Immigrants, Not Americans, Must Adapt!

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arkie
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Immigrants, Not Americans, Must Adapt!

Post by arkie »

I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Americans.

However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the politically correct" crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to America. Our population is almost entirely comprised of descendants of immigrants.
However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand. This idea ofAmerica being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Americans, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom. We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!

"In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.
If Stars and Stripes offend you, or you don't like Uncle Sam, then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from.

This is OUR COUNTRY, our land, and our lifestyle. Our First Amendment gives every citizen the right to express his opinion and we will allow you every opportunity to do so. But, once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about our flag, our pledge, our national motto, or our way of life, I highly encourage you to take advantage of one other great American freedom, THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.

Finally, someone has said what I think has been on every American's mind!!!!! This is an editorial written by an American citizen, published in a local newspaper.
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Post by Bouncer »

"If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture. "

Well spoken by Osama Bin laden and various other pious individuals who would murder everyone who disagrees with them. Pay attention, because this is important. What separates us from the countries that stone people to death for not wearing burkhas or veils isn't the TYPE of religion. It's the fact that we DO NOT, CAN NOT, and SHALL NOT let ANY religion be the OFFICIAL religion of our country.

There ought to be an intelligence test to be a US citizen. If you can't figure out why having a priest a minister or a mullah be a trial judge or the President of the United States is a bad idea, you shouldn't be allowed to vote or write editorials until you have lived someplace where it is allowed.

And hopefully seen and been persecuted a bit, maybe had your tongue ripped out for speaking blasphemy by disagreeing with a religious judicial ruling. Maybe had your feet burned with a white hot branding iron to mark you as a heretic. Until then people like this need to be quiet and get a little less ignorant. Our country was founded on the idea of religious (cultural) tolerance. The people who wrote the constitution very specifically did not want ANY type of (christian or otherwise) gov't sanctioned religion. Again, pay attention. The very FIRST line in the first amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America is this:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,"

Get it? They thought it was THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO SAY! NUMBER ONE! BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE! THAT IMPORTANT!

See, they understood that religious (and cultural) tolerance is what makes or breaks a country. Maybe one day the author of this editorial will figure out what they knew two hundred and twenty five years ago. Being burned alive for not having same beliefs or cultural background is bad. *Tolerance* and diversity is good.

A true Christian should understand that God wants ALL his children, and not just the Baptists, Methodists, or Sunnis to live in peace. All of them. But then again, getting people to practice what they preach has always been a pain in the ass. I can practice tolerance and diversity, I am after all, tolerating this ignorant drivel. Are you strong enough, man enough, to let others live in peace? Or are you too scared of those who look, or think a little differently?

Because if you REALLY think that all others should convert to Christianity to be a poart of the US, then really, there's NOT much difference between you, and OBL. Change it from Christianity to extreme Islam and it's the same tired argument on either side.

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Post by eddiec »

Welcome back, Bouncer.

To paraphrase both posts, don't try to change or condem what I am, and I will not only tolerate but respect what makes you different from me.
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Post by SeedOfChaos »

Bouncer, that was an EXCELLENT post!!! Thank you!

One thing I would like to add... MANY of the "original immigrants" to the US were going there for one major reason: religious freedom.

To be honest, I think it's scary when Bush promises to go after every country that does not share the US's values and morals. See, there are a few European countries who have slightly different views on world politics. Not much, but there are some distinct differences. Is Bush gonna go after us as well? Most European countries are social market economies (NOT communist), which is a value that we Europeans have. The US doesn't share this view, which is perfectly fine for me, I live here in Europe, are we bad people because of that?

IMO many people across the world need to learn that their view isn't the only right one.

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Post by CiscoKid »

Bouncer and SoC, great posts!!
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Post by arkie »

Originally posted by Bouncer
"If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture. "

Regards,
-Bouncer-
"If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture."

God IS a part of our culture... have you ever noticed our currency? Some would like to change that, I'm sure some are offended with "In God We Trust". But that sure doesn't stop them from desiring and using those In God We Trust USA dollars. :)

One can ADD words and re-phrase to change the true meaning of my copied post... just like our forefathers [the people that wrote our constitution] would never believe how people would try to change the true meaning of what they wrote. Seems "In God We Trust" was around even back then.

And the part about Bin laden... now come on.

Also... there is nothing mention in the post about ANYONE being FORCED into anything.



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Post by terrancelam »

people like you make me sick. I'm glad I live where I live. The cultural melthing pot, paah. It may unify your people in a way that Canadians will never have, but atleast it doesn't try to destroy who you are and where you come from.
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Re: .....

Post by CiscoKid »

Originally posted by terrancelam
people like you make me sick. I'm glad I live where I live. The cultural melthing pot, paah. It may unify your people in a way that Canadians will never had, but atleast it doesn't try to destroy who you are and where you come from.
Valid point. To add to what you said terrancelam, The "Melting Pot" theory has been tossed out in exchange for a "Salad Bowl" theory for the US. People who shed thei culture end up like me, I had NO connection to my past, to my roots...

As for the "In God We Trust" Arkie insists is our national motto, that may be true, however, if is NOT liked by a majority of the rightfull owners for the US territory, by the Native Americans who were here LONG before the US is what it has become. The dribble in the original editorial is just that, nonsence. Yes, imigrants should adapt to the new country, but also, the new country should adapt to the imigrants. How else would we have a cultural blanding that beniffites all mankind in the US?
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Post by brembo »

Whoa Terrance-easy now.


This arguement is now an attempt to MAKE people be Americans, whatever that means. Its a lashback to the political correctness campaign. How would you feel if you allowed someone to come over to your house, live there and came home one day to find that they had sold your furniture and replaced it with stuff THEY liked more? You be hell bent on gettin yer furniture back, and have it EXACTLY the way you had it before.

1.)You might argue that immigrants need to have bi-lingual assistance. This is true, but why should the whole system change? I don't wanna know spanish, I'll still honing my english skills. If the task is too hard, you are more than free to find a more accomodating place.

2.)The flag. Simple, if it bothers you, too bad. Its the country yer in, deal with it. The fact that you see a Red, White and Blue flag fluttering over yer head means that yer free to get away from it(children do NOT apply, they are not full blown citizens as of yet).

3.) Religion. Whats wrong with having "In God We Trust" on bills, and money? Take a long hard look at the money, and I defy you to find one reference to WHICH God is being trusted. I don't see Budda or Minerva on there, no depictions of Jesus either. So it seems that the religion aspect is how YOU decide to take it. Hell, for some people it could be the next door neighbors poodle.

Don't get me wrong, Immigrants are what made this country what it is today, a juggernaut of fiscal and military power. The many different cultures intermingling and adding effectivness to one another. But what does not need to happen is create mini-countries within America, the homogeneus aspect that makes us so succesful would be lost. I'm ramblin now. Thats all.
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Post by mouse »

I myself tend to agree with Arkie in this.

God is a part of the american culture and should not be removed for our offices, schools or currancy.

This country fought for it's freedom and won. Our forefathers wanted to live where they were free practice any religion they choose. BUT they all believe that there was a God. That is what they used in their Wording "God" not "Christian God" or Protastant God" or "Muslim God".

Just "God", they acknowledged that there was something above ourselves to believe in and they made there laws so that you would be free to practice and Worship in anyway that you choose.

I feel that anyone that comes to this country should understand that they are now Choosing to be part of this country and there are a few things that they will need to learn.

The english language - This is the Language that American uses. although you will not be forced to stop speaking your native language, You may speak any language you choose.

The fact that American Believes in the Idea of God - You will not be procecuted for believing in any God that you choose or for not believing in any God at all. You will never be forced to attend a Church of any kind.

I myself do not believe in god and I am thankful that I am in a country were I can openly Voice my opinions and not be forced or beaten to believe in another mans God. I understand that this country is based on belief that there is a god and has in doing that allowed and protected my right to not believe.

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Post by Brent »

even with all the crap the US has in it, I still think we are one of the better countrys in terms of oppurtunity and a chance at a good life... life is pretty much how you make it, make it a good one, or a bad one

however we must not let history be forgotton or twisted, we must remember how things came up so that we don't make the same mistakes again, isn't that why we study history? ;)

we cannot forget how and why and how or constituation came to be

to deny the facts would be stupid and arrogent, immagrants must know this... If i were to say move to another country, Europe, Cananda etc... I would want to learn the history so I know the lay of the land and the culture so that I can make informed choices in my life styles in that country...
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Post by Deus ex Machina »

What makes the USA so cool is that Arkie has the freedom to express himself.

The first piece of US currency to bear the motto "In G-d We Trust" was the 2 cent coin in 1864. The motto was added nearly 90 years after the birth of this nation. The phrase, "under G-d" was added to the pledge of allegiance. The US has seperation between church and state. People are allowed to practice any faith that does not break any laws.

This country is a fantastic melting pot (as is Canada!). In the 1800's there was no pizza or pasta in the US. Think of the Asian delicacies that the Japanese, Chinese, Korea, Vietnamese and Thai have brought to our table. How about music? Latin and African rhythms course and flavor our airwaves. Spiritualism from the Near East. America is so cool because of all the people bringing a little of their old home with them to their new one.

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Post by 64bit »

1.)You might argue that immigrants need to have bi-lingual assistance. This is true, but why should the whole system change? I don't wanna know spanish, I'll still honing my english skills. If the task is too hard, you are more than free to find a more accomodating place.

2.)The flag. Simple, if it bothers you, too bad. Its the country yer in, deal with it. The fact that you see a Red, White and Blue flag fluttering over yer head means that yer free to get away from it(children do NOT apply, they are not full blown citizens as of yet).
Nobody will say it better that this! When you immigrate somewhere you do it because you want to go there. If you don't like it when you get there immigrate somewhere else. terrancelam seems to like canada :D
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Post by brembo »

Why thank you 64bit. Yer on my "do NOT kill" list now. :D
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Post by Norm »

I was going to stay out of this thread but the "In God We Trust" thing is eating away at me once again.

There is no trust in God, don't flatter yourselves. God (and there is only one God) if at all, wants us to forgive our enemies, and NOT kill them and anyone close enough to get hit by the shrapnel. If we trusted in God we'd live by His rules, and we don't.
I may be a Canadian, but I know deceit when I see it.

You and I may want these terrorists dead, but God doesn't. He and ONLY He decides who lives and dies. One of His Ten Commandments is "Thou Shalt Not Kill"
It doesn't mean maybe, or when your pissed at some killers, it means "Thou Shalt not Kill" EVER.

I must also add that, other than Canada, the U.S. is the best country in the world :)

I'm not intending to bash Americans, only state my opinion as I see it. Canadians are just as hipocritical as Americans when it comes to God, and the lack of Trust In Him
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Post by Deus ex Machina »

Originally posted by Norm
I was going to stay out of this thread but the "In God We Trust" thing is eating away at me once again.

There is no trust in God, don't flatter yourselves. God (and there is only one God) if at all, wants us to forgive our enemies, and NOT kill them and anyone close enough to get hit by the shrapnel. If we trusted in God we'd live by His rules, and we don't.
I may be a Canadian, but I know deceit when I see it.

You and I may want these terrorists dead, but God doesn't. He and ONLY He decides who lives and dies. One of His Ten Commandments is "Thou Shalt Not Kill"
It doesn't mean maybe, or when your pissed at some killers, it means "Thou Shalt not Kill" EVER.

I must also add that, other than Canada, the U.S. is the best country in the world :)

I'm not intending to bash Americans, only state my opinion as I see it. Canadians are just as hipocritical as Americans when it comes to God, and the lack of Trust In Him
Christ wishes you to forgive your enemies...
I wish I had the line that Prey gave me, but it stated that we are permitted to carry out G-d's justice. A bit of Old book.

That aside, followers of organised religion will always have some hypocritical twists. It is difficult to justify your acts as G-d will... Does any of us really have that magnitude of wisdom?

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Post by downhill »

I wonder who is feeding who?

Is it really the political correctness faction causing trouble? Or is it the obsessive far right of Falwell's, Pat Robertson's and even Scifie himself. I do hope that most reading this also realize that Sun Yung Moon is also funding a huge amout of fantic babble in this country. Maybe it's the "political correct" crowd that's saving this country from a fate worse than communism. Religious fanaticism as Bouncer already pointed out, is an ugly master.


Jesus had a simple message of peace and love. Men cannot take that without twisting it for power and prestige. Sad.
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Post by Gandalf »

Our Founding Fathers were immigrants. ;)
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Post by brembo »

DHD-

I got a little skewed in my intro, lost my train of thought. Kinda muddled it a bit. The PC bit was kinda in left field.

Anytime a statement as broad as "All immigrants are polka-dotted" it will stir up a hornets nest. My angle is that WHY do people feel impelled to want to change what is the staus-quo? You don't stroll into someone elses house and DEMAND that the recliner be moved for THIER convience. As a gracious host, you would no doubt do so, if the situation warrants. Now if yer guest is a healthy 18 year old man, you'd tell him to suck it up and deal with it. If it was your 85 y/o grandmother, you'd bemd over backwards to make her comfy.

I see a snowball effect, one group gets dispensatiion, and the other groups want a piece of that, where does it stop? Gonna put in an elevator for your twice removed uncle that does not like stairs? I agree that as Americans we SHOULD be open and accepting of differing cultures. The squeaky wheel gets grease I guess, and politicians are willing to cast aside common sense for those seeemimgly comfy seats in the house. I have no solution, I'd be crazy as hell to say I did, I can only offer my ideas on why they arise.

I'm I makin any sense? Or should I pack it in and go to bed? :)
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Post by downhill »

No need to pack it in. :D

I follow what your saying. My post is to address the religious fanaticism part. Prayer in schools? I'm not against that. I'm only against the part to follow that Muslim's and Buddist will have to bow to the same deity.

As to the same language part, I've not made up my mind. Seems strange that most of the educated world has a population that can speak two languages but the US.


Now on the the "political correctness". Maybe it's the only way to fight the facism facing us? Dunno. I wonder if this country is not at a very dangerous crossroad.
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Post by brembo »

Define facism for me, never had a good grasp of it.
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Post by downhill »

From Dictionary.com.....
fas·cism (fshzm)
n.
often Fascism
A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.


Oppressive, dictatorial control.


Ok as it relates to what I'm talking about......the far right of the religious of this country subscribes to a part of this. The malipulaton of the news media......and belligerent nationalism and ..now substitute racism for religious intolerance.




I'll get my hand slapped for this but what the heck.....

I'd say that a good amout of folk reading this and profess to be christians will take offense....We all want to be right. Wars are fought for less.
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Post by brembo »

You sir, are a brave man. Gettin the hordes of "holier than thou" people on yer bum like that. Needed to be said tho.

I'm gettin a clearer picture of yer concerns. Gonna have to ruminate on this awhile. My hemispheres are gettin alot of cross-talk, cannot seperate the rational from the emotional right now. Thanks DHD.
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Post by fanta »

When I read posts like these, I start to realize that no matter how much we think we know and control our lives, and the lives around us...

we are at the mercy of the uknown.
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