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View Full Version : Why Can't I run two DSL lines in the same CAT5E cable??



Tom
03-25-08, 08:29 PM
There are two DSL lines on my property and they both work fine but
each on each side of the yard.

I decided to run them together in a single CAT5E cable to my two DSL
modems using 4 wires of one DSL line and 4 wires for the other one.

One line works perfect until I connect the other 4 wires for the 2n
line then each DSL line dies! I can connect one or the other but not
both. I would like to know why?

Sure I can run two separate CAT5E cables and wire them to 568A or B
standards but would I dont see why I couldnt run each DSL line in the
same cable?

Thanks!
Thomas Redman
Los Angeles, CA

Jeff Liebermann
03-25-08, 10:06 PM
On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 18:29:27 -0700, Tom <hornyguy@yahoo.com> wrote:

This question has nothing to do with wireless.
You might get a better answer in a DSL related newsgroup.

>There are two DSL lines on my property and they both work fine but
>each on each side of the yard.
>
>I decided to run them together in a single CAT5E cable to my two DSL
>modems using 4 wires of one DSL line and 4 wires for the other one.
>
>One line works perfect until I connect the other 4 wires for the 2n
>line then each DSL line dies! I can connect one or the other but not
>both. I would like to know why?

Think about how the DSL lines run from the CO (central office) to your
MPOE (minimum point of entry) or demarc. You have at least 10,000 ft
of twisted pair, unshielded wire, in the same bundle, going between
the CO and your MPOE. Yet, you seem to be having a problem running
perhaps a few feet of wire between the MPOE and your DSL modems. The
telco can make it work over 10,000ft, and you can't over a few
additional feet. My guess(tm) is that you did something wrong with
the wiring, splitter, DSL filters, color code, terminations,
connectors, or whatever is between the MPOE and your DSL modems.

>Sure I can run two separate CAT5E cables and wire them to 568A or B
>standards but would I dont see why I couldnt run each DSL line in the
>same cable?

Duz it work when you run two seperate cables?

Incidentally, I suggest 568B color coding to avoid insanity. Most of
the patch cables come wired 568B (even though 568A is the official
standard).

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

P.Schuman
03-25-08, 10:31 PM
Tom wrote:
> There are two DSL lines on my property and they both work fine but
> each on each side of the yard.
>
> I decided to run them together in a single CAT5E cable to my two DSL
> modems using 4 wires of one DSL line and 4 wires for the other one.
>
clarify -
are these the raw DSL lines coming from the demarc ?
ie - there are just 2-wires -
with the high freq DSL signal riding on the same pair as your telco voice
line.

SO - I'm not exactly sure what "4 wires" you are talking about,
unless you just extended the usual blue + blu/wht and the org + org/wht, etc

Tom
03-25-08, 11:04 PM
On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 20:06:33 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 18:29:27 -0700, Tom <hornyguy@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>This question has nothing to do with wireless.
>You might get a better answer in a DSL related newsgroup.
>
>>There are two DSL lines on my property and they both work fine but
>>each on each side of the yard.
>>
>>I decided to run them together in a single CAT5E cable to my two DSL
>>modems using 4 wires of one DSL line and 4 wires for the other one.
>>
>>One line works perfect until I connect the other 4 wires for the 2n
>>line then each DSL line dies! I can connect one or the other but not
>>both. I would like to know why?
>
>Think about how the DSL lines run from the CO (central office) to your
>MPOE (minimum point of entry) or demarc. You have at least 10,000 ft
>of twisted pair, unshielded wire, in the same bundle, going between
>the CO and your MPOE. Yet, you seem to be having a problem running
>perhaps a few feet of wire between the MPOE and your DSL modems. The
>telco can make it work over 10,000ft, and you can't over a few
>additional feet. My guess(tm) is that you did something wrong with
>the wiring, splitter, DSL filters, color code, terminations,
>connectors, or whatever is between the MPOE and your DSL modems.
>
>>Sure I can run two separate CAT5E cables and wire them to 568A or B
>>standards but would I dont see why I couldnt run each DSL line in the
>>same cable?
>
>Duz it work when you run two seperate cables?
>
>Incidentally, I suggest 568B color coding to avoid insanity. Most of
>the patch cables come wired 568B (even though 568A is the official
>standard).


Exactly the telco runs over a thousand feet of twisted wire and I'm
only running 400 ft across my property and I have this problem.

I am going with two CAT5E cables as that solves the problem but
was just trying to figure out what could be the problem.

Thank you!
Tom

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
03-26-08, 06:06 AM
Tom <hornyguy@yahoo.com> fired this volley in
news:s79ju35pfsep5crvlkq2kmaeglpcs743l6@4ax.com:

> There are two DSL lines on my property and they both work fine but
> each on each side of the yard.
>
> I decided to run them together in a single CAT5E cable to my two DSL
> modems using 4 wires of one DSL line and 4 wires for the other one.

Tom, my DSL comes in on one twisted pair, not four wires.

I think you're mis-wiring something.

LLoyd

Bill Kearney
03-26-08, 08:05 AM
> Sure I can run two separate CAT5E cables and wire them to 568A or B
> standards but would I dont see why I couldnt run each DSL line in the
> same cable?

DSL needs only one pair, not two. That's two wires, not four, for each DSL
set up.

You should be able to run this type of setup with absolutely no trouble at
all. If you have trouble then it's either bad wiring or bad wire.

There are 4 twisted pairs in a CAT5 bundle. Each based on a color:
blue/blue-white, orange/orange-white, green/green-white, brown/brown-white.
You should be able to put one DSL pair on, say, blue and the other on orange
(or whatever combo you'd like). Just make sure you're sticking with one
color/color-white pair for each line. Do not split pairs and do not
combine pairs.

Test your pairs and make sure you don't have a short somewhere. That would
certainly cause the sort of trouble you're seeing.

-Bill Kearney

DTC
03-26-08, 09:01 AM
Tom wrote:
> I dont see why I couldnt run each DSL line in the
> same cable

You certainly can.

IF..IF...you indeed have TWO telco dial-tone/DSL circuits where you have
two separate accounts from the telco with two telephone numbers and two
DSL assignments, THEN you can extend them up to several hundred feet.

Is that really what you have going on there? If it is, then you have
a wiring problem.

Keep the first telco circuit on the White/Blue pairs and second circuit
on the white-orange pairs and it will work.

Jeff Liebermann
03-26-08, 11:42 AM
On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:04:13 -0700, Tom <hornyguy@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Exactly the telco runs over a thousand feet of twisted wire and I'm
>only running 400 ft across my property and I have this problem.
>
>I am going with two CAT5E cables as that solves the problem but
>was just trying to figure out what could be the problem.

400ft of CAT5 should not be a problem. I suggest you try an
experiment first. Take a 500ft roll of CAT5 and just connect the ends
to the MPOE and the cable modem(s). The idea is to test the system
before laying the cable. It also avoids any problems with noise
pickup (fluorescent ballasts, xfomers, motors, etc). If it works on
the spool, then try rolling it out. It *SHOULD* work.

Also, various modems have internal diagnostics which include S/N
ratio, line levels, and error rate. Try it with the modem plugged
into the MPOE (no CAT5), and then again at the end of the CAT5 spool.
Also, I've seen CAT5 with broken wires in the spool, but only once.
Check continuity with an ohms guesser.

Of course there's the obvious problem of pair selection. Don't create
a wiring maze where you end up with split pairs. You only need two
pairs out of the 4 pair cable. Don't double up pairs as that will
increase the crosstalk.

That which is most obviously correct, beyond any need of checking, is
usually the problem. This should be easy (famous last words).

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
03-26-08, 12:17 PM
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> fired this volley in
news:nauku3tp9kvol0dn8390mrqc095es0b9g3@4ax.com:

> Of course there's the obvious problem of pair selection. Don't create
> a wiring maze where you end up with split pairs. You only need two
> pairs out of the 4 pair cable. Don't double up pairs as that will
> increase the crosstalk.

Why two pairs, Jeff? My DSL comes in on a POTS line on one pair.

LLoyd

DTC
03-26-08, 04:45 PM
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
> Why two pairs, Jeff? My DSL comes in on a POTS line on one pair.

The OP appears to indicate he has two DSL circuits.

Jeff Liebermann
03-26-08, 05:49 PM
On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 17:17:19 -0000, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
<lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:

>Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> fired this volley in
>news:nauku3tp9kvol0dn8390mrqc095es0b9g3@4ax.com:
>
>> Of course there's the obvious problem of pair selection. Don't create
>> a wiring maze where you end up with split pairs. You only need two
>> pairs out of the 4 pair cable. Don't double up pairs as that will
>> increase the crosstalk.

>Why two pairs, Jeff? My DSL comes in on a POTS line on one pair.
>LLoyd

Yep. However, he has two phone lines. (See title of article).
One pair for each phone line.



--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

dold@35.usenet.us.com
03-26-08, 07:58 PM
Tom <hornyguy@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I decided to run them together in a single CAT5E cable to my two DSL
> modems using 4 wires of one DSL line and 4 wires for the other one.

Why four wires each? There are only two live wires for each phone line.

> One line works perfect until I connect the other 4 wires for the 2n
> line then each DSL line dies! I can connect one or the other but not
> both. I would like to know why?

Sonic.net is running 30Mbps to someone's house on a pair of DSL lines.
I didn't read the article closely, but maybe there's a technical hint in
there.
http://corp.sonic.net/blog/2008/02/22/30mbps-to-tyes-house/
"30Mbps to Tye's house"

--
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

Adair Winter
03-26-08, 10:39 PM
"Tom" <hornyguy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:s79ju35pfsep5crvlkq2kmaeglpcs743l6@4ax.com...
> There are two DSL lines on my property and they both work fine but
> each on each side of the yard.
>
> I decided to run them together in a single CAT5E cable to my two DSL
> modems using 4 wires of one DSL line and 4 wires for the other one.
>
> One line works perfect until I connect the other 4 wires for the 2n
> line then each DSL line dies! I can connect one or the other but not
> both. I would like to know why?
>
> Sure I can run two separate CAT5E cables and wire them to 568A or B
> standards but would I dont see why I couldnt run each DSL line in the
> same cable?
>
> Thanks!
> Thomas Redman
> Los Angeles, CA


The short answer is, Yes you can. Actually you should be able to run four of
them on one cat5 cable.
The long answer....
A DSL circuit runs on a single pair of wires (two wires) from the telco to
your property.
Not knowing how you're cat5 cable is terminated or how your circuits appear
from telco it's hard to tell you how to make your setup work however knowing
if this a residential or commercial install I can only make assumptions but
if you have a 400' run I'll assume commercial. Even with that assumption
their are alot of varibles. Most of the time I see Telco's deliver a pots
dsl circuit on a telephone style biscuit jack (meaning you can plug any type
of rj-11/14 line cord into it) normally what I do is plug a single dsl
filter into this jack and crimp my own rj-14 jack on a pair of a cable (blue
pair for clean dial time, orange pair for dsl) then I usually terminate this
cable on inside wiring blocks (such as 66 blocks or 110 blocks) from there I
cross connect them to the devices, such as the dsl modem (for the dsl side)
and the into a phone system or fax machine for the dial tone side.

If your cat5e cable is on a patch panel the easiest way to split out the
pairs would be to build a custom cable that has a single rj45 on one end and
splitting the pairs out on the other end.. how you choose to do this is
entirely up to you. If you have a 568b cat5 cable that you cut one end off
the blue pair is pair one and the green pair is pair two, or just make sure
it's you use the same color pairs on both ends.

Being a inside telephone guy this is everyday stuff for me, unless it's
super easy to run the cable I would look into using the cable that's in
place if you have the know how to do this right.

Adair