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Sher_Khan
12-17-00, 07:50 PM
Now bout the P4 i saw a few test happening with that thing and was pretyt impressive. I wanna get 1 but i heard to wait for a while cause there is gonna be a second series of socket P4's.

HongKongPolice
12-17-00, 07:57 PM
If you're dumb enuff to get a P4.... then I guess you're dumb enuff to get a P4......

freckmoto
12-17-00, 08:43 PM
Rambus is dead, P4 has crappy benches 2 words: DDR t-birds. Thats it http://www.speedguide.net/ubb/smile.gif

Freckmoto

------------------
Abit KT7 RAID
Duron 600 @ 1000mhz
OCZ Monster 2 Heatsink
256mb PC133 Infineon 222
10 gig
TNT2
Aureal Vortex 2

HongKongPolice
12-17-00, 09:05 PM
Heres a roadmap of things to come from AMD:

http://www.geocities.com/alphatr0n/amdchiproadmap.gif

http://www.geocities.com/alphatr0n/amdroadmap.gif

These are almost a month old, and yes I did get them from HardOCP, but I bet most ppl never saw them.

Can't wait til the Palomino and Morgan chips come out!! AMD is gonna kick Intel's ass so hard they'll be shi.tting blood for a year.

Sher_Khan
12-18-00, 07:51 PM
The AMD Atlon (Palmonia)looks great. Whats your opinion on it???

HongKongPolice
12-18-00, 09:17 PM
Palomino will be the King of the hill when it comes out cuz it'll probably be using 100% isotopically pure silcon which lowers CPU temp by 35C!! Add DDR ram, 133Mhz FSB, + copper interconnects and core optimizations and the P4 is dead

Gyga-Bite
12-19-00, 01:06 AM
Sorry to rain on your parade but every site that has reviewed the P4 see great potential. Why not go to hothardware, anandtech, or firingsquad ( forget tomshardware, he's too biased to be journalistically credible ).

I hate to tell you, but P4 has dual RAMBUS channel that doubles the 1.6GB/s bandwidth of PC800 RDRAM to 3.2GB/s vs. DDR SDRAM 266's 2.1GB/s. Oh and RDRAM is currently cheaper than DDR SDRAM. You can get PC800 RDRAM for $169 vs. the +$210 price tag of current sticks of 128megs of DDR 266.

And did you know that it is a known fact that AMD processors are optimized specifically for benchmark performance? I'll bet you didn't. But the bottom line is that both get the job done, so quit yer pissin an' moanin. Just because you own an AMD product doesn't mean you have to act like one of the company's PR goons.

And if you think Intel is going under think again. Us hardware freaks are a niche in the market ( although we are the niche that generaly has the high end stuff aimed at us first, we are nothing compared to the business market. ( When's the last time you saw an office with AMD machines or running AMD powered servers? )

I will admit, buying P4 as is right now isn't smart. It isnt the end of the world if you do, as I have never had a mobo that hasnt needed replacing when one of my CPUs got too old, although I never buy the celeron just to wait for the flagship processors to drop in price ( whats the point ) P4 in a few months will be awesome, and I cant wait to see where Intel goes with it, I hope they stick by RDRAM because I do own an i820 and it is the best pc i have ever used hands down.

Im sure the palomino will scream, and the AMD760 chipset is the leader in DDR right now, so I have to give props to AMD, but Intel is far from dead, and P4 has great potential. Think about it for a sec. AMD revised Athlon after the release of the first core, why cant Intel do the same? ( To answer that they probably will ).

Oh and if you think AMD makes processors cost less because they love you- the consumer, then you are probably the type of person that believes every bit of print news and takes every televised news broadcast as the final word on an issue.

AMD's low prices are due to lower demand than Intel. And if you think about it, AMD has lower production capacity than Intel and they still are making surplus chips and not even coming close to attaining equilibrium between supply and demand. On the other hand, Intel has massive chip output capacity and still has hard times meeting their huge demand for processors, hence the higher price tag.

If the situation were reversed you can bet your ass AMD would be pinching you for every penny.

[This message has been edited by Gyga-Bite (edited 12-19-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Gyga-Bite (edited 12-19-2000).]

glc1
12-19-00, 02:34 AM
Way to tell them all off Gyga-Bite. http://www.speedguide.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

TigerUpperCut and others: How are you gentlemen basing your opinions? Have you actually used a P4 rig and personally done benchmarks, or are you using online benchmarks/editorials as your main/only criteria?

Also, take into consideration that the P4 is aimed at servers and highend workstations--NOT consumer desktops.

TigerUpperCut, if I recall correctly from your previous posts, you don't even own an AMD system, yet you urge advice seeking posters to go w/AMD to avoid getting shafted, and to avoid the hype. Try a different approach--use your extensive knowledge to showcase both sides, then help the poster decide which route best fits his scenario.

Just some thoughts... http://www.speedguide.net/ubb/wink.gif



[This message has been edited by glc1 (edited 12-19-2000).]

jdblitz
12-19-00, 07:04 AM
Originally posted by glc1:
Way to tell them all off Gyga-Bite. http://www.speedguide.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

TigerUpperCut and others: How are you gentlemen basing your opinions? Have you actually used a P4 rig and personally done benchmarks, or are you using online benchmarks/editorials as your main/only criteria?



Well, I have used and abused a p4 1400 and let me tell you. It is freakin sooooo much sweeter than the t-bird 1200 (which I have also had the pleasure of playing with). Maybe its the 200 more mhz but I doooont think so. I think with the p4, the processor isn't going to be the single focus for machine performance, the performance of the memory it uses is SPECTACULAR! The memory advantages of the p4 architecture(sp) are going to outweigh the seemingly underpowered 1400 mhz it posts. remember the first time you cranked the memory from 3way interleave to 4 way and then set it from cas 333 to cas 222? see any difference in system performance? Its gonna be the same thing with the p4 only tenfold. You'll see. When your local shop has one on display, don't listen to the sales guy, ask him to fire up a 3D app and shuddup. if they have a nice vid card and settings right, you will be amazed!!

Gyga-Bite
12-19-00, 10:42 AM
I'm glad I could come in and save the day before these knuckle heads swayed anymore newbies with incomplete information. I have been on hothardware for quite some time and we had a problem with people bashing Intel with absolutely no right or proof, some of these people were still on K6-2's and they were saying Athlon beat the hell outta anything Intel could produce. AND THEY WERE USING K6-2's!!!!!!! LOL.

Amro
12-19-00, 07:03 PM
heh read toms hardware. i'm a fan of both companies, right now the p4 is performing just bairly above the athlon t-bird, but this is completely unoptimized. if the p4 is optimized, it outshines the current amd chip--the amd is a better value as of now tho.. as far as what's better?? wait'll the k8 hammer comes out and then compare.. the p4 and athlon are two different generations. p3 and athlon are meant to compete.. heh. i would HOPE that intel's latest is faster than the older athlon heh.

Merc
12-19-00, 07:24 PM
Hey son http://www.anandtech.com/polls.html?i=93

freckmoto
12-19-00, 07:31 PM
I am too biased. I have used a P4 and in all truth, they are damn fast. I am sure that some of the benches that aren't so good will be fixed w/ later releases of the processor. glc, just curious, what is the system that you use?

Freckmoto

------------------
Abit KT7 RAID
Duron 600 @ 1000mhz
OCZ Monster 2 Heatsink
256mb PC133 Infineon 222
10 gig
TNT2
Aureal Vortex 2

glc1
12-19-00, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by freckmoto:
glc, just curious, what is the system that you use?
My Box:
Celeron 300A @ 450
Asus P2B-LS
512MB of PC133 CAS3 RAM (Infineon chips on all sticks; 2 differnt PCBs; all sticks capable of CAS2 at 133)
Guillemot 3D Prophet DDR
Vortex2
Seagate Cheetah Ultra2 LVD 9GB
Plextor UltraPlex Wide
PlexWriter 8x20
Logitech MouseMan Wheel Optical
Microsoft Natural Keyboard
CoolerMaster ATC-200-MX
TurboCool 300
Mitsubishi 2040u (used by server too)
speakers - hooked up to my stereo via Optical (aka Toslink) (server is too)
Sony STR-DE825
Infinity 50W sub
Infinity tower spkrs.
Polk Audio cntr. channel
Boston Acoustics real spkrs.

Server:
CuMine Celeron 600
Asus CUSL2
128MB of PC133 CAS3 RAM (Crucial; works at 133 at CAS2)
3dfx Voodoo 3 3000
Vortex2
(2) Intel Pro/100 S Management NICs
ATT@Home; RCA DCM215 (currently trying to get Telocity 786kbps SDSL working)
IBM 75GXP 30GB
Toshiba 48x CD-Rom
Logitech MouseMan Wheel
Microsoft Natural Keyboard
INWIN A500 Mid-Tower
Sparkle 300W PS

[This message has been edited by glc1 (edited 12-19-2000).]

Gyga-Bite
12-19-00, 08:07 PM
And that poll is supposed to mean? What exactly grandpa?

Merc
12-19-00, 09:07 PM
That the majority of people feel that AMD is going to take the Lead in Chip Technology now.

HongKongPolice
12-19-00, 10:49 PM
1) Yes RDRAM is faster with the P4, and yes DDR IS more expensive right now, BUT do you remember how much RDRAM costs when it was 1st released?!? Like 400bux for 128MB or somethin, DDR is only 200bux and will drop to SDRAM-like prices cuz it only costs 5-10% more to make DDR RAM than normal SD.

2) Thats a lot of bullsh.it talking bout how AMD cpus are optimized for benchmarks. Wheres your proof? And no, I don't own an AMD system you *******

3) No, I don't think AMD makez CPU prices low just cuz they love consumers, but they're competing with Intel. You know why theres such a high demand for Intel chips? Cuz almost all newbies believe Intel is supierior so they buy Intel all the time. Intel spends millionz in advertising while I haven't even seen a single AMD commercial before.

Like I said before, the P4 is designed for marketing, its designed so that they can pump up the Mhz rating and attract more newbies thinking that the more Mhz, the faster. In doing so, they sacraficed raw preformance to keep the chip from melting.

I'll agree that the P4 has the upper hand in terms of Memory bandwidth, but the gap will close once DDR mobos, and DDR RAM reach maturity, while RDRAM doesn't have much tweaking left cuz its been out since i820.

glc1
12-19-00, 11:26 PM
Originally posted by :
You know why theres such a high demand for Intel chips? Cuz almost all newbies believe Intel is supierior so they buy Intel all the time. I guess all businesses are "newbies" then, huh?


Originally posted by TigerUpperCut:
Like I said before, the P4 is designed for marketingIn this day and age, everything is designed for marketing, especially of late/highend technology.


Originally posted by TigerUpperCut:
And no, I don't own an AMD system you dumbassI think we all know who the dumb ass is. Just look how sophisticated your posts are and how you conduct yourself...LOL



[This message has been edited by glc1 (edited 12-20-2000).]

HongKongPolice
12-19-00, 11:37 PM
glc1, what do you have against me? Just cuz I like AMD and you like Intel.

Hey, i'm a teenager so I can act like 1, so fu.ck you

glc1
12-19-00, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by TigerUpperCut:
glc1, what do you have against me?Nothing, until the 'fu.ck you' and '...you *******' comments. You sure have a way w/words.


Originally posted by :
Just cuz I like AMD and you like Intel.That couldn't be farther from the truth. The reason why I currently have all Intel systems -- Celerons b/c I don't want to spend the money on a CuMine P3 and compatible motherboard -- is b/c I'm waiting for a solid motherboard chip to be released by AMD. The 760 will hopefully be that chip. If it is, I'll be buying a highend T'bird and 760 mainboard soon. http://www.speedguide.net/ubb/smile.gif


Originally posted by :
Hey, i'm a teenager so I can act like 1, so fu.ck youHm, I don't ever remember acting like this when I was a teen.

milwaukeeguy
12-20-00, 01:54 AM
Gyga-bite,

Does the reason why AMD chips cost less than Intels matter?? No, it doesnt. Supply and demand mean nothing when you can get more for your money in one product verses another. People like AMD because they give us a good value, and a lot of people (like myself) feel theyre better processors. Everyone can argue that until theyre blue in the face about whos really better. But the fact is, Intel charges what it does because of it's name (it's the Sony of the processor world; i.e. living off it's past success). The main point is no person that had some know how about computers would tell someone to get an Intel when it came down to the money.

It seems that you're from Texas also; because I get a "bigger is better" feel from your post. I don't care about Intels output, and where their market share is at right now. If they dont shape up, they will ship out...it's only a matter of time. Don't believe me? Go talk to the folks at Packard Bell.

Lastly, your pricing on SDRAM is as off as your theory about the signifagance of AMDs pricing. Crucial.com sells a 128MB stick of PC1600 DDR for $116.99 (free shipping), and the PC2100 128MB stick for $128.69 (free shipping).

milwaukeeguy
12-20-00, 01:57 AM
Also, if you would, please post where you found that RDRAM at the price you listed. Because the lowest prices i've seen are twice that. Maybe throwing in some proof about where you found out that Athlons are "optimized for benchmarks" would also make your post seem more substanctive, rather than the gibberish I took it for.

[This message has been edited by milwaukeeguy (edited 12-20-2000).]

jdblitz
12-20-00, 07:40 AM
Originally posted by Merc:
Hey son http://www.anandtech.com/polls.html?i=93


ROFL whatever, amd will not have more sales than intel next year. If they do, I'll buy you a sledgehammer and if they dont, you buy me the 1.5G P4! oh and motherboards to match.


And hey, let get a little more civilized guys, Tiger, come on, even teenagers can show respect for fellow computer enthusiasts just because people believe differently is no reason to belittle them. This is a place for people to share knowledge and Tiger, I know you have some to share, but, being rude is not the way to do it my friend. And no, I don't have anything against ya. I like everyone. Cept inflamatory newbie punks. LMAO jk.

JD


------------------
There is always a way, you just might not like what you have to do to achieve it.
My house I'm building below.
http://www.geocities.com/jdtdhouse/modelfrontmini.jpg
www.geocities.com/jonathanwork/OC_CENTRAL.html (http://www.geocities.com/jonathanwork/OC_CENTRAL.html)

[This message has been edited by jdblitz (edited 12-20-2000).]

Hell_Yes
12-20-00, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by TigerUpperCut:

I'll agree that the P4 has the upper hand in terms of Memory bandwidth, but the gap will close once DDR mobos, and DDR RAM reach maturity, while RDRAM doesn't have much tweaking left cuz its been out since i820.

From what I read. It is DDR- SGRAM that is reaching its limits, not RAMBUS. AMD chose DDR for its price and not having to pay for the rights to make it or use it.

please correct me if I am wrong.

shant,
david

milwaukeeguy
12-20-00, 01:26 PM
Gyga-bite,

I looked at Buy.com; and as far as I can tell they don't even sell Samsung, or NEC RDRAM memory. Once again I ask you to post a link. And you should do the same about the AMD benchmark claim (since you've read and seen so much, that should be easy, right?). Personally I dont think you'll come with either of the above.

Gyga-Bite
12-20-00, 01:52 PM
http://www.gogocity.com//product.asp?store%5Fid=3&strDeptName=Memory+%28RAM%29&dept%5Fid=913&mscssid=H7ET152KS6S92JWP00JP42PFC41L1T4A

Lol, I'm so retarded. It's gogocity.com, not buy.com. My bad people. Just go to the site, go to hardware, click memory and its right at the top. That other site had IBM ram, alot of companies are still trying to take advantage of people willing to paying the extra money. It's just an attempt to make tons of profit off of P4. Not RAMBUS fault, blame IBM, Mushkin, Dell for being greedy little bastards.

milwaukeeguy
12-20-00, 01:57 PM
Ok Gyga-bite....my bad. I guess there was some truth to one of your claims. But DDR is still cheaper http://www.speedguide.net/ubb/smile.gif

jdblitz
12-20-00, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by milwaukeeguy:
Ok Gyga-bite....my bad. I guess there was some truth to one of your claims. But DDR is still cheaper http://www.speedguide.net/ubb/smile.gif

Uhh, no.
www.pricewatch.com (http://www.pricewatch.com)

ddr 128MB 189$
rdram 128MB 149$

Damn, try again!

Gyga-Bite
12-20-00, 02:47 PM
Blitz, just let all the DDR fans alone. They have obviously become accustomed to the price argument against RDRAM, which was the only really valid argument against it in the first place. The truth is there for us to see, and that's all that matters to me. I also wanted to say officially that I really like this forum and I love all ya guys already. I have a feeling I will expand my knowledge ( and hopefully yours ) even more by posting here. Let there be peace, not war!

HongKongPolice
12-20-00, 02:56 PM
Like I said before, RDRAM has been out for over a year while DDR has just come out so they aren't producing many DDR modules. DDR only takes 5-10% more to produce than normal SDRAM so wait a few months when DDR mobos are abundant and you'll see DDR selling for SDRAM-Like prices.

As for RDRAM, you won't be seeing any price drops for a LONG time, and if you ask me, $170 for 128MB of RDRAM sux ass especially when you gotta install them in pairs.

Check it out: http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/prices/weekly_memory/2.shtml

------------------
------------------
Abit BX133 RAID
P3 550E @ 831Mhz w/ watercooling
320MB Infineon/Mosel Vitalic PC100/PC133 @ 151Mhz CAS222
Voodoo3 2000 PCI @ 192Mhz
Quantum KX 13gig
Fujitsu 20gig
SoundBlaster AWE64/Live Value

Gyga-Bite
12-20-00, 03:52 PM
So you and sharkyextreme are market analysts now huh? Too bad they didn't give any reason why it might(?) go up. And I dont know why it would as Intel hasn't even begun to get serious about making the P4 more main stream, hell the biggest P4 price cut isnt even till january. I highly doubt RAMBUS is gonna say "Hey look P4 prices are down! Oh my god it's catching on! Ok, let's raise prices so no buys it or our memory!!!"

Does that make no sense to anyone buy me?

And hell, even if it does go up, how much will it be? like 10 more bucks for like a week, then prices will flux again and it will MORE THAN likely go down ( notice I use the same amount of evidence for my theory that sharky does for theirs ***none*** ). Because it's speculation, I hope you have gotten my point by now.

milwaukeeguy
12-20-00, 04:52 PM
No Blitz, you're wrong read my post above.

Gyga-Bite
12-20-00, 11:09 PM
Go to buy.com and look under memory guys, 169 for samsung, and NEC just dropped another 4 bucks to 165, last time i checked.

Oh and Tiger, I have been reading volumes of forum posts and articles, and have some close nerdy friends that are engineers, so my sources are hardly newbies. Go do some research, there are tons of engineers/tech geeks online that have done plenty of talking on the AMD benchmark optimization, go to anandtech and even pcgameworld have a few enlightened regulars. Sorry If I cant get into detail on the specifics of the optimization because I am only a hardware monkey ( computer equivalent of grease monkey http://www.speedguide.net/ubb/biggrin.gif ) and not an engineer. But hey, who gives a $hit what engineers think anyway right tiger?

Those damn newbies! http://www.speedguide.net/ubb/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by Gyga-Bite (edited 12-20-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Gyga-Bite (edited 12-20-2000).]

Gyga-Bite
12-20-00, 11:16 PM
Jesus Blitz! I thought my office space was chaos! It looks like a damn tornado broke into your house and headed straight for your computer room http://www.speedguide.net/ubb/biggrin.gif. ( Nice dual monitor setup by the way )

Oh, and I forgot to address this in my last post but, I am not from Texas. Look to the left of this post and you will see I am quite actually the complete opposite to Texas, geographically speaking.

Although I do like big breasts and big monitors, so I guess I've got a little bit o' Texan in me after all. YEHAH!!!!!!! j/k http://www.speedguide.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

jdblitz
12-20-00, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by Gyga-Bite:
Jesus Blitz! I thought my office space was chaos! It looks like a damn tornado broke into your house and headed straight for your computer room http://www.speedguide.net/ubb/biggrin.gif. ( Nice dual monitor setup by the way http://www.speedguide.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

Well, unfortunately, thats just an old monitor I use for testing and configuring spare pc's and pc's I work on for family(see stack on top of tower pc and under smaller monitor) and as for the mess, LOL its even worse now, I never have time to get done what I need to get done, let alone clean up afterwards http://www.speedguide.net/ubb/biggrin.gif LMAO

------------------
There is always a way, you just might not like what you have to do to achieve it.
My house I'm building below.
http://www.geocities.com/jdtdhouse/modelfrontmini.jpg
www.geocities.com/jonathanwork/OC_CENTRAL.html (http://www.geocities.com/jonathanwork/OC_CENTRAL.html)

[This message has been edited by jdblitz (edited 12-20-2000).]

Juggernaut
12-21-00, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by TigerUpperCut:
Hey, i'm a teenager so I can act like 1, so fu.ck you

Why does being a teenager have any bearing on being ignorant and immature? Why is it that teenagers think that since they ARE teenagers, they can act like idiots and show no respect for anyone? I just hope one day all these mouthy, disillusioned fools will get what's coming to them.