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View Full Version : Connection stalls until I do ping/traceroute in router



sdaws
03-26-08, 07:51 AM
Hi, so this just happened a couple mins ago and is an example of what
happens fairly frequently to me...

- browsing web using FireFox (Windows XP, latest SP)
- suddenly online music stops playing and current (& future) web page
loads no longer work (ie. wireless connection seems broken/dropped)
- I use FF to access my Linksys router home page (which works fine)
- go to Administration->Diagnostics, click on Traceroute button
- window takes several long seconds to come up but as soon as it does,
music starts again and web page loading works fine again

Other things *sometimes* work (like ipconfig /release & /renew) but
clicking Traceroute or Ping on the router page almost always fixes the
issue.

Is this definitely a router issue or could some other component be
contributing (Windows, wireless adapter, ISP)? If router, how to fix/
minimize? (settings? firmware?) Thanks!

ps. I've written about this previously a while ago here:
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windows.networking.wireless/browse_thread/thread/257d63174b49a76b/b162a537078bfd6e

Bill Kearney
03-26-08, 08:12 AM
Disable power management on the network interface in the computer. It's
probably losing connection when it tries to idle the port.

sdaws
03-26-08, 09:44 AM
On Mar 26, 6:12 am, "Bill Kearney" <wkearne...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Disable power management on the network interface in the computer. It's
> probably losing connection when it tries to idle the port.

Thanks for the quick reply! That's probably causing some of my lost
connection issues so I'll definitely do that. I think the situation
earlier may have been different though since I could access the router
(wirelessly) no problem - it's just that sites/nodes beyond that
weren't accessible until bringing up the Traceroute dialog/window
somehow reset something.

Jeff Liebermann
03-26-08, 11:50 AM
On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 05:51:02 -0700 (PDT), sdaws <sdaws06@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Is this definitely a router issue or could some other component be
>contributing (Windows, wireless adapter, ISP)? If router, how to fix/
>minimize? (settings? firmware?) Thanks!

What is a Linksys "54G" router?
Do you have a real model number?
If yes, look on the serial number tag and include the hardware
revision number. (v1 thru v8).
What firmware version are you using? Look on the setup status page.

>ps. I've written about this previously a while ago here:
>http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windows.networking.wireless/browse_thread/thread/257d63174b49a76b/b162a537078bfd6e

Check the WAN "idle timeout" settings. Set it to zero. You might be
disconnecting from the ISP.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

sdaws
03-27-08, 07:05 AM
On Mar 26, 9:50 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 05:51:02 -0700 (PDT), sdaws <sdaw...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Is this definitely a router issue or could some other component be
> >contributing (Windows, wireless adapter, ISP)? If router, how to fix/
> >minimize? (settings? firmware?) Thanks!
>
> What is a Linksys "54G" router?
> Do you have a real model number?
> If yes, look on the serial number tag and include the hardware
> revision number. (v1 thru v8).
> What firmware version are you using? Look on the setup status page.
>
> >ps. I've written about this previously a while ago here:
> >http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windows.networking.wi...
>
> Check the WAN "idle timeout" settings. Set it to zero. You might be
> disconnecting from the ISP.
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for your reply.

Here are the details on the router:
http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Product_C2&childpagename=US%2FLayout&cid=1149562300349&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper&lid=0034939789B04

WRT45G v2.2
Firmware Version: v3.03.1, Oct. 18, 2004

I wasn't able to find the WAN "idle timeout" settings.

LR
03-27-08, 08:15 AM
sdaws wrote:
> On Mar 26, 9:50 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 05:51:02 -0700 (PDT), sdaws <sdaw...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Is this definitely a router issue or could some other component be
>>> contributing (Windows, wireless adapter, ISP)? If router, how to fix/
>>> minimize? (settings? firmware?) Thanks!
>>>
>> What is a Linksys "54G" router?
>> Do you have a real model number?
>> If yes, look on the serial number tag and include the hardware
>> revision number. (v1 thru v8).
>> What firmware version are you using? Look on the setup status page.
>>
>>
>>> ps. I've written about this previously a while ago here:
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windows.networking.wi...
>>>
>> Check the WAN "idle timeout" settings. Set it to zero. You might be
>> disconnecting from the ISP.
>>
>> --
>> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
>> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
>> Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
>> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
>>
>
> Hi Jeff,
>
> Thanks for your reply.
>
> Here are the details on the router:
> http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Product_C2&childpagename=US%2FLayout&cid=1149562300349&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper&lid=0034939789B04
>
> WRT45G v2.2
> Firmware Version: v3.03.1, Oct. 18, 2004
>
> I wasn't able to find the WAN "idle timeout" settings.
>
You are well behind on firmware as it is now on 4.21.1 1/30/2007

Idle time or keep alive does not show if you are using "Auto DHCP" or
"Static IP"
http://ui.linksys.com/files/WRT54G/v1-v4/4.20.7/Setup_PPPoE.htm

Jeff Liebermann
03-27-08, 08:21 AM
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 05:05:55 -0700 (PDT), sdaws <sdaws06@gmail.com>
wrote:

>WRT45G v2.2
>Firmware Version: v3.03.1, Oct. 18, 2004

Old version of the firmware. The current version for the v2.2 router
is 4.21.1. See:
<http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_CASupport_C2&childpagename=US%2FLayout&cid=1166859837401&packedargs=sku%3DWRT54G&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper&lid=3740137401B01&displaypage=download#versiondetail>
Download and install please.

>I wasn't able to find the WAN "idle timeout" settings.

You're right. No WAN "timeout" or "idle timeout" setting for DHCP or
Static connections:
<http://ui.linksys.com/files/WRT54G/v1-v4/3.01.3/Setup-DHCP.htm>
However, I made a guess(tm) that you have a PPPoE setup, which does
have a "Connect on Demand: Max Idle Time". See:
<http://ui.linksys.com/files/WRT54G/v1-v4/3.01.3/Setup-PPPoE.htm>

It's common to have the DSL modem do the PPPoE login, where the DSL
modem does the PPPoE login. It will also have an "idle timeout" type
of setting.

I looked at your previously referenced article yesterday, but forgot
the details of your setup. Today, Google complains that it can't
display the article:
<http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windows.networking.wireless/browse_thread/thread/257d63174b49a76b/b162a537078bfd6e>
"An error occurred while processing your request..."
I'm not even sure you have DSL, cable, satellite, etc. Could you
please describe your setup again? Makers, models, versions, and such?

Also, simply complaining that you are effectively disconnected doesn't
tell anyone at which point you are getting disconnected. It could be
between your computah and the WRT54G v2.2. It could be the router
timing out. It could be the DSL modem timing out. It could be your
ISP "rotating" IP addresses or rebooting their routers. It could be
between your ISP and their connection to the interknot.

When it happens again, get ready to use ping to see where it's broken.
I'll assume that your WRT54g v2.2 is at 192.168.1.1. Go to the
"status" page in the WRT54G and write down the gateway IP address of
your ISP. Then, try this with a working system to see how the results
look. Then, unplug something and watch it fail.

For Windoze:
Start -> run -> cmd <Enter>
ping 192.168.1.1 (ping the router)
If that works, try:
ping gateway_ip_address_of_ISP (ping the ISP)
If that works, try:
ping www.google.com (check if DNS is working)
and
ping xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx (IP address of anything on the internet)

The point where pings fail will give you a clue as to WHERE you are
being disconnected (and possibly why). If this is a common problem,
you might wanna do the above continuously. For that, I use "FreePing"
at:
<http://www.tools4ever.com/products/free/freeping/>
I setup the various IP addresses as previously itemized and let it
run. However, pinging too often is impolite, so I set the ping
interval for 5 minutes for each system. This also acts as a keep
alive and prevents idle out timers from disconnecting.

Also, if the updated firmware doesn't fix the problem, you might want
to try one of the alternative firmware releases, such as DD-WRT.
<http://www.dd-wrt.com>
I'm running v24 RC6.2 on literally all my similar routers, without
good success. However, it is a much more complex setup and
configuration.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

LR
03-27-08, 08:25 AM
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> Also, if the updated firmware doesn't fix the problem, you might want
> to try one of the alternative firmware releases, such as DD-WRT.
> <http://www.dd-wrt.com>
> I'm running v24 RC6.2 on literally all my similar routers, without
> good success.
Did you mean "with good success"?
> However, it is a much more complex setup and
> configuration.
>
>

Jeff Liebermann
03-27-08, 08:44 AM
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:25:59 +0000, LR <lrme@privacy.net> wrote:

>Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> Also, if the updated firmware doesn't fix the problem, you might want
>> to try one of the alternative firmware releases, such as DD-WRT.
>> <http://www.dd-wrt.com>
>> I'm running v24 RC6.2 on literally all my similar routers, without
>> good success.

>Did you mean "with good success"?

Groan. Yes, DD-WRT works for me. One of my friends ended up with a
WRT54G v5 router. Using the stock firmware, it was hanging and doing
strange things every few hours. Uptime was maybe a day, at best. I've
had no luck with DD-WRT fixing v5 and v6 routers in the past, but I
thought it wouldn't hurt to try again. I just checked his splash
page, which shows 22 days uptime. Nice.

Looks like we came to about the same conclusions on the router
problem. It's amazing what supplying a few numbers can do.

Anyways, it's 6:30AM here. I've had about 3 hours of snooze. Brain
is only semi-functional, at best. I just wrote a long reply to
another question, and fortunately didn't post it. It was all wrong.
Sun is starting to come up. Maybe I should go back to sleep.....

>> However, it is a much more complex setup and
>> configuration.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

sdaws
03-28-08, 04:16 AM
On Mar 27, 6:21 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 05:05:55 -0700 (PDT), sdaws <sdaw...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >WRT45G v2.2
> >Firmware Version: v3.03.1, Oct. 18, 2004
>
> Old version of the firmware. The current version for the v2.2 router
> is 4.21.1. See:
> <http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_CASupport_C2&childpagena...>
> Download and install please.
>
> >I wasn't able to find the WAN "idle timeout" settings.
>
> You're right. No WAN "timeout" or "idle timeout" setting for DHCP or
> Static connections:
> <http://ui.linksys.com/files/WRT54G/v1-v4/3.01.3/Setup-DHCP.htm>
> However, I made a guess(tm) that you have a PPPoE setup, which does
> have a "Connect on Demand: Max Idle Time". See:
> <http://ui.linksys.com/files/WRT54G/v1-v4/3.01.3/Setup-PPPoE.htm>
>
> It's common to have the DSL modem do the PPPoE login, where the DSL
> modem does the PPPoE login. It will also have an "idle timeout" type
> of setting.
>
> I looked at your previously referenced article yesterday, but forgot
> the details of your setup. Today, Google complains that it can't
> display the article:
> <http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windows.networking.wi...>
> "An error occurred while processing your request..."
> I'm not even sure you have DSL, cable, satellite, etc. Could you
> please describe your setup again? Makers, models, versions, and such?
>
> Also, simply complaining that you are effectively disconnected doesn't
> tell anyone at which point you are getting disconnected. It could be
> between your computah and the WRT54G v2.2. It could be the router
> timing out. It could be the DSL modem timing out. It could be your
> ISP "rotating" IP addresses or rebooting their routers. It could be
> between your ISP and their connection to the interknot.
>
> When it happens again, get ready to use ping to see where it's broken.
> I'll assume that your WRT54g v2.2 is at 192.168.1.1. Go to the
> "status" page in the WRT54G and write down the gateway IP address of
> your ISP. Then, try this with a working system to see how the results
> look. Then, unplug something and watch it fail.
>
> For Windoze:
> Start -> run -> cmd <Enter>
> ping 192.168.1.1 (ping the router)
> If that works, try:
> ping gateway_ip_address_of_ISP (ping the ISP)
> If that works, try:
> pingwww.google.com (check if DNS is working)
> and
> ping xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx (IP address of anything on the internet)
>
> The point where pings fail will give you a clue as to WHERE you are
> being disconnected (and possibly why). If this is a common problem,
> you might wanna do the above continuously. For that, I use "FreePing"
> at:
> <http://www.tools4ever.com/products/free/freeping/>
> I setup the various IP addresses as previously itemized and let it
> run. However, pinging too often is impolite, so I set the ping
> interval for 5 minutes for each system. This also acts as a keep
> alive and prevents idle out timers from disconnecting.
>
> Also, if the updated firmware doesn't fix the problem, you might want
> to try one of the alternative firmware releases, such as DD-WRT.
> <http://www.dd-wrt.com>
> I'm running v24 RC6.2 on literally all my similar routers, without
> good success. However, it is a much more complex setup and
> configuration.
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff, thanks again for your reply and the troubleshooting tips. I
don't know a lot about all this stuff but I did try to find out where
the connection was failing but it seems to switch around (either I
can't get to the router, or I can't get past it - maybe diff probs/
reasons) but mostly almost nothing works, or everything works - and
what makes things work changes each time (but usually bringing up the
traceroute/ping panel is one of the more likely things to fix it -
note that it never fails somewhere along the trace - either I can't
trace/ping at all, or trace works all the way to the destination -
somewhere just before the trace starts or part way during the trace,
everything else starts working again). Sometimes ipconfig /release & /
renew works (either to get to the router if I couldn't before; or to
get to the rest of the 'net).

Here's what happened earlier tonight (this time with my newer notebook
which has never previously had these types of issues)...

- notebook was on, (wireless) net connection working fine
- left for a while, came back (only screen was in powersave mode)
- 'net not working, nothing would fix it (couldn't get to router)
- unplugged router and modem; plugged both back in
- now could access router (192.168.1.1) but nothing past that
- went to Status page; tried DHCP release & renew (still broken)
- went to diagnostic page; clicked traceroute button -> as window
comes up, everything starts working again

Here are the details you requested...

- DSL (AT&T/Yahoo) [I live near you, btw - our cities have the same
first word :)]
- older notebook (Dell Insp 8200, XP, AirLink+ usb adapter)
- newer notebook (Dell Insp1521, Vista, Dell builtin wireless)
- you have the router details; anything else?

I've been hesitant to do a firmware upgrade because I've heard some
people have had more problems after doing that (and it can't be backed
out?) so only do it if you KNOW that the upgrade fixes a problem you
have. But since I AM having issues w/ the router, I'll go ahead and
do it.

Jeff Liebermann
03-28-08, 07:02 AM
On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 02:16:15 -0700 (PDT), sdaws <sdaws06@gmail.com>
wrote:

>> Old version of the firmware. The current version for the v2.2 router
>> is 4.21.1. See:
>> <http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_CASupport_C2&childpagena...>
>> Download and install please.

Did you install the latest firmware?

>I did try to find out where
>the connection was failing but it seems to switch around (either I
>can't get to the router, or I can't get past it - maybe diff probs/
>reasons) but mostly almost nothing works, or everything works - and
>what makes things work changes each time (but usually bringing up the
>traceroute/ping panel is one of the more likely things to fix it -

Huh? What "panel"? Are you bringing up the diagnostic page in the
Linksys WRT54G router? If so, that's NOT where you run ping. See my
previous instructions.

>note that it never fails somewhere along the trace - either I can't
>trace/ping at all, or trace works all the way to the destination -

Please do NOT use traceroute (err... tracert) for troubleshooting at
this time. Just use ping. Keep it simple.

>somewhere just before the trace starts or part way during the trace,
>everything else starts working again). Sometimes ipconfig /release & /
>renew works (either to get to the router if I couldn't before; or to
>get to the rest of the 'net).

OK, let's really get down to basics. When it fails, can you ping the
router IP address? If you can't do that, then there's something wrong
with the wireless connection between you and the router. It might be
the ancient router firmware, interference from the neighbors,
defective laptop(s), driver issues on the laptop(s), or aliens from
outer space trying to communicate on the same channels. You *MAY*
have other problems, but solve this one first or it will mask out the
others. Update the firmware. Reset the router to defaults and put
all the settings back manually (to avoid trash saved in the config
file). Try different RF channels (1, 6, or 11). Move the router away
from windows to avoid RF interference from outside. Play with
directional antennas to keep the RF inside the house. Use Netstumbler
to check coverage around the house.

>Here's what happened earlier tonight (this time with my newer notebook
>which has never previously had these types of issues)...
>
>- notebook was on, (wireless) net connection working fine
>- left for a while, came back (only screen was in powersave mode)
>- 'net not working, nothing would fix it (couldn't get to router)
>- unplugged router and modem; plugged both back in
>- now could access router (192.168.1.1) but nothing past that
>- went to Status page; tried DHCP release & renew (still broken)
>- went to diagnostic page; clicked traceroute button -> as window
>comes up, everything starts working again

I have a few guesses but first please update the firmware. I'm not
interested in troubleshooting ancient firmware versions.

Did you turn off the power management on the wireless client (as
someone else suggested)? Having the card power down (to save power)
when it goes into standby will cause a disconnect. That's normally
not a problem, but your ancient firmware is having a bad day trying to
reconnect.

Note that the sequence you itemized above, will also recover if you
just ping the router. Use:
ping -t 192.168.1.1
which will ping once per second until interrupted. All you need is
some traffic, any traffic, to kick start the wireless connection.

>Here are the details you requested...
>
>- DSL (AT&T/Yahoo) [I live near you, btw - our cities have the same
>first word :)]

Running NSLOOKUP on your IP, I get:
adsl-99-167-102-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net
which is Pleasanton. Well, you could be anywhere in the SF or
Monterey Bay area. Santa Rosa? Santa Claus? It's 5AM and I'm too
sleepy to think.

>- older notebook (Dell Insp 8200, XP, AirLink+ usb adapter)
>- newer notebook (Dell Insp1521, Vista, Dell builtin wireless)
>- you have the router details; anything else?

What manner of encryption are you using? WPA-PSK-TKIP, WPA2-PSK-AES,
WEP, or none? Do you have a unique SSID setup so that your clients
don't jump to the neighbors wireless?

What model DSL modem? If 5100 or 4200, do you have it set for NAT or
bridging? If NAT, do you have a timeout setup on the DSL modem? More
specifically, in which box did you setup the PBI/SBC/AT&T/Yahoo login
and password? (DSL modem or WRT54G).

>I've been hesitant to do a firmware upgrade because I've heard some
>people have had more problems after doing that (and it can't be backed
>out?) so only do it if you KNOW that the upgrade fixes a problem you
>have. But since I AM having issues w/ the router, I'll go ahead and
>do it.

Baloney. There have been problems going to alternative firmware.
However, it's fairly difficult to screw up the stock firmware updates.
Worst case, you get to learn how to use TFTP to recover the router.
Anyway, you can't possibly have more problems than you're currently
experiencing.

My guess(tm) is that you have multiple problems and that this mess
will need to be solved one link at a time. Start with the wireless
connection between you and the wireless router. Then, we'll pound on
the PBI/SBC/AT&T/Yahoo connection.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

News Reader
03-28-08, 09:56 AM
You have described instances when connections to Internet resources were
interrupted.

You have also described instances when you were unable to access the web
admin interface on the router.

Is the LAN IP address of your default gateway "unique"?

If it was not unique, and another host shared that address, the ARP
table on your system would map the gateway's IP address to the MAC
address of the gateway "some of the time", and map it to the MAC address
of the host sharing the IP address at "other times". This would result
in exactly the two symptoms described at the top of this post.

One scenario:

If you connected the LAN interface of your gateway router to the LAN
interface of another device which used the same default IP address for
its admin interface, this would happen. I resolved this very issue at a
mid-sized corporation. They connected the LAN interface of a Linksys
router (with integrated switch) to the network to give them local
expansion of their switched network under an employees desk.


Another scenario:
A host configured with the same IP address address as the gateway router.

If on a Windows system, you entered "arp -a" at the command prompt, you
would see the current ARP table. There will typically be an entry for
the default gateway's IP address. Take note of the MAC address
associated with it (write it down).

If there is no entry, ping the address. An ARP lookup will be performed
to resolve the IP into a MAC address, the result of which will be
entered into the ARP table. Return to the ARP table to view the the MAC
address (write it down).

You can clear the ARP table with "arp -d *".

View the ARP table, record the MAC, delete the table, ping the gateway
to initiate a new lookup, return to the table, record the MAC, delete
the table, ping the gateway to initiate a new lookup, return to the
table, record the MAC.....

You want to see that the MAC address associated with the default gateway
IP address is consistent (always the same). If you see any variation,
you have a second system sharing the IP address.

Take a look at any labels on the gateway that convey what the MAC
address of the LAN interface is (for comparison).

If your network is small you could also visit the configuration of each
and every device to confirm the assigned IP addresses.

It is best to maintain a list of all MAC addresses, and all static IP
addresses used on your network.

Best Regards,
News Reader

sdaws wrote:
> On Mar 27, 6:21 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 05:05:55 -0700 (PDT), sdaws <sdaw...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> WRT45G v2.2
>>> Firmware Version: v3.03.1, Oct. 18, 2004
>> Old version of the firmware. The current version for the v2.2 router
>> is 4.21.1. See:
>> <http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_CASupport_C2&childpagena...>
>> Download and install please.
>>
>>> I wasn't able to find the WAN "idle timeout" settings.
>> You're right. No WAN "timeout" or "idle timeout" setting for DHCP or
>> Static connections:
>> <http://ui.linksys.com/files/WRT54G/v1-v4/3.01.3/Setup-DHCP.htm>
>> However, I made a guess(tm) that you have a PPPoE setup, which does
>> have a "Connect on Demand: Max Idle Time". See:
>> <http://ui.linksys.com/files/WRT54G/v1-v4/3.01.3/Setup-PPPoE.htm>
>>
>> It's common to have the DSL modem do the PPPoE login, where the DSL
>> modem does the PPPoE login. It will also have an "idle timeout" type
>> of setting.
>>
>> I looked at your previously referenced article yesterday, but forgot
>> the details of your setup. Today, Google complains that it can't
>> display the article:
>> <http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windows.networking.wi...>
>> "An error occurred while processing your request..."
>> I'm not even sure you have DSL, cable, satellite, etc. Could you
>> please describe your setup again? Makers, models, versions, and such?
>>
>> Also, simply complaining that you are effectively disconnected doesn't
>> tell anyone at which point you are getting disconnected. It could be
>> between your computah and the WRT54G v2.2. It could be the router
>> timing out. It could be the DSL modem timing out. It could be your
>> ISP "rotating" IP addresses or rebooting their routers. It could be
>> between your ISP and their connection to the interknot.
>>
>> When it happens again, get ready to use ping to see where it's broken.
>> I'll assume that your WRT54g v2.2 is at 192.168.1.1. Go to the
>> "status" page in the WRT54G and write down the gateway IP address of
>> your ISP. Then, try this with a working system to see how the results
>> look. Then, unplug something and watch it fail.
>>
>> For Windoze:
>> Start -> run -> cmd <Enter>
>> ping 192.168.1.1 (ping the router)
>> If that works, try:
>> ping gateway_ip_address_of_ISP (ping the ISP)
>> If that works, try:
>> pingwww.google.com (check if DNS is working)
>> and
>> ping xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx (IP address of anything on the internet)
>>
>> The point where pings fail will give you a clue as to WHERE you are
>> being disconnected (and possibly why). If this is a common problem,
>> you might wanna do the above continuously. For that, I use "FreePing"
>> at:
>> <http://www.tools4ever.com/products/free/freeping/>
>> I setup the various IP addresses as previously itemized and let it
>> run. However, pinging too often is impolite, so I set the ping
>> interval for 5 minutes for each system. This also acts as a keep
>> alive and prevents idle out timers from disconnecting.
>>
>> Also, if the updated firmware doesn't fix the problem, you might want
>> to try one of the alternative firmware releases, such as DD-WRT.
>> <http://www.dd-wrt.com>
>> I'm running v24 RC6.2 on literally all my similar routers, without
>> good success. However, it is a much more complex setup and
>> configuration.
>>
>> --
>> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
>> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
>> Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
>> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
>
> Jeff, thanks again for your reply and the troubleshooting tips. I
> don't know a lot about all this stuff but I did try to find out where
> the connection was failing but it seems to switch around (either I
> can't get to the router, or I can't get past it - maybe diff probs/
> reasons) but mostly almost nothing works, or everything works - and
> what makes things work changes each time (but usually bringing up the
> traceroute/ping panel is one of the more likely things to fix it -
> note that it never fails somewhere along the trace - either I can't
> trace/ping at all, or trace works all the way to the destination -
> somewhere just before the trace starts or part way during the trace,
> everything else starts working again). Sometimes ipconfig /release & /
> renew works (either to get to the router if I couldn't before; or to
> get to the rest of the 'net).
>
> Here's what happened earlier tonight (this time with my newer notebook
> which has never previously had these types of issues)...
>
> - notebook was on, (wireless) net connection working fine
> - left for a while, came back (only screen was in powersave mode)
> - 'net not working, nothing would fix it (couldn't get to router)
> - unplugged router and modem; plugged both back in
> - now could access router (192.168.1.1) but nothing past that
> - went to Status page; tried DHCP release & renew (still broken)
> - went to diagnostic page; clicked traceroute button -> as window
> comes up, everything starts working again
>
> Here are the details you requested...
>
> - DSL (AT&T/Yahoo) [I live near you, btw - our cities have the same
> first word :)]
> - older notebook (Dell Insp 8200, XP, AirLink+ usb adapter)
> - newer notebook (Dell Insp1521, Vista, Dell builtin wireless)
> - you have the router details; anything else?
>
> I've been hesitant to do a firmware upgrade because I've heard some
> people have had more problems after doing that (and it can't be backed
> out?) so only do it if you KNOW that the upgrade fixes a problem you
> have. But since I AM having issues w/ the router, I'll go ahead and
> do it.

sdaws
04-09-08, 02:43 AM
Hi Jeff, sorry for the delay - busy with work. See answers below...

On Mar 28, 5:02 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 02:16:15 -0700 (PDT), sdaws <sdaw...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >> Old version of the firmware. The current version for the v2.2 router
> >> is 4.21.1. See:
> >> <http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_CASupport_C2&childpagena...>
> >> Download and install please.
>
> Did you install the latest firmware?

Yes, finally got the chance to do tonight.

> >I did try to find out where
> >the connection was failing but it seems to switch around (either I
> >can't get to the router, or I can't get past it - maybe diff probs/
> >reasons) but mostly almost nothing works, or everything works - and
> >what makes things work changes each time (but usually bringing up the
> >traceroute/ping panel is one of the more likely things to fix it -
>
> Huh? What "panel"? Are you bringing up the diagnostic page in the
> Linksys WRT54G router? If so, that's NOT where you run ping. See my
> previous instructions.

Yes, the router panel. But that's the thing. Ping (etc) wouldn't
work from the command line (some error about host not found or
something). But if I bring up the ping dialog panel from router,
things would suddenly work again. I don't even have to actually ping
anything!

> >note that it never fails somewhere along the trace - either I can't
> >trace/ping at all, or trace works all the way to the destination -
>
> Please do NOT use traceroute (err... tracert) for troubleshooting at
> this time. Just use ping. Keep it simple.

Ok, again - either cmdline ping (etc) work fine or they don't work at
all (ie. give an error before even trying to do what they are supposed
to do).

> >somewhere just before the trace starts or part way during the trace,
> >everything else starts working again). Sometimes ipconfig /release & /
> >renew works (either to get to the router if I couldn't before; or to
> >get to the rest of the 'net).
>
> OK, let's really get down to basics. When it fails, can you ping the
> router IP address? If you can't do that, then there's something wrong
> with the wireless connection between you and the router. It might be
> the ancient router firmware, interference from the neighbors,
> defective laptop(s), driver issues on the laptop(s), or aliens from
> outer space trying to communicate on the same channels. You *MAY*
> have other problems, but solve this one first or it will mask out the
> others. Update the firmware. Reset the router to defaults and put
> all the settings back manually (to avoid trash saved in the config
> file). Try different RF channels (1, 6, or 11). Move the router away
> from windows to avoid RF interference from outside. Play with
> directional antennas to keep the RF inside the house. Use Netstumbler
> to check coverage around the house.

This *sometimes* happens. Usually the problem is that I can get to
the router but not past it.

> >Here's what happened earlier tonight (this time with my newer notebook
> >which has never previously had these types of issues)...
>
> >- notebook was on, (wireless) net connection working fine
> >- left for a while, came back (only screen was in powersave mode)
> >- 'net not working, nothing would fix it (couldn't get to router)
> >- unplugged router and modem; plugged both back in
> >- now could access router (192.168.1.1) but nothing past that
> >- went to Status page; tried DHCP release & renew (still broken)
> >- went to diagnostic page; clicked traceroute button -> as window
> >comes up, everything starts working again
>
> I have a few guesses but first please update the firmware. I'm not
> interested in troubleshooting ancient firmware versions.

Done.

> Did you turn off the power management on the wireless client (as
> someone else suggested)? Having the card power down (to save power)
> when it goes into standby will cause a disconnect. That's normally
> not a problem, but your ancient firmware is having a bad day trying to
> reconnect.

This was the case with my old laptop - but does not happen with new
one.

> Note that the sequence you itemized above, will also recover if you
> just ping the router. Use:
> ping -t 192.168.1.1
> which will ping once per second until interrupted. All you need is
> some traffic, any traffic, to kick start the wireless connection.
>
> >Here are the details you requested...
>
> >- DSL (AT&T/Yahoo) [I live near you, btw - our cities have the same
> >first word :)]
>
> Running NSLOOKUP on your IP, I get:
> adsl-99-167-102-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net
> which is Pleasanton. Well, you could be anywhere in the SF or
> Monterey Bay area. Santa Rosa? Santa Claus? It's 5AM and I'm too
> sleepy to think.

Clara.

> >- older notebook (Dell Insp 8200, XP, AirLink+ usb adapter)
> >- newer notebook (Dell Insp1521, Vista, Dell builtin wireless)
> >- you have the router details; anything else?
>
> What manner of encryption are you using? WPA-PSK-TKIP, WPA2-PSK-AES,
> WEP, or none? Do you have a unique SSID setup so that your clients
> don't jump to the neighbors wireless?

First one. Yes.

> What model DSL modem? If 5100 or 4200, do you have it set for NAT or
> bridging? If NAT, do you have a timeout setup on the DSL modem? More
> specifically, in which box did you setup the PBI/SBC/AT&T/Yahoo login
> and password? (DSL modem or WRT54G).

Siemens SpeedStream 4100 B

> >I've been hesitant to do a firmware upgrade because I've heard some
> >people have had more problems after doing that (and it can't be backed
> >out?) so only do it if you KNOW that the upgrade fixes a problem you
> >have. But since I AM having issues w/ the router, I'll go ahead and
> >do it.
>
> Baloney. There have been problems going to alternative firmware.
> However, it's fairly difficult to screw up the stock firmware updates.
> Worst case, you get to learn how to use TFTP to recover the router.
> Anyway, you can't possibly have more problems than you're currently
> experiencing.
>
> My guess(tm) is that you have multiple problems and that this mess
> will need to be solved one link at a time. Start with the wireless
> connection between you and the wireless router. Then, we'll pound on
> the PBI/SBC/AT&T/Yahoo connection.

So here's what I did tonight...

- plug in ethernet cable
- start computer
- check internet connection... working fine (can access google.com in
FireFox)
- upgrade router firmware
- restart computer (unplug cable)
- can access router but not past that
(now Firmware Version: v4.21.1)
- network icon says... Access: Local Only

>ping yahoo.com
Ping request could not find host yahoo.com. Please check the name and
try again.

>tracert google.com
Unable to resolve target system name google.com.

- Router->Admin->Diag->ping microsoft.com

Unknown host

- Router->Admin->Diag->traceroute adobe.com

traceroute: unknown host adobe.com

- Network & Sharing Center has X between House icon and Internet icon

>ipconfig /all

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : sd06
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Wireless LAN adapter Wireless Network Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Dell Wireless 1505 Draft
802.11n WLAN Mini-Card
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : [del]
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : [del](Preferred)
IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.101(Preferred)
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Wednesday, April 09, 2008
12:07:46 AM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Friday, April 11, 2008 12:07:46
AM
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 167778686
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Broadcom 440x 10/100 Integrated
Controller
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : [del]
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 6:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-
Interface
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : [del]
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 7:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : isatap.{del}
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : [del]
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : [del](Preferred)
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Disabled

Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 9:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : isatap.{del}
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : [del]
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

-----

- so I then tried Router->Status-> Dhcp Release... Dhcp Renew

and things started working again. This has sometimes worked in the
past - sometimes not. ipconfig /release & /renew also sometimes
works, sometimes not. and on my old computer, if I stopped some WinXP
dns service, then that would sometimes fix things. ...etc...

Ok so if everyone has frequent random issues like this, then I'll just
deal with it. I just thought the one problem about bringing up the
ping or traceroute dialog panel on the router (but not actually
running either of those) fixing the connection would trigger something
with someone - it's the most common one for me. Hopefully it will be
resolved now with the firmware upgrade.

Thanks to "News Reader" for the reply too!