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View Full Version : FiringSquad article on ATI Radeon 9800p 128 and 256...vs FX5900



YeOldeStonecat
05-15-03, 06:36 AM
http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardware/ati_radeon_9800_pro_review/default.asp

Quick read with lots of benchmarks comparing the 9800 in both memory configs, also a 9700 and nVidia's 5900U and 5800U thrown in the mix. With overclocking too.

loop2kil
05-15-03, 08:32 AM
ATIís anti-aliasing engine is still superior to NVIDIAís latest efforts with their Detonator FX driver release, resulting in the crispest visuals currently available on the PC. ATIís anisotropic filtering is also top notch, offering very sharp textures at a lesser performance hit than NVIDIAís GeForce FX family.

Informative review...but the above reason is why i think im sticking with ATI. looks like nvidia is taking the fps crown back but the visual quality still belongs to ATI.

YeOldeStonecat
05-15-03, 08:55 AM
Originally posted by loop2kil
Informative review...but the above reason is why i think im sticking with ATI. looks like nvidia is taking the fps crown back but the visual quality still belongs to ATI.

Yeah...I'm hedging. I could go either way. I've been waiting for the ATI 256 megger to hit the shelves....was going to buy one...figuring the NV35 wasn't going to be out for quite some time..like mid summer. But now the NV35 is released....and the 256 meg ATI still isn't on shelves yet.

The IQ difference is supposed to be quite marginal now..some websites saying the difference is negligable....depending on the games who wins. Not as big of a gap as it was.

I may still be leaning towards the 256 meg ATI...but remember again, when Doom III comes out....nVidia's going to be winning on that one quite strongly. nVidia is always optimizing their drivers, then theirs always 3rd party drivers like Omega which really crank the IQ.

I dunno....I'll probably get whichever one hit the places I purchase from first.

Brent
05-15-03, 10:19 AM
Originally posted by YeOldeStonecat
Yeah...I'm hedging. I could go either way. I've been waiting for the ATI 256 megger to hit the shelves....was going to buy one...figuring the NV35 wasn't going to be out for quite some time..like mid summer. But now the NV35 is released....and the 256 meg ATI still isn't on shelves yet.

The IQ difference is supposed to be quite marginal now..some websites saying the difference is negligable....depending on the games who wins. Not as big of a gap as it was.

I may still be leaning towards the 256 meg ATI...but remember again, when Doom III comes out....nVidia's going to be winning on that one quite strongly. nVidia is always optimizing their drivers, then theirs always 3rd party drivers like Omega which really crank the IQ.

I dunno....I'll probably get whichever one hit the places I purchase from first.

AA quality is unchanged between the NV30 and NV35

YeOldeStonecat
05-15-03, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by Brent
AA quality is unchanged between the NV30 and NV35

Most of the sites I read mentioned nVidia's new FX drivers to be publically available May 14th really addressed the issues with IQ/AA/Aniso. Those same sites that poopoo'd the prior 5800u praised the improvement the 5900 brought with the new drivers. While may agreed the 9800 still held an edge...it wasn't the huge lead it had before...and many were fencing on which looked better depending on the game.

Brent
05-15-03, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by YeOldeStonecat
Most of the sites I read mentioned nVidia's new FX drivers to be publically available May 14th really addressed the issues with IQ/AA/Aniso. Those same sites that poopoo'd the prior 5800u praised the improvement the 5900 brought with the new drivers. While may agreed the 9800 still held an edge...it wasn't the huge lead it had before...and many were fencing on which looked better depending on the game.

The 44.03 drivers are available now: http://www.nvidia.com/view.asp?IO=winxp-2k_44.03

They are the same drivers I used in our review: http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NDcy

AA quality is the same on the NV30 and NV35, AA is a hardware thing, and drivers cannot make it look better. AF is both hardware and software; there is the hardware component and then the driver algorithm, which determines what subpixels to apply Aniso to.

There are two reasons NVIDIA's AA will never look better then ATI's.

NVIDIA uses an ordered grid sampling pattern with no AA gamma correction.

ATI uses a rotated grid at 2X and 4X and a jittered grid at 6X all with AA gamma correction.

Those are a hardware thing drivers can never change.

YeOldeStonecat
05-15-03, 11:42 AM
"The 44.03 drivers are available now: http://www.nvidia.com/view.asp?IO=winxp-2k_44.03"

Yes, as yesterday was the 14th.

I wasn't singling out AA though, I simply mentioned "IQ" had been substantially improved from the 5800. This wasn't intended to be singled out down to only AA. I mentioned "IQ" meaning in general, across various aspects of it, not just a comparison in AA alone.

Brent
05-15-03, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by YeOldeStonecat
"The 44.03 drivers are available now: http://www.nvidia.com/view.asp?IO=winxp-2k_44.03"

Yes, as yesterday was the 14th.

I wasn't singling out AA though, I simply mentioned "IQ" had been substantially improved from the 5800. This wasn't intended to be singled out down to only AA. I mentioned "IQ" meaning in general, across various aspects of it, not just a comparison in AA alone.

IQ was bettered through drivers, not hardware

there are no hardware differences in the NV35 over the NV30 that improved IQ

The IQ improvements were purely a driver thing, specifically with filtering methods

the same improvements in IQ can be seen on the NV30 with the 44.03 drivers, and it is strictly a filtering thing, Trilinear and Tri + Aniso

koldchillah
05-15-03, 05:35 PM
have you guys heard anything about this?

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1086025,00.asp

seems they are accusing NVidia of cheating their 3DMark2003 scores via the 44.03 DetonatorFX drivers.

Brent
05-15-03, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by koldchillah
have you guys heard anything about this?

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1086025,00.asp

seems they are accusing NVidia of cheating their 3DMark2003 scores via the 44.03 DetonatorFX drivers.

yes

Kyle made a statement on the front page today, scroll down: http://www.hardocp.com/

We had a very long discussion about it here: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=613531

B3D has discussion going on here: http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5874 and here: http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5852 and here: http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5856

Rage3D, NVnews, Anandtech, all the forums have their own threads about all of this

its everywhere

koldchillah
05-15-03, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by Brent
yes
its everywhere

lol, oh.. yeah.. I forgot.

its everywhere.

I'm slow today... just ran into the article 5 minutes ago and saw you guys discussing it here..



I still want both cards... :D

YARDofSTUF
05-16-03, 06:49 AM
cant someone just make a clearcut winner!!!!!