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Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:34 am
by TonyT
Sid wrote:No problem. Myself, I'm a Debian core man. Running Ubuntu Breezy on the lappy, but have installed and ran Etch for a few weeks. Gave up after having so many problems getting the hardware to work right.
...me too! I use straight Debian itself and APT package manager. It's so simple, if I want a package I open a cmd and type:
apt-get install blah_blah
and the rest is automatic.
If I want to uninstall something I type:
apt-get remove blah_blah
and if I want to remove ALL of the package:
apt-get --purge remove blah_blah or
dpkg --purge blah_blah
This is real handy cause if I found I installed a package with unmet dependencies (almost impossible using apt) then I can --purge remove it all and start over.
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:25 am
by Izzo
cyberskye wrote: 
With taht spirit you'll be a guru in no time.
Glad you worked it out.
Skye
EDIT - while for the 'hacking' experience and learning how things work, manual installs and configuration are great...if you plan on being a pro administrator, with a lot of boxes to manage, you WILL need to use automation. Learning the ins N outs of a package mgr is a very marketable skill.
Y'know....the funny thing my instructor in class suggests that I need to learn to do things manually in order to truly understand how things work ...which I can see but in a nutshell he contradicts your statement ...and to be honest I believe you more than I do him.
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:56 am
by cyberskye
Izzo wrote:Y'know....the funny thing my instructor in class suggests that I need to learn to do things manually in order to truly understand how things work ...which I can see but in a nutshell he contradicts your statement ...and to be honest I believe you more than I do him.
Not constradictory really - I would agree in general. I was just pointing out that learning how package managers work is not a waste of time. I was suggesting RPM for your web browser as that is a critical piece for learning - getting updates, reading articles, etc. If you are planning on managing webservers, I would suggest you learn how to roll your own first.
Learn how it works nuts n bolts first, then learn how to automate. Makes perfect sense to me.
To clarify, if you are applying for a job as a linux admin and you don't know server mgmt tools (mgmt, deployment, automation in general), they may pass you over. Can you do all those tasks through scripting? Of course, but it would take all your time to write and maintain those scripts. You can't deploy FF manually to 100 desktops...when it comes to troubleshooting, you need to know how to do things manually.
Hackers (classic definition) tend to use bubble gum (trial n error) which can leave a system less than clean - analogy is having a bunch of unused crap in the windows registry.
In the business world you want consistency, in reasearch/dev you want creativity. All depends on where you want to go with your experience.
Stick with what your instructor says - s/he is writing your report card
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:58 am
by cyberskye
TonyT wrote:...me too! I use straight Debian itself and APT package manager. It's so simple, if I want a package I open a cmd and type:
apt-get install blah_blah
and the rest is automatic.
If I want to uninstall something I type:
apt-get remove blah_blah
and if I want to remove ALL of the package:
apt-get --purge remove blah_blah or
dpkg --purge blah_blah
This is real handy cause if I found I installed a package with unmet dependencies (almost impossible using apt) then I can --purge remove it all and start over.
apt-get is based on BSD ports system - if you like that you would dig on FreeBSD or OpenBSD - the latter of which I am surprised you haven't tried yet. Most secure OS (by default install) out there. Makes one hell of a bastion server.
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:59 am
by cyberskye
Izzo wrote:Y'know....the funny thing my instructor in class suggests that I need to learn to do things manually in order to truly understand how things work ...which I can see but in a nutshell he contradicts your statement ...and to be honest I believe you more than I do him.
BTW - I spoke with the kernel and he says he is starting to like you again, Izzo. It's a good day.
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:21 pm
by TonyT
cyberskye wrote:apt-get is based on BSD ports system - if you like that you would dig on FreeBSD or OpenBSD - the latter of which I am surprised you haven't tried yet. Most secure OS (by default install) out there. Makes one hell of a bastion server.
Every time I attempted to install it I ran into one or another issue, most likely cause I am so used to the terribly simple Deb installer. The BSD installer is far from user friendly and contains terminology that I have yet to fully clear up for myself and understand. So every time I ended up returning to what I know, the Deb installer, and build it from ground up in less than an hour by installing using ftp or http.
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:36 pm
by cyberskye
TonyT wrote:Every time I attempted to install it I ran into one or another issue, most likely cause I am so used to the terribly simple Deb installer. The BSD installer is far from user friendly and contains terminology that I have yet to fully clear up for myself and understand. So every time I ended up returning to what I know, the Deb installer, and build it from ground up in less than an hour by installing using ftp or http.
Sure - I'm not knocking linux at all. The BSDs are a little more stable due to their dedicated release teams - not the adhoc dev model that Linux uses (very successfully btw).
OpenBSD is incredibly stable - their team (IMO, correctly) feels that security risks mainly arise from sloppy coding or limitted design - so they are constantly auditing every line of code for correctness and simplicity. Makes for a VERY stable and secure OS. You should only need to reboot when updating the kernel or if you are playing with security levels.
Apache, for example, is chroot by default - apache vulnerabilities can only affect the overall system to a certain point. Memeory/process management is also very paranoid and prevents many exploits. But I wouldn't run it as a dedicated database server - linux is much better for that.
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:33 pm
by Lefty
cyberskye wrote:I spoke with the kernel and he says he is starting to like you again, Izzo.
I'm glad I learned unix from the ground up, it is worth it and now I can move around on most linux boxes with little problems. I need a spare box or laptop to install it for myself. I had to give back the HPUX 20 I had borrowed a while back for playing round with.
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:21 pm
by A_old
gentoo ;D emerge is fricken bueno..would have solved this issue from the get go since it takes care of depends properly....it is a little bit of a pain to setup tho hehe
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:22 pm
by Izzo
cyberskye wrote:BTW - I spoke with the kernel and he says he is starting to like you again, Izzo. It's a good day.
rofl.....his chicken rocks
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:13 pm
by cyberskye
Izzo wrote:rofl.....his chicken rocks
Even better - I own that book, BTW
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:56 pm
by Izzo
Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:43 pm
by Izzo
ok ...I installed BIND and now i'm looking for the named.conf file to configure DNS ..I can't seem to find it and it isn't in the /etc directory ....I emailed for help but it's been 2 days and I really need to get this project done....what am I doing wrong ?
Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:22 pm
by TonyT
Izzo wrote:ok ...I installed BIND and now i'm looking for the named.conf file to configure DNS ..I can't seem to find it and it isn't in the /etc directory ....I emailed for help but it's been 2 days and I really need to get this project done....what am I doing wrong ?
saw this here:
http://www.falkotimme.com/howtos/perfec ... rake_10_2/ (btw, a great guide & apt IS available for mandriva!!!!!)
DNS-Server
apt-get install bind
In the Manadrake BIND package there are a few files missing (e.g. /etc/named.conf), therefore BIND will not start when you run
/etc/init.d/named start
This is nothing to worry about because all needed files are created by ISPConfig as soon as you create your first DNS record with ISPConfig.
Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:23 pm
by cyberskye
Izzo wrote:ok ...I installed BIND and now i'm looking for the named.conf file to configure DNS ..I can't seem to find it and it isn't in the /etc directory ....I emailed for help but it's been 2 days and I really need to get this project done....what am I doing wrong ?
That should search the whole system for the file - works on any unix system.
Most linux distros install
locate...
(this updates the file database)
(this searches for the named file)
Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:25 pm
by Izzo
cyberskye wrote:
That should search the whole system for the file - works on any unix system.
Most linux distros install
locate...
(this updates the file database)
(this searches for the named file)
yep ..did those last night ..searched the entire system and nada
Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:25 pm
by Izzo
TonyT wrote:saw this here:
http://www.falkotimme.com/howtos/perfec ... rake_10_2/ (btw, a great guide & apt IS available for mandriva!!!!!)
DNS-Server
apt-get install bind
In the Manadrake BIND package there are a few files missing (e.g. /etc/named.conf), therefore BIND will not start when you run
/etc/init.d/named start
This is nothing to worry about because all needed files are created by ISPConfig as soon as you create your first DNS record with ISPConfig.
yep ...even looked there ...nothin'
Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:32 pm
by Izzo
ok ...found a named within /usr/sbin but when i try to open it with vi it looks encrypted ...suggestions ? ..not sure why i didnt see it before or when i searched(from the terminal and the gui)...I looked at the site last night and was follwoing those instructions ... is this the correct file ... ia ssume it is .
Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:05 pm
by cyberskye
Izzo wrote:ok ...found a named within /usr/sbin but when i try to open it with vi it looks encrypted ...suggestions ? ..not sure why i didnt see it before or when i searched(from the terminal and the gui)...I looked at the site last night and was follwoing those instructions ... is this the correct file ... ia ssume it is .
most things in /bin /usr/sbin are binary files - if you do
it will prbably tell you so.
EDIT: have you run the ISPConfig proggie that Tony referenced?
Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:00 pm
by Izzo
cyberskye wrote:most things in /bin /usr/sbin are binary files - if you do
it will prbably tell you so.
EDIT: have you run the ISPConfig proggie that Tony referenced?
doing that now ....
Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:20 pm
by Izzo
didn't work
anyone one of these ?
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:04 am
by cyberskye
There are a lot of pages on google talking about a kernel bug or a bug in certain versions of find that causes this.
In any case, /proc is a directory that the kernel writes some system stats to so other programs can use it without actually querying the system and bogging it down.
Which kernel version are you running? (uname -r will tell you)
Skye
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:16 am
by TonyT
I suggest you install the APT package manager as outlined on that link I posted. Then do:
apt-get --purge remove bind ISPConfig
and then use apt to reinstall them:
apt-get install bind
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:42 am
by Izzo
ya, installed the apt package manager and that worked ok but i still couldn't find the named.conf file.... gave up for the night as my son was ill.... working now so i'll give the rest a go later ...again thanks for going to such lengths to help
edit> tried installing BIND again but it said mine was current..i'll purge it and try again
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:00 pm
by mmione
with Ubuntu I judt do iwconfig eth1 essid wireless-m (its a wireless connection) then dhclient eth1. im connected.
so if its a ethernet connection its sudo ifconfig eth1 then sudo dhclient eth1.
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:07 pm
by YARDofSTUF
I'm waiting for my ubuntu CDs.
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:12 pm
by Sid
YARDofSTUF wrote:I'm waiting for my ubuntu CDs.
I just installed 64bit Dapper Drake. Pretty impressive so far. I had to build some driver modules from source but that's become pretty easy.
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:12 pm
by Izzo
mmione wrote:with Ubuntu I judt do iwconfig eth1 essid wireless-m (its a wireless connection) then dhclient eth1. im connected.
so if its a ethernet connection its sudo ifconfig eth1 then sudo dhclient eth1.
I'm online and I configured my card ok ...that's not the problem....my little 'project' is to setup a basic DNS server.
and the named.conf file is nowhere to be found...
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:17 pm
by Sid
Izzo wrote:I'm online and I configured my card ok ...that's not the problem....my little 'project' is to setup a basic DNS server.
and the named.conf file is nowhere to be found...
su
updatedb
locate named.conf
File is probably hidden, search as su or root
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:19 pm
by Izzo
Sid wrote:su
updatedb
locate named.conf
File is probably hidden, search as su or root
yep....did all that....I posted a pic above
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:20 pm
by mmione
YARDofSTUF wrote:I'm waiting for my ubuntu CDs.
it takes a while, they come from France.
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:31 pm
by Sid
Izzo wrote:yep....did all that....I posted a pic above
Izzo, check the bottom of
this page. I don't know a cure other then using a distro a bit more server friendly.
Maybe there is something that will help you on that site.
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:33 pm
by Sid
Why don't you guys just download them. They have pretty fast servers.
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:38 pm
by YARDofSTUF
Sid wrote:Why don't you guys just download them. They have pretty fast servers.
Cuz there free
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:41 pm
by Izzo
Sid wrote:Izzo, check the bottom of
this page. I don't know a cure other then using a distro a bit more server friendly.
Maybe there is something that will help you on that site.
Will do, unfortunately I'm stuck with this one for class. Needless to say this will be my last semester there.
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:22 pm
by Sid
Where did you get the copy of bind from? Have you considered getting it from ISC.org or grabbing the source and building it yourself?
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:26 pm
by Izzo
Sid wrote:Where did you get the copy of bind from? Have you considered getting it from ISC.org or grabbing the source and building it yourself?
Ya, just got some info on this ...Mandriva doesn't include a sample named.conf file you gotta create it from scratch
I installed it from the Mandriva Cd's ...building it would be beyond my current abilities i'm sure...also tried the apt-get bind ...said mine was current... was going to purge and try apt-get again and see what happens but i doubt it'll include any sample...
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:45 pm
by Sid
There just zone files more or less. Check this out.
http://www.howtoforge.net/traditional_dns_howto_p2
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:11 pm
by Izzo
Awesome ... that looks like exactly what I need.
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:37 pm
by cyberskye
I thought you understood about the named.conf - it isn't created until you run the front end app - per Tony's linkage
TonyT wrote:
In the Manadrake BIND package there are a few files missing (e.g. /etc/named.conf), therefore BIND will not start when you run
/etc/init.d/named start
This is nothing to worry about because all needed files are created by ISPConfig as soon as you create your first DNS record with ISPConfig.[/i]
Izzo wrote:Ya, just got some info on this ...Mandriva doesn't include a sample named.conf file you gotta create it from scratch
I installed it from the Mandriva Cd's ...building it would be beyond my current abilities i'm sure...also tried the apt-get bind ...said mine was current... was going to purge and try apt-get again and see what happens but i doubt it'll include any sample...
