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CableDude
06-17-06, 10:50 AM
Specs 400mhz
384 mb memory (one stick may be bad)
Windows 2000 sp4
20 GB WD HD
16 MB Matrox video card.


Now I get warnings of SPD cannot be found in DIMMS 2,3 on every boot up because of the memory on the VC appears to be not compatible with the memory on the board. (Been going on for years)

Scrolling on forums and opening some programs seems to be bad.

I did just switch to this HD and that's when it became more noticeable.

Seems like there may be a bottle neck somewhere. :confused:

YeOldeStonecat
06-17-06, 10:55 AM
What make/model PC? Some early Compaq Deskpro's of that vintage CPU speed (EP series) did have a bad batch of Matrox vid cards...I remember having to flash fleets of those rigs back then.

YARDofSTUF
06-17-06, 10:56 AM
Well if 1 stick of ram is bad, GET RID OF IT, unless this is your boss' PC, then take out the good one.

Video drivers are correctly installed?

And what do you mean the board memory isnt compatible with teh video card memory?

CableDude
06-17-06, 11:21 AM
What make/model PC? Some early Compaq Deskpro's of that vintage CPU speed (EP series) did have a bad batch of Matrox vid cards...I remember having to flash fleets of those rigs back then.

Pentium II 400mhz. Local built PC. Video is not integrated. :)

CableDude
06-17-06, 11:23 AM
Well if 1 stick of ram is bad, GET RID OF IT, unless this is your boss' PC, then take out the good one.

:thumb:


Video drivers are correctly installed?

Think so.



And what do you mean the board memory isnt compatible with teh video card memory?

That's what the SPD error is all about. At least when I was researching it that's what it was.

The HD makes a lot more noise then the 13gb that was in there. It's scaring me. :(

CableDude
06-17-06, 11:25 AM
I can drop down to an 8 meg card and I know I won't see that error.

YARDofSTUF
06-17-06, 11:47 AM
SPD error from the bios should just be saying that the RAM is not running at speed. Never seen it refer to video and board memory, what bios, ami, award?

CableDude
06-17-06, 01:11 PM
SPD error from the bios should just be saying that the RAM is not running at speed. Never seen it refer to video and board memory, what bios, ami, award?

Award bios.

YARDofSTUF
06-17-06, 01:22 PM
Set the RAM speed as low as u can, 66 or 100, whatever the bios will do.

EDIT: no, if the error goes away with a new videocard use the new card, and run memtest!

CableDude
06-17-06, 02:29 PM
Error gone with the 8 meg video card. I'm going to try and test the remaining ram. I think I took the bad stick out.

I also switched HD back. I'm down to 1% free space which I have to fix asap!

No different. Scrolling actually seems worse now. :eek:

ghettoside
06-17-06, 03:38 PM
Did you check the AGP aperature setting in BIOS?

if it's set to 8Mb... and you're running a 16MB Matrox agp... that might cause a problem.

also, does it have an onboard vid that's not being used?

It could also be a bad Matrox like Stonecat said. :nod:

YeOldeStonecat
06-17-06, 03:43 PM
Pentium II 400mhz. Local built PC. Video is not integrated. :)

These were AGP cards. Intel 440bx chipset on the Compaq Deskpros...rock solid chipset. Something funky with the Matrox cards at that time.

ghettoside
06-17-06, 04:20 PM
These were AGP cards. Intel 440bx chipset on the Compaq Deskpros...rock solid chipset. Something funky with the Matrox cards at that time.

Yups, I ran into 2 of 'em. :nod:

Imho, fyi, Stonecat is the residing SG Compaq expert. :p


...Man, wish I had a dime for every one of those 2000's I've worked on or setup. ...

:D :D :D

I know we're not talking about the same models here, it's just that every time I see "Stonecat" and "Compaq" I think of that thread (http://forums.speedguide.net/showthread.php?t=114307). ;)

YARDofSTUF
06-17-06, 04:53 PM
Stonecat invented compaq

CableDude
06-17-06, 06:23 PM
I am now running a 8 MB SIS 6326 AGP card.

ghettoside
06-17-06, 06:45 PM
I am now running a 8 MB SIS 6326 AGP card.

Did you check the agp aperature setting in BIOS?

btw, not every Matrox card was junk...

ghettoside
06-17-06, 06:46 PM
Stonecat invented compaq

:rotfl:

:p

CableDude
06-17-06, 07:53 PM
Did you check the agp aperature setting in BIOS?

btw, not every Matrox card was junk...

Yes it is at 128.

YARDofSTUF
06-17-06, 11:22 PM
Buy Apple FTW!

Do you have all the drivers installed, chipset, video sound, no funky items in device manager or confilts?

If the 4 way interleave option is in the bios make sure thats enabled if it works.

Have you tried Windows 98? LOL

ghettoside
06-18-06, 02:17 AM
Yes it is at 128.

k. Imho, it was something worth checking. :)

Sorry it didn't solve anything bro. :(

ghettoside
06-18-06, 02:20 AM
Buy Apple FTW!

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:


Have you tried Windows 98? LOL

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

you are too much tonite YoS! :D

CableDude
06-18-06, 08:27 AM
Do you have all the drivers installed, chipset, video sound, no funky items in device manager or confilts?

If the 4 way interleave option is in the bios make sure thats enabled if it works.

Have you tried Windows 98? LOL

I still have to do the chipset thing. Everything else is up to date as far as I can tell.

No visable conflicts in Device Mangler.

I was thinking of going back to 98. At least it ran better under that OS. :thumb:

Norm
06-18-06, 09:21 AM
Good idea on going to 98. Win2K on a 400mhz is going to be a bit laggy.
How bad is the lag?

Honestly, depending on just how bad the lag is, it's probably normal for those specs and 2K. The HD is the bottleneck. Older drive? No cache? running at 5200 etc, and doing a lot of paging.

Swapping out the HD with a different HD with slower seek times etc made the lag more noticable. Clean up the old drive, and defrag it.

ghettoside
06-18-06, 10:56 AM
I honestly thought YoS was joking about installing win98 since support for 98 ends July 11 (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/support/endofsupport.mspx)this year (as far as I know). To me it's inconceivable to install an OS that will have no hot fix support in less than a month.

I agree w/ Norm on everything else.

I've run both 2K and then XP on a P2 and on a K62 @ 400Mhz w/ as little as 188 Mb RAM so I have actually done 2 comparisons. I've also installed xp on quite a few other 400, 450 Mhz P2 boxes and 400 Mhz K62's. There will definately be some lag on such equipment, but 2K and xp are both runnable.

For me, 2K was actually slower than xp on those 2 boxes. (intel 440 LX and an ALi on the amd) That's running classic shell, messenger uninstalled, and a few services turned off. I ran it using old slow 5200 rpm maxtors in UDMA 2 (33 Mb/s). I also ran 98 on the P2. No question that 98 will run faster. You've got 384Mb RAM, so that really isn't that bad, depending on how much you have running at startup. How much RAM and pagefile does your OS normally use?

I just finished setting up an old box for my bud's kids. 500 Mhz AMD K62 188 Mb RAM 8Gb maxtor UDMA 4 (66.7 Mb/s). I've got it running Nod32. It's not bad. I did have a glitch installing Nod the first time, tried another av, then tried Nod again. Second time n/p. Maybe there was a win auto update that installed at the same time and that's why Nod froze on reboot at the first install attempt, I dunno. I have it o/c'd now to 560 Mhz and it's stable. Running real nice, the kids needed Works and Office. I fired up both and they run smoothly.

I do believe I had an 8Mb Matrox Millenium G in that K62 box...

YARDofSTUF
06-18-06, 11:07 AM
No reason for more hotfixes, hell its been 8 years they either have it right or they dont. lol

Just need a virus scanner.

It was half a joke, with the PC being for him I can see him using 98, easier to network with his other 98 boxes. lol

ghettoside
06-18-06, 11:44 AM
Thanks for clarifying on the joking. So I was half-right, lol. :D

The Apple remark had me ROTFLMAO.

CableDude
06-18-06, 01:37 PM
Good idea on going to 98. Win2K on a 400mhz is going to be a bit laggy.
How bad is the lag?

Honestly, depending on just how bad the lag is, it's probably normal for those specs and 2K. The HD is the bottleneck. Older drive? No cache? running at 5200 etc, and doing a lot of paging.

Swapping out the HD with a different HD with slower seek times etc made the lag more noticable. Clean up the old drive, and defrag it.

It just seemed a little more noticable towards the end of this week. :confused:

The current drive is WDC (Western Digital) WD136AA.

I'm down to 256MB for Physical Memory now.

I have like 15 processes running in the background at startup.

ghettoside
06-18-06, 02:49 PM
It just seemed a little more noticable towards the end of this week. :confused:

The current drive is WDC (Western Digital) WD136AA.

I'm down to 256MB for Physical Memory now.

I have like 15 processes running in the background at startup.

That hdd is UDMA 4 (66.7) 5400 RPM 11.5ms seek time w/ 2Mb buffer

That's better than the hdd's I ran on, I think the seek times were like 13.5ms @ 5200 RPM UDMA 2 only and No buffer.

The box I just setup... no buffer on the hdd and I believe the seek time runs between 9.7 ms - 18 ms @ 5200 RPM. Only 188 Mb of RAM on it.

In case you don't know, I am the King of the Junk Pickers lol.

I have a lot of experience w/ this class of box runnning nt and xp.

Imho, I believe you'll find xp will actually perform better, at least if you force the classic shell. There's a few services you'll likely be able to turn off w/o any repurcussions. A few tweaks and it should be fine, even w/ 256 RAM. I've done it more times than I can count offhand.

ghettoside
06-18-06, 03:39 PM
I have a folding box right now that started as a P2 slot 1 400 Mhz 128 Mb RAM
20 Gb IBM UDMA 4 (I don't recall the hdd specs or model offhand, I'd have to look).

I upgraded to 450 Mhz, added RAM to 384 Mb, then j/p'd a P3 700Mhz. I flashed the BIOS to add support for the Coppermine cpu... voila... runs well for what it is and using Norton av and Spy Sweeper. The 1st 6 mos. w/ the P3 I was not online and so had no av installed, and it ran xp and all my P4 apps w/ no lag whatsoever. A P2 @ 400 Mhz 128 Mb RAM will too if no av is installed. ;)

It's been fine online w/ the av's in use since January. A tad bit of a lag w/ the norton and webroot (using real time protection in ss)... but not bad at all.

I also have o/c'ing capabilities in the BIOS, so despite being a locked slot 1 cartridge type I have adjusted the FSB and run @ 784 Mhz using PC133 sticks.

Damn nice board, was a j/p item too. AOpen AX6BC EZ (http://global.aopen.com.tw/Products/mb/ax6bcez.htm).



CPU Jumper-less Design
Pentium II/Pentium III/Pentium 4/AMD K7 VID signal and SMbus clock generator provide CPU voltage auto-detection and allows the user to set the CPU frequency through the BIOS setup, therefore no jumpers or switches are used. The correct CPU information is saved into the EEPROM.

AOpen Motherboard's implements EEPROM and a special circuit that allows you to save your current CPU and CMOS Setup configurations without the need of a battery. The RTC (real time clock) can also keep running as long as the power cord is plugged.

it does not say that it supports PC133, but it does, or anyway it does after the latest BIOS update.

Anyway, my point was maybe you could find a lil better cpu cheap, depending on what your mobo will support.

LOL, I have some FCPGA 370 cpu's, 2 P3 @800 Mhz and 1 P3 @ 933 Mhz and an 800 Mhz Celeron. No FCPGA 370 socket mobo has happened along though. The 800's lol, there were probs w the southbridge on one box... and the other one, I put in an Adaptec SCSI card w/ a couple SCSI drives on a Compaq... incompatabile w/ the mobo BIOS and killed the BIOS. I couldn't recover the BIOS on the compaq pos, tried everything I could find googling. I looked at prolly several thousand sites.

The 933 came out of a Dell pos that was all usb and no expansion slots, some goofy unit. I pulled the RAM and cpu and tossed that pos. With a feeling of satisfaction too I may add. ;)

I was going to try a slocket 1 adapter (slot 1 to FCPGA 370, they're like $10), but then I found a review where they tried the slocket and it wouldn't run on the AX6BC EZ, so I sit on these cpu's. They're pretty cheap, I saw like $34 on a few sites.

The slot 1 cartridges are out there too for reasonable prices. I'm just too frugal to buy a cpu for the AOpen, figuring eventually I'll come upon something like a cpu or FCPGA 370 mobo when the computer gods feel so disposed to smile on me, which they always do, just sometimes there are dry spells. lol.

Bro, even if you don't screw w/ the box... I believe xp will perform better on it.

CableDude
06-18-06, 06:36 PM
I flashed the bios as well. I thought for some strange reason that I could go to a 600mhz processor, but according to the manual I can go to a 450mhz processor......

......however the manual said nothing about flashing the bios to use a higher processor....... :D

Here is the board that I have http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/3686/delta_mp2.html

I probably need to find a more updated manual.

YARDofSTUF
06-18-06, 07:25 PM
with the 1.5 bios it should do a 667 p3 right?




MotherBoard Model Name:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
MP2-BX-X ( PCB Version A,B,C )


Chip Set:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Intel i440BX


BIOS Version & Date:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Version: 1.50 [06/29/2001]


History:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.Add Support CPU Intel Piii Steping C0 ( 0686 )

ghettoside
06-18-06, 08:20 PM
I flashed the bios as well. I thought for some strange reason that I could go to a 600mhz processor, but according to the manual I can go to a 450mhz processor......

......however the manual said nothing about flashing the bios to use a higher processor....... :D

Here is the board that I have http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/3686/delta_mp2.html

I probably need to find a more updated manual.

That's a nice mobo.

That mobo will support P3. I dunno what manual you have, I downloaded one from here (http://www.dninetworks.com/download/download_utility.htm). It says only that "...currently..." P3's ship in the range of 450 to 600 Mhz. You may very well be able to use a P3 cpu over 600 Mhz.

It could be you need to change the cpu clock multiplier jumper settings on the mobo to get the 600 Mhz to run. FSB is o/c'd via the BIOS. I like your board! I bet you could turn the FSB up to 112, running PC100. Ooops... you have RAM issues...well you could try it. even only 103 FSB would pick her up a little.

I forgot to look, but prolly the manual has a chart that gives you the jumper config on the clock multiplier for the various cpu's- or the mobo will have that info on it somewhere. it's an o/c'ers mobo bro, so I'd imagine it's user friendly in the area of jumper configs. regardless, if nothing else, you just play w/ the settings until you get one that works lol.

I beleive I did in fact have to change the multiplier for the P3. Then o/c'd the FSB in BIOS.

I see your mobo only supports 384 Mb RAM. :(

I haven't found squat yet on revisions to the BIOS, so I dunno what features may be added by those BIOS updates available from drivers guide and such.

The 440BX is aimed at P3 optimizations according to intel site (http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/440bx/index.htm).

YARDofSTUF
06-18-06, 08:26 PM
http://www.dninetworks.com/download/download_bios.htm

Bios update from the same site as the manual.

CableDude
06-18-06, 09:08 PM
with the 1.5 bios it should do a 667 p3 right?


MotherBoard Model Name:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
MP2-BX-X ( PCB Version A,B,C )


Chip Set:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Intel i440BX


BIOS Version & Date:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Version: 1.50 [06/29/2001]


History:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.Add Support CPU Intel Piii Steping C0 ( 0686 )



I should learn how to read. That's the bios that I used. ;)

CableDude
06-18-06, 09:15 PM
That's a nice mobo.

That mobo will support P3. I dunno what manual you have, I downloaded one from here (http://www.dninetworks.com/download/download_utility.htm). It says only that "...currently..." P3's ship in the range of 450 to 600 Mhz. You may very well be able to use a P3 cpu over 600 Mhz.

It could be you need to change the cpu clock multiplier jumper settings on the mobo to get the 600 Mhz to run. FSB is o/c'd via the BIOS. I like your board! I bet you could turn the FSB up to 112, running PC100. Ooops... you have RAM issues...well you could try it. even only 103 FSB would pick her up a little.

I forgot to look, but prolly the manual has a chart that gives you the jumper config on the clock multiplier for the various cpu's- or the mobo will have that info on it somewhere. it's an o/c'ers mobo bro, so I'd imagine it's user friendly in the area of jumper configs. regardless, if nothing else, you just play w/ the settings until you get one that works lol.

I beleive I did in fact have to change the multiplier for the P3. Then o/c'd the FSB in BIOS.

I see your mobo only supports 384 Mb RAM. :(

I haven't found squat yet on revisions to the BIOS, so I dunno what features may be added by those BIOS updates available from drivers guide and such.

The 440BX is aimed at P3 optimizations according to intel site (http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/440bx/index.htm).

Yeah I don't see anything about jumper configs in that manual. :wth:

I think I have one of these manuals at work, I'll have to look.

Thanks. :)

ghettoside
06-19-06, 01:43 AM
Yeah I don't see anything about jumper configs in that manual. :wth:

I think I have one of these manuals at work, I'll have to look.

Thanks. :)

You're welcome.

I just went thru that manual too. I have seen many mobos that had some differences from what was listed in their manuals.

On page 12 section 5 it gives JP4 FSB jumper, and it says choice of 66 Mhz or 100 Mhz FSB, default 66. It also says 66Mhz is the FSB of current cpu's is 66 Mhz... but we know that chipset supports P3 as well as P2. And we know there were no 66 Mhz P3's, not in socket 1 nor FCPGA 370.

Hmmm... I saw on that link (http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/3686/delta_mp2.html)you posted - BIOS o/c options for the FSB... and the only jumper setting is supposed to be for the clock multiplier. And I honestly haven't looked at any more google results for it, I was out for a while tonite.



The user is still required to select the multiplier manually via a set of four jumpers (JP2). The process is very easy. Then, the rest of the process, configuring the FSB, is within the software in the Award BIOS setup. The BIOS offers a wealth of FSB options: 66,68, 75, 83, 100, 103, 112, and 133.

Hmmm.... JP2 is not JP4. :wth:

and from the manual page 32 section 6 BIOS configuration:



CPU Host/PCI Clock (Auto)
This field allows you to set CPU Host/PCI clock, If your CPU Bus Frequency is support to
100MHz, then you can set “CPU Host/PCI Clock” to Auto, 103/34, 112/33, 133/44 MHz. If your
CPU Bus Frequency is only support to 66MHz, then you can set “CPU Host/PCI Clock” to
Auto, 68/34, 75/37, 83/41 MHz.

CPU Speed Ration (x3)
This field allows you to set frequency multiple between the Internal Frequency of CPU and
External Frequency within the CPU.

Hmmmm......

Imho, I'd poke around the BIOS and see what options you actually have. I've seen mobos that said AMI BIOS in the manual but the mobo actually had Award or Phoenix!!!

And see what you have imprinted on the mobo too... settings for the clock multipliers by cpu may be right there. At the very least, you should see the multipliers and their respective jumpers settings and the JP block number... Some of 'em got DIP switches instead, but I don't beleive yours does.

I'm really curious what options you have in the BIOS, and what the mobo looks like jumper-wise.

If you go by trial and error w/ the multiplier jumpers, if the setting doesn't jive w/ the cpu... it simply will not POST. It won't kill anything. But- I wouldn't let it sit like that an hour... If you don't get a normal POST ya pull the plug and try another setting, that's all. I've done it countless times over the years, never lost a box due to tinkering w/ the multiplier.

YeOldeStonecat
06-19-06, 06:22 AM
I am now running a 8 MB SIS 6326 AGP card.

I'm sorry to hear that.



:rotfl:

ghettoside
06-19-06, 06:29 AM
I'm sorry to hear that.



:rotfl:


:eek: :eek: :eek:



:rotfl:

CableDude
06-19-06, 05:55 PM
I'm sorry to hear that.



:rotfl:


Come fix it for me. :( :(

CableDude
06-20-06, 08:07 PM
Gawd this is horrible!

I should take the PC and work on it on work time. :rotfl:

I have a 4 meg Matrox card, maybe I should try that. :(

Mark
06-20-06, 08:09 PM
i got one word for ya, Dell (http://www.dell.com/content/default.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs) :D

CableDude
06-20-06, 08:12 PM
i got one word for ya, Dell (http://www.dell.com/content/default.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs) :D


I'm thinking about it. :thumb:

Just got a new optiplex Gx520 at work today. Not for me however. :crash:

CableDude
06-20-06, 08:21 PM
I see the Matrox G400 has new drivers out. Hmmm.......


And a new bios file.

ghettoside
06-20-06, 10:48 PM
May I ask what you need that box to do?

MissTynker2
06-21-06, 09:07 AM
May I ask what you need that box to do?


Ummmm...run smoothly? ;)

<<<<<< ducking!

YARDofSTUF
06-21-06, 11:19 AM
May I ask what you need that box to do?


It controls his deathstar.

ghettoside
06-21-06, 11:36 AM
It controls his deathstar.

lol

YARDofSTUF
06-21-06, 12:05 PM
lol


Its not really funny that a large sphere with massive destruction cappabilities is out in space being powered by a 400mhz CPU.

But when you see it with the brunette wig CD made for it, even though its about to consume your world and kill everyone you know and love, ya still gotta laugh!

CableDude
06-21-06, 05:37 PM
May I ask what you need that box to do?

Internets. The scrolling is very choppy and it's pissing me off.

CableDude
06-21-06, 05:38 PM
Ummmm...run smoothly? ;)

<<<<<< ducking!


Amen! :thumb:

ghettoside
06-21-06, 07:13 PM
Internets. The scrolling is very choppy and it's pissing me off.

I had that exact same problem w/ an HP Pavilion w/ onboard video. Only in SP1... the SP2 partition, that OS did not have that problem. Both after clean install. Was the darndest thing. Only the internet was choppy!

I updated the drivers for the vid, that fixed it in SP1.

It was choppy w/ the other vid card too?

If all you want is web, honestly I'd clean install xp and then tweak it. I can give you a list of tweaks if needed (I'd have to write 'em up)

I know I keep saying load xp... I also better say I do not run Home Ed... so I dunno how accessible some of the tweaks are in Home. But that box of yours absolutley should be able to run xp, and I'm sure it will perform better than 2K.

CableDude
06-21-06, 07:21 PM
I wonder if Internet exploder got whacked somehow. I'm using firefox right now and I can live with the scrolling.

:-|

I'm going to put the matrox back in and try 600 mhz processor over the weekend

ghettoside
06-21-06, 07:35 PM
I wonder if Internet exploder got whacked somehow. I'm using firefox right now and I can live with the scrolling.

:-|

I'm going to put the matrox back in and try 600 mhz processor over the weekend

That box I mentioned... the scrolling was bad in both of those browsers. It did irritate me quite a bit, and I was happy when the updated drivers fixed it. I guess I was lucky compared to you.

I beleive you are making a very wise decision there for the weekend. :thumb:

CableDude
06-23-06, 09:46 AM
I made the switch.

Changed Processor to 600 mhz. Didn't have to mess around with jumpers.

Changed video card to back to Matrox 16MB - updated drivers.

Switched the two good memory sticks around too.

Everything seems to be working fine... *crosses fingers.

Need to free up more HD space next.