joists sagged, the connections to the inner and outer columns failed in overload as the joists connections were pryed loose, and once enough floors had failed and their weight accumulated, down it came.
    NIST's Amazing Column Failure Theory

    The truss failure theory was in vogue in 2002, having won the big PBS and Discovery Channel endorsements, and it eclipsed early column failure advocates. But now in 2005 the column failure theory is back, with a new advocate (NIST) sporting a $20 million budget and computer models galore.

    Whereas FEMA's truss failure theory blamed the failure of column truss supports (dubbed "angle clips" by Professor Eagar) for the collapses, NIST's column failure theory blames their persistence, stating that they pulled the columns inward -- the first step in the contagious spread of "column instability."
    If the reason for collapse is so logical in your mind, why do they keep changing their minds? Why can't FEMA and NIST agree? I don't mean to suggest everyone within FEMA and NIST is corrupt, but clearly they're working within narrow confines for the reason of collapse. There's another scenario that fits, but people don't like where it leads.

    The results were a simulation of the structural deterioration of each tower from the time of aircraft impact to the time at which the building became unstable, i.e., was poised for collapse. (p 144/194)
    Hardly a global analysis.
    Last edited by jz82; 05-09-06 at 12:50 AM.

  16. #196
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    Bump

  17. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burke View Post
    Bump
    lol
    Every normal man must be tempted at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
    I often wonder if the voices in my head ever get frustrated because I'm just too damn lazy to climb that clock tower.
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  18. #198
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    bump* for ROSIE......
    "A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer."

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  20. #200
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    I have lots of video, poped in a video and just started recording the random news channels, just to have for history purposes and perhaps to show my kids some day or my grandchildren... havent watched it since as I dont want to go through the emotions of that again still...
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