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Thread: Why we should cut money on education

  1. #1

    Why we should cut money on education

    http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/09....ap/index.html


    Maybe if we spend less they will do better...we through more money at it, and it not always about money

  2. #2
    Senior Member Blisster's Avatar
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    Re: Why we should cut money on education

    Originally posted by Ghosthunter
    http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/09....ap/index.html


    Maybe if we spend less they will do better...we through more money at it, and it not always about money
    So who would you ultimately blame for the poor conditions in public schools and mis-management of funds recieved? Where, in fact, does the buck stop?


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    A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.

  3. #3

    Re: Re: Why we should cut money on education

    Originally posted by Blisster
    So who would you ultimately blame for the poor conditions in public schools and mis-management of funds recieved? Where, in fact, does the buck stop?

    Too much govt


    that is why I am spending $330 a month and sending my daughter to a private christian school, while I was not too big of the christian part, I still think it will be much better then our public school system

  4. #4
    Army of one torsten's Avatar
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    Money isn't the problem.... though cutting it won't solve anything either.
    My first solutions:

    1.) Totally eliminate PC in education.
    2.) Dramatically raise expectations of performance from students who are currently in lower level classes. There are NOT that many dummies in the gene pool.
    3.) Create separate schools for students who cause problems (violence, intimidation). Schools should be as safe as any corporate environment.
    4.) Eliminate all arbitrary pointless rules that are more about symbolism than substance.
    5.) Equalize funding for schools/districts

  5. #5
    Originally posted by torsten
    Money isn't the problem.... though cutting it won't solve anything either.
    My first solutions:

    1.) Totally eliminate PC.
    2.) Dramatically raise expectations of performance from students who are currently in lower level classes. There are NOT that many dummies in the gene pool.
    3.) Create separate schools for students who cause problems (violence, intimidation). Schools should be as safe as any corporate environment.
    4.) Eliminate all arbitrary pointless rules that are more about symbolism than substance.
    5.) Equalize funding for schools/districts

    I agree with most of above

    but what I meant is throwing more money at it wont solve the issues, which is waht democrats always bring up, that republicans dont spend enough on education and we spend too much on the war in iraq

  6. #6
    Army of one torsten's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Ghosthunter
    I agree with most of above

    but what I meant is throwing more money at it wont solve the issues, which is waht democrats always bring up, that republicans dont spend enough on education and we spend too much on the war in iraq
    Well for once I agree more with the Republican side of something. Trouble is, Republicans wouldn't mind if public education were totally destroyed. There are 2 extremes: Democrats wanting to preserve the current system (including all its problems) at all costs, and Republicans wanting to scrap it rather than fix it. I like the idea of a national commitment to good public education, so I'm more in line with Democrats on that, but it's broken and needs lots of serious restructuring.

  7. #7
    Elite Member mountainman's Avatar
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    As far as the article goes, those numbers are a complete farse and do not say anything. Spending is low in Mexico because stuff is cheap. Spending is high in Scandanavia because stuff is more expensive. I've been to both for more than 2 months each.

    As for the testing of USA students vs. other countries... that is a farse too. The USA tests every student including mentally handicapped and so forth. Schools in other countries have low ages where students can drop out and they don't test all schools... only the "upper levels".

    Every one of these articles are full of **** and should be treated as such. Flush it down the ****ing toilet and forget about it.



    As far as spending more or less on education, I'll let you guys debate this. LOL Should be interesting.

  8. #8
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    Hieracy, Hieracy, Mountianman is a witch

    He floats if you throw him in water.....he must be burned at the stake......

    witch, witch





    There, I feel better now

  9. #9
    Second Most EVIL YARDofSTUF's Avatar
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    we need teachers that make the classes interesting and we need the schools to let and help these teachers do that, and support them through it!

  10. #10
    Moderator YeOldeStonecat's Avatar
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    I agree with what Mountainman said...comparing cost per student is tough, as the costs of "stuff" in each region is much different.

    YoS also has a point which is something I totally agree with...I remember the teachers that made learning interesting, and I remember the subject I had hoped to get into...and the teachers made it simply a turn off.

    Question is....how do you get/maintain good teachers?
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  11. #11
    Elite Member mountainman's Avatar
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    Originally posted by YeOldeStonecat
    Question is....how do you get/maintain good teachers?
    Same way you do in ANY other business... treat them good and offer them enough to pull them away from other things that will provide a better life.

    Too bad the republicans don't/won't understand that.

  12. #12
    ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ ♫♪ downhill's Avatar
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    Re: Why we should cut money on education

    Originally posted by Ghosthunter
    http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/09....ap/index.html


    Maybe if we spend less they will do better...we through more money at it, and it not always about money
    Actually, GH......I"m getting the feeling that with you...it's always about money...either taxes or domestic..doesn't matter....
    The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts, attitudes, and prejudices to be found only in the minds of men. For the record, prejudices can kill and suspicion can destroy and a thoughtless, frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all of its own for the children and the children yet unborn and the pity of it is that these things cannot be confined to the Twilight Zone.

  13. #13
    Elite Member mountainman's Avatar
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    I just want to find out how this equation works out in the real world with anything :

    less money = better output (quality and quantity)


    Economics 250 anyone ? John ? (Or is that thinking on the graduate course level ?)

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    Re: Why we should cut money on education

    Originally posted by Ghosthunter
    http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/09....ap/index.html


    Maybe if we spend less they will do better...we through more money at it, and it not always about money
    You are right, those old books, over crowded class rooms and crumbling buildings will do just fine. The one immediate place for increased effiency is to have school as a full day, 8 to 5. It would reduce daycare, permit assisted study hall for completion of "homework" and help ensure that the students are kept out of trouble.

    If there is a gross ineffiency, it is with the hierchy. Education board members earn ridiculous sums of money for redundant work.

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    I want to learn more and more to see as beautiful what is necessary in things; then I shall be one of those who make things beautiful. Amor fati: let that be my love henceforth! I do not want to wage war against what is ugly. I do not want to accuse; I do not even want to accuse those who accuse. Looking away shall be my only negation. And all in all and on the whole: some day I wish to be only a Yes-sayer.

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    Originally posted by torsten
    Money isn't the problem.... though cutting it won't solve anything either.
    My first solutions:

    1.) Totally eliminate PC in education.
    Your personal vendetta. Lord forgive us if children should learn to be mannered.

    2.) Dramatically raise expectations of performance from students who are currently in lower level classes. There are NOT that many dummies in the gene pool.


    I am afraid that there are. Stratification already exists for the students. With the pressure for higher test scores, schools are trying to dump marginal students.

    3.) Create separate schools for students who cause problems (violence, intimidation). Schools should be as safe as any corporate environment.


    I would have to agree.

    4.) Eliminate all arbitrary pointless rules that are more about symbolism than substance.


    You would have to elaborate. Many rules which seem pointless actually are meant to teach regimen.

    5.) Equalize funding for schools/districts
    Since the school monies are typically derived from local property tax, I would have to ask you if you thought it was correct for those who are paying more money to be allowed to have better schools? You already know my thoughts. You might be surprised to learn that many states already move monies to assist needing schools.

    shant,
    david
    I want to learn more and more to see as beautiful what is necessary in things; then I shall be one of those who make things beautiful. Amor fati: let that be my love henceforth! I do not want to wage war against what is ugly. I do not want to accuse; I do not even want to accuse those who accuse. Looking away shall be my only negation. And all in all and on the whole: some day I wish to be only a Yes-sayer.

  16. #16

    Re: Re: Why we should cut money on education

    Originally posted by downhill
    Actually, GH......I"m getting the feeling that with you...it's always about money...either taxes or domestic..doesn't matter....

    Ok let me explain since I really did not explain it well enough on what I think is wrong with education system and why we should not be spending anymore money.

    Now remember I am basing this on the NY Education system, becuase that is what I know, so things can be different around the country.


    The porblem with throwing more money at the system wont fix a single dime. The education system is a big black hole, the more you throw at it, the more it will gladly eat it up but you wont see any return out of it. The reasons being is there are too many people in the system that are not being accounted for what happens to the money.

    Do I think that kids should have old ripped books and buildings falling apart? Of course not, but the problem is no matter how mcuh money you throw at it, they say it is not neough they need more but never really fix the important issues.


    The other issue is getting higher quality teachers.

    Now teachers in NYC make a decent salary, some make way over 100K, but they just dont care or are not really great teachers in the first place.

    The other issue is unless parents take an active interest it dont matter how much money is thrown at the system. This is a problem with our society today, people make babies but never take responsibilty for when they are growing up, they think they are all cute when they are a baby but get bored of the idea after a few years.


    Last we need to get rid of the polictical correctness that goes in our schools today. We need to make kids workd harder and feel like they have accomplished not just let tehm move on the next grade even if they dont meet up to the standards

  17. #17
    Elite Member TonyT's Avatar
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    A good solution would be to pay teachers a base salary and award them based upon their production stats. And use a sliding scale to compensate for 'bright student vs dull student groups'.

    Teachers expect a certain wage, whether or niot anybody learns anything at all. This is incorrect perspective to have. If I do a job for someone and my product is shabby or poor, then I do not get paid by the customer, therefore I strive to get good products.

    I say make the schools accountable and responsible for their performance rather than let them blame poor stats on bulls**t stuff like 'our students have learning disoprders' or 'mostly poverty students' or other excuses.

    Have teachers 'roll up their sleeves' and actually do some hard work UNTIL the current Edu downward trend is reversed completely. It took almost a hundred years for this trend to slide down, but it does not have to take another hundred to reverse it. The major downward spiral began in early sixties thanks to Kennedy's psychiatric based Edu programs.
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  18. #18
    Moderator Roody's Avatar
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    Sounds like a good idea TonyT, but its a difficult sell. Any person campaigning on that will have grief from teacher's unions, and political parties will exploit that to death. Sad to say, politics would definitely hurt an idea like this.

  19. #19
    Elite Member mountainman's Avatar
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    As a teacher, I don't agree with TonyT's idea at ALL because you are basing my pay on the students' will to work and/or learn. A teacher cannot control what the students do.

    Also, how would you measure this "output quality" of teaching based on the things I wrote above ? If you have a good idea for this, it may be worth it. But if you base it on grades or other things like that, it would be an extremely bad idea no matter how you sliced it.

  20. #20
    Senior Member tao_jones's Avatar
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    Originally posted by torsten
    1.) Totally eliminate PC in education.
    2.) Dramatically raise expectations of performance from students who are currently in lower level classes. There are NOT that many dummies in the gene pool.
    3.) Create separate schools for students who cause problems (violence, intimidation). Schools should be as safe as any corporate environment.
    4.) Eliminate all arbitrary pointless rules that are more about symbolism than substance.
    5.) Equalize funding for schools/districts
    You left off...
    6.) "We need the toss salad man in schools"....Chris Rock

    teacher - "hey little jimmy you got a d in class you know what youve got to do now"
    student - "no please im goona learn to read"

    Stupidity is also a gift of God, but one mustn't misuse it. - JP II

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