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bertanis@gmail.com
04-21-08, 06:45 AM
Hello,

My group will be trying to deploy a large area wi-fi network in a
computer conference. We are foreseeing a two problems I'd like this
group comments on:

1 - Our set-up will cover the hole place using 802.11n on "fat" access
points (we have no thin APs). That is in place and already work now.
We are concearned with the fact that each AP have to be configured "on-
site"... If we have strong reasons, we may change that.

2 - People will be allowed to bring their own APs. Our major concearn
here is that these APs may interfere with ours (or with each other).
ITOH, we wouldn't like to forbid people to bring their own APs. Is
there a middle-ground? Maybe mesh networks?

TIA

Bertanis

Jeff Liebermann
04-21-08, 11:03 AM
On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 04:45:30 -0700 (PDT), bertanis@gmail.com wrote:

>My group will be trying to deploy a large area wi-fi network in a
>computer conference. We are foreseeing a two problems I'd like this
>group comments on:

How large? How many clients? What conference?

>1 - Our set-up will cover the hole place using 802.11n on "fat" access
>points (we have no thin APs). That is in place and already work now.

What is a "fat" or "thin" AP? A new buzzword. Googling...
<http://ezinearticles.com/?Wireless-Access-Points:-Thin-vs-Fat&id=260040>
Oh, it's an "intelligent" access point versus a "stupid" access point
running on a wireless switch. Got it. Most wireless AP's are "fat".

I think you'll get better answers if you disclose the manufactory and
model numbers of your existing 802.11n hardware.

>We are concearned with the fact that each AP have to be configured "on-
>site"... If we have strong reasons, we may change that.

Huh? I pre-configure access points all the time in advance. Many
access points have DHCP clients built in. If there's a router with a
DHCP server on site, you can pre-configure the assigned IP addresses
in the router to match the IP layout. All you need to know is the MAC
address of each access point (printed on the serial number sticker).

If it's a trade show network, where you often don't have access to the
main router, bring your own DHCP server configured for delivering IP's
to only your own access points.

If you don't have time for that, just setup the IP's on any Class C IP
block that is *NOT* used by the conference. You don't need the IP's
for anything other than configuration, and with your AP's already
pre-configured, you probably won't even need those. (Note that AP's
are wireless bridges that work on ISO Layer 2. They don't know
anything about IP addresses except for configuration).

>2 - People will be allowed to bring their own APs.

Yep. That's the way it's usually done.

You'll find that the small show networks tend to use obscure IP blocks
specifically designed to avoid clueless vendors that arrive with their
AP's and wireless routers configured with duplicated IP addresses or
totally misconfigured. The convention or trade show usually has
printed or posted guidelines for show network setup.

In addition, many larger shows use VLAN's to isolate vendors. Do
whatever you want. You won't see the neighbors stuff on the ethernet.

>Our major concearn
>here is that these APs may interfere with ours (or with each other).
>ITOH, we wouldn't like to forbid people to bring their own APs.

Again, Access Points "bridge" (MAC layer). They do not "route" (IP
layer). If you configure your AP's for some obscure RFC-1918 IP
block, then the odds are slim that you're going to get clobbered by
another vendor.

>Is
>there a middle-ground? Maybe mesh networks?

Perhaps it might be a good idea to ask the convention operators for a
clue as to how they have their network setup?

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

DTC
04-21-08, 11:12 AM
bertanis@gmail.com wrote:
> My group will be trying to deploy a large area wi-fi network

Howe large is "large? Size of an indoor football stadium?

> 1 - Our set-up will cover the hole place using 802.11n on "fat" access
> points (we have no thin APs).

Never heard of that. Can you elaborate on what a fat and thin AP is?

> 2 - People will be allowed to bring their own APs. Our major concearn
> here is that these APs may interfere with ours (or with each other).
> ITOH, we wouldn't like to forbid people to bring their own APs. Is
> there a middle-ground? Maybe mesh networks?

How are the visiting APs going even going to connect to the wired
network?

Mesh with mixed models of AP? Are you prepared to make this a term
project?

ps56k
04-21-08, 11:13 AM
just an interesting read from Network World
about wireless at the super bowl
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/012508-nfl-radio-cops.html
and
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/012208-super-bowl.html

ps56k
04-21-08, 11:34 AM
there are other good replies,
but basically - we all need more of your details....

bertanis@gmail.com wrote:
> Hello,
>
> My group will be trying to deploy a large area wi-fi network in a
> computer conference. We are foreseeing a two problems I'd like this
> group comments on:

is this like a trade show arena,
or more like lots of breakout rooms for small working groups ?
ie - one large indoor/outdoor arena,
or trying to cover lots of little rooms ?

> 1 - Our set-up will cover the hole place using 802.11n on "fat" access
> points (we have no thin APs). That is in place and already work now.
> We are concearned with the fact that each AP have to be configured
> "on- site"... If we have strong reasons, we may change that.

802.11n - working - is it also to support b/g ?
"fat" are standalone devices vs the "thin" which go back to central
controller.
ok - which specific devices did you already deploy ?

How can it be "in place now", and yet, "have to be configured" ?
Do you mean, you have already installed a few AP's,
but will be installing a lot more to support your conference ?

As Jeff mentioned, the AP is merely a wireless bridge and knows nothing
about IP,
except for the required admin access & config... unless it is more than an
AP ?
Where and how will the users get their DHCP IP addresses ?
How many user connections are you expecting ? ie - more than 250 ?

> 2 - People will be allowed to bring their own APs. Our major concearn
> here is that these APs may interfere with ours (or with each other).
> ITOH, we wouldn't like to forbid people to bring their own APs. Is
> there a middle-ground? Maybe mesh networks?

If they bring their own AP's - how do they connect for Internet access ?
How will they be supported by you, controlled, troubleshooting,
and what about any security issues - access to your local internal network,
etc ?

Jeff Liebermann
04-21-08, 05:30 PM
On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:13:30 GMT, "ps56k"
<pschuman_no_spam_me@interserv.com> wrote:

>just an interesting read from Network World
>about wireless at the super bowl
>http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/012508-nfl-radio-cops.html
>and
>http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/012208-super-bowl.html

Yep. Interesting. There's nothing like having the TV crew show up
with a 10watt (yep, that's 10,000 milliwatts) analog TV transmitter
and wipe out everything on 2.4GHz. Even without the TV crew, there
are plenty of fans with wireless 2.4GHz TV cameras linked to DVR's in
their campers in the parking lot. Extra credit to the wackos that
setup 2.4GHz cordless phone to cellular plus power amplifiers in their
cards, to insure maximum havoc. I'll pretend not to mention the
bootleg video feeds on previously unused TV channels.

One of my customers went to the local Costco and bought a 2.4GHz
wireless TV security camera system. A few days later, he complained
that he was having problem connecting to his wireless router, also on
2.4GHz. When I came over and tried it, I couldn't even see the SSID
broadcasts, much less connect to the router. I turned off the
wireless video and everything returned to normal.

The surest sign of success is pollution. I guess RF is successful.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558