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koldchillah
05-31-03, 03:59 PM
Just finished piecing together a rig for my parents. Its an el cheapo system, but everything installed smoothly, downloaded all the latest drivers, once in windows the system cruises along fine.. but I timed it at just under 2 minutes to reach the XP welcome screen which is way slower than my PII 266 takes to get into Win2k..

system specs:
Intel D845GEBV2 motherboard
Celeron 1.7 GHz
256MB PC2700 Kingston ValueRAM
Primary IDE: WD 20GB expert drive (connected at end of cable)
secondary IDE: TDK 48x CDRW (master) - Iomega Zip 100 ATAPI (slave)
Hauppauge PCI TV card (PCI slot 1)
USR 56K performance pro modem (PCI slot 2)
Linksys PCI LNE100TX v4.1 NIC (PCI slot 3)
RAIDMAX case w/ RAIDMAX 350W PSU

In BIOS I disabled the serial port, legacy USB, BIOS event logging and any other feature I saw fit to disable in order to try to reduce boot times. I'm stil yet to flash the BIOS, I suppose that may help, but I still find it odd that it would take so long to boot right out of the box.
It detects mem, the key/mouse then sits for about 15 seconds, then goes to a blank screen with a blinking cursor in the top left corner and sits there for about 40 seconds!! THEN finally goes on to the XP logo screen and continues booting normally. I set the hard drive as first boot device and it makes no difference. All jumpers should be fine, once into windows there are no problems what so ever.. I suppose I could try setting the hard drive to cable select since its by itself on the primary IDE, (its set to master right now).. think that could be it?

hmm..

Maybe it doesn't like the old Zip ATAPI drive?

weak PSU? the RAIDMAX case w/ 350W PSU was only $30 and I've got an Antec 350 layin' around here somewhere, but I'd rather give my parents the cheapy if it works..

BIOS flash?

mess more with the jumpers?

move some PCI devices into different slots?

any ideas while I'm still takin' a break on it? TIA to anyone deciding to read all this and provide input! :)

Oh, and its already folding away for SG and turned in a little WU last night. ;)

YARDofSTUF
05-31-03, 04:29 PM
might be the zip drive, does it access it when its loading?

koldchillah
05-31-03, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by YARDofSTUF
might be the zip drive, does it access it when its loading?

yep, it accesses it right at the last seconds of the 40 second blinking cursor just before it moves on to the XP logo.. While it sits at the blinking cursor there seems to be no activity of any sort. Think I should enable S.M.A.R.T for the zip for a sec and see if it report anything? I don't see any other way to setup the Zip. BIOS is picking it up as secondary slave which is correct.

I wish my mom wasn't so set on having this stupid Zip 100, but unfortunately it was in her really old Packard Bell P133 which I scrapped and put the oem Zip 100 in this PC.. She used it a lot with the Packard Bell and I promised her this computer would do everything her packard bell did and then some... geesh., I'd much rather yank it from the system. I might just do it just to see if thats really it, but I'm just so lazy to dig hardware out of this thing after I spent all last night getting it setup.... I need to let my patience rebuild.. lol

YARDofSTUF
05-31-03, 06:08 PM
ya i know how u feel

YeOldeStonecat
05-31-03, 08:16 PM
Tis always best to run Windows setup withOUT the IDE Zip connected. Once you're done with setup, doing your driver installs, etc...plug it in. Windows will load it fine without any Iomega drivers. I've just noticed odd things now and then from systems that had a zip connected when Windows was installed.

The zip light lighting upis normal, of brief, during boot up, as it's driver loads and it comes online/powers up.

Needlefreak
05-31-03, 09:20 PM
Google for "Bootvis" ...I belive thats the name..

koldchillah
06-01-03, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by YeOldeStonecat
Tis always best to run Windows setup withOUT the IDE Zip connected. Once you're done with setup, doing your driver installs, etc...plug it in. Windows will load it fine without any Iomega drivers. I've just noticed odd things now and then from systems that had a zip connected when Windows was installed.

The zip light lighting upis normal, of brief, during boot up, as it's driver loads and it comes online/powers up.

Your right as always and I should have listened to myself when I threw it all together, but I thought to myself.. "nah.. not much to this system, lets just throw it together and get it done with.."

I figured windows would have loaded it fine but it didn't.. Funny though, it had reserved a drive letter for it and it was showing up in BIOS, but it remained unusable until I loaded the iomega drivers. Either way it was slow to boot before and after installing those drivers. I'm gonna try a bunch of ideas today including that bootvis and removing the zip & maybe flashing BIOS if I'm still having problems.. I've got a renewed set of patience this morning so I better get started right away.. I'll post back with results.. thanks for the input guys.. :)

YeOldeStonecat
06-01-03, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by koldchillah
I've got a renewed set of patience this morning so I better get started right away.. I'll post back with results.. thanks for the input guys.. :)

Are you that far into the install where I'd suggest starting over..unplus the zip, format the HD, and reinstall from scratch. Invest a little time now than trying to troubleshoot a "still flakey" system later.

koldchillah
06-01-03, 01:34 PM
okay, so I removed the Zip and left the TDK CDRW drive on the cable alone set as master. I reboot and it shows:

Fixed Disk 0: PM-WDC WD205BA (Ultra DMA Mode ATA/66)
ATAPI CD-ROM SM-TDK CDRW4800B

Secondary Slave Drive - ATAPI Incompatible
press F4 to continue..

:confused:
It should even see a slave device.. I don't have any other devices hooked up to the secondary IDE except the TDK for which the BIOS finds just fine!

I reset the TDK drive's jumpers to cable select AND have tried both positions on the cable AND have tried 3 different cables and I still get this message upon every boot or restart and its still booting just as slow as when I began w/ the zip.
Once into windows everything works fine. In BIOS, it shows the correct devices set as primary IDE master - hard drive, and nothing slave and secondary master - TDK burner, nothing as slave. grrr... I'll be so pissed if this onboard IDE controller is fudged..:mad: perhaps ESCD isn't updating properly?

jmatt
06-02-03, 05:39 PM
XP
http://www.blkviper.com/WinXP/servicecfg.htm
http://www.blkviper.com/WinXP/service411.htm#Network%20DDE

Enable Quick post in BIOS setup , as long as you have a have a lot of memory .
The normal memory test , is tested three times & that alone may take 60 to 90 seconds.

jmatt
06-02-03, 05:43 PM
http://www.tweak3d.net/tweak/winstartupnew/

Windows 2000 and XP are somewhat rare, so I took the time to write this article. Hopefully you
can trim down that Windows boot time and free up some memory, and of course, make the system
more stable.

First Step - The BIOS (again!)

As with the Windows 9x guide, the first step is to trim the BIOS settings that slow your
system's boot time down.

To enter the BIOS setup, restart your PC and hit the key designated for setup (ex: "Hit delete
for setup"). Usually the key is designated right on the screen, and often times this key is
DELETE. If you can't find the key, look in your motherboard manual. If you can't find one of
the following commands, look for a similar command. If you still can't find it, skip over it
and look at the next command. Here are the commands you should look for to change:

These commands can be found in various sections of different BIOS setup programs. Search for
the following:

Turbo Frequency - ENABLE. This is not available on all motherboards, but on most it will set
your bus speed approximately 2.5% higher, offering a generous speed increase. It's overclocking,
but very minor, so most people should have no fear of this setting. It will make the whole
system a little bit faster.

IDE Hard Disk Detection - This part of the BIOS Setup will detect your hard disks for you; and
you can save the configuration. If you configure your hard drives here, you will not have to
let your BIOS auto-detect the drives every time you boot up, which will save you time. This is
a rather simple process and I don't think I need to explain it further.

Standard BIOS Setup Menu - This part of the BIOS Setup will confirm that all of the hard disks
are configured. If you're sure you're not using a certain drive, turn off auto-detection and
save yourself some time. CDROM drives usually do not need to be configured for your computer to
identify them.

Quick Power On Self Test (or POST) - ENABLE. This will have your system run a less detailed
POST, resulting in a quicker boot sequence.

Boot Sequence - Unless you plan on booting off of any drive other than your hard drive, set
this to start with C, your hard drive.(ex: "C, A, SCSI."). You can always set it back to
"CDROM" or something later.

Boot Up Floppy Seek - DISABLE. If you enable this, your system will take a few seconds to
examine the floppy drive in search of a disk, wasting your time.

---------------------------------------------------

http://www.tweak3d.net/tweak/winstartupnew/4.shtml

Once you've unzipped Bootvis, run the .exe and you'll notice several checkboxes on the left. I
only selected "Boot Activity". Then I chose "Trace", then "Trace Next Boot". When you reboot it
will tell you how long it took to boot everything up. My PC took 35 seconds the first time I
tried it. I had it down to 27 seconds after choosing the "Optimize System" feature under the
trace menu and various other tweaks. I imagine it could go faster, but I was happy enough with
that. My services took about 15 seconds before optimization.

koldchillah
06-02-03, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by jmatt
XP
http://www.blkviper.com/WinXP/servicecfg.htm
http://www.blkviper.com/WinXP/service411.htm#Network%20DDE

Enable Quick post in BIOS setup , as long as you have a have a lot of memory .
The normal memory test , is tested three times & that alone may take 60 to 90 seconds.

thanks for the response..

The BIOS has always been set to quick post. I've trimmed out everything in BIOS that wasn't necessary. In the IDE configuration, it only detects the primary master and the secondary master, which is correct. There is no secondary slave, yet it continues to tell me the secondary slave device is ATAPI incompatible (see my last post above).. Even when manually configuring the drives to LBA and all that jazz, it STILL refuses to quicken the boot time... I even tried starting all over and reconnecting all drives, reformatting and reinstalling and still nothing changes the long pauses during boot.

Boot sequence is set to go straight to C. I've played with that too, nothing seems to change anything.

As far as disabling services and all that, yes I normally do that, but the problems seem to be occuring before windows takes over and/or services are even loaded.

I'm concerned there is something wrong with the board or BIOS or IDE controller..

I'm yet to try the bootvis, but I've been meaning too.. I sorta got the rig up and folding@home and oddly enough its benchmarking just as fast as my main P4 rig did back when I still had a 1.4GHz cpu in it.

koldchillah
06-03-03, 12:05 PM
I put the zip drive back in and the incompatible slave device error went away. I also uninstalled the Intel Application Accelerator & its updates. Boot times are now around 1 minute rather than 2 and I can actually set the drives to DMA now rather than having the Application Accelerator control it all..
I guess I'm just going to make due with it. There's nothing left for me to disable in BIOS and I've got the drives setup manually now. Something still doesn't quite seem right, but I give up.. The PC works fine in windows and my parents won't be turning it off and restarting it much anyways..
Bootvis didn't really tell me much. I didn't quite understand their graphs... according to the graphs the PC was finshed booting in 37 seconds which is waaay off. I also noticed it takes about 20 seconds to enter BIOS after hitting F2, so it may very well be a BIOS issue for which a flash may not be such a bad idea..

thanks for all the help guys.. :)

jmatt
06-03-03, 08:25 PM
See if these help .

Programs Run Slower After You Install Windows XP SP-1
The information in this article applies to:
Microsoft Windows XP Professional SP1
Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition SP1

http://www.windows-help.net/WindowsXP/xp-sp1-bug.html
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;815411

Fixes speed problems in XPsp1 ( boot & program loading )
http://www.iebeta.net/files/Q815411_WXP_SP2_x86_ENU.exe
http://www.warp2search.net/download.php?op=viewdownload&cid=9
http://winxp.bink.nu/

Patch slows down XP
http://forums.zdnet.com/group/zd.Computer.Newbies/community/community.tpt/@thread@39018@F@1@D-,D@ALL/@article@mark@39018?EXP=ALL&VWM=&ROS=&OC=75
MS03-013: Buffer Overrun in Windows Kernel Message Handling Could Lead to Elevated Privileges
http://www.ntbugtraq.com/default.asp?pid=36&sid=1&A2=ind0304&L=ntbugtraq&F=P&S=&P=2839
Experts warn not to apply Microsoft patch
Microsoft has pulled the 811493 security patch. PC World Article.