SCotUSA upholds "no military recruiting; no money" law

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thepieman
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Post by thepieman »

UOD wrote:There is no fault to be found in the message.

I find your choice of words to be, interesting.

When you say..."they put out their message", I wonder why you see a division at all. I see the us vs. them argument.

I am on your side Pie. I'm an American and would be proud to stand by you even if it's in disagreement.

The military is trying to do right. They CRAM education down all our throats on a constant basis. I think it's great because in the end, we get more productive citizens. Education is even more of a factor in promotion these days.

All I can say is, every basic trainee graduate wanted to graduate. Trainees have every opportunity to drop out. So if they feel they were fed a BS lie through the recruitment process, they have every opportunity to bug out. there are no video games in basic training.
When I say they..I mean the branches of the military.

I see TV ads by the military, I see games put out on the net by the military(Americas Army), I see videos put out on the net by the military, I see posters , Humvees, trucks, Recruiting trailers,I've seen videos of recruiters going to malls and canvassing for recruits and recruiting storefronts as well. Why the need to be on school campuses too when it obviously upsets the parents? Yes you can say that if they get federal funds and blah blah blah but initially where does the government get those funds from?

Pie
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Post by Meggie »

thepieman wrote:When I say they..I mean the branches of the military.

I see TV ads by the military, I see games put out on the net by the military(Americas Army), I see videos put out on the net by the military, I see posters , Humvees, trucks, Recruiting trailers,I've seen videos of recruiters going to malls and canvassing for recruits and recruiting storefronts as well. Why the need to be on school campuses too when it obviously upsets the parents? Yes you can say that if they get federal funds and blah blah blah but initially where does the government get those funds from?

Pie
hey i pay taxes too.
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Post by knightmare »

It's a little more simple in Israel, most everyone serves.


Regular Service

National military service is compulsory for Jewish men and women over the age of 18, although exemptions may be made on religious, physical, pacifist or psychological grounds (see Profile 21). The fact that an increasing number of men in the Haredi community are exempt has been a source of tension in Israeli society.

Men serve three years in the IDF, as do the women in combat positions, while women in non-combat positions serve two. The IDF requires women who volunteer for combat positions to serve for three years because combat soldiers must undergo a lengthy period of training, and it is in the interests of the IDF to get as much use of that training as possible. Women in combat positions are also required to serve as reserve for several years after their dismissal from regular service.


Reserve Service

Following regular service, men may be called for reserve service of up to one month annually, until the age of 43-45 (reservists may volunteer after this age), and may be called for active duty immediately in times of crisis. In most cases, the reserve duty is carried out in the same unit for years, in many cases the same unit as the active service and by the same people. Many soldiers who have served together in active service continue to meet in reserve duty for years after their discharge, causing reserve duty to become a strong male bonding experience in Israeli society. A well-known Israeli joke refers to civilians as soldiers on 11-month furloughs.
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thepieman
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Post by thepieman »

Meggie wrote:hey i pay taxes too.
Ok so whats next then meggie? School Baseball Games?School Football games? Maybe a table outside the Prom Dance hall? You were asking for ideas a while back on where or how to recruit people. How about Church picnics? Where will the next creative idea take another recruiter? If its as good as you say it is..you wouldn't have to go to them , they'd be flocking to you. Either way, you being a recruiter of sorts yourself are of course going to be biased and of course the parents of these children will have no bearing on what you or other recruiters will do to accomplish your tasks. As you have said in the other thread similiar to this...its pretty much that you take it personally, rather then something to protect the kids. Maybe when you get older and another war such as this comes along and you have children you may change your tune. Going by what you say, you should be in a much better position , in a much better neighborhood, good job and your kids will more then likely end up going to college...you too may feel that your kids education is more important then risk having some recruiter who may or may not be on the up and up possibly interrupt their education.


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Post by David »

Not to slight anyone's military experience, but I can think of better ways to teach responsibility. Like Meggie said, for many, the armed services are one of the very few ways out of poverty. Do they genuinely need to actively recruit?

Hell_Yes

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Post by MadDoctor »

Hell_Yes wrote: I can think of better ways to teach responsibility.
Are you looking at me again?!?!?!?!





;)
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Post by Leatherneck »

Hell_Yes wrote:Not to slight anyone's military experience, but I can think of better ways to teach responsibility. Like Meggie said, for many, the armed services are one of the very few ways out of poverty. Do they genuinely need to actively recruit?
David! I would have given my left one if it were only that easy. More then once while recruiting I wondered how hard I could run my vehicle into a tree to hurt myself just bad enough to go home, but not die. It is by far (and with the admission of the Commandant) the hardest duty in the Corps eclipsing Drill Instructor Duty. My goal was 3 kids a month every month for 3 years and it was broken down between grads, seniors, fast shippers, occupational fields and gender. On top of all that, the ASVAB is no piece of cake for many of these kids. The Corps and the Air Force were rather strict during my tour and many kids found theirselves walking down the hall either going home or trying the Navy or Army with a "roll the dice, no guarantee" enlistment.
I made it through because of honor, committment, dedication & mostly because it was my A$$ if I failed! My particular time on recruiting duty was late '88 - late '91 and we were beefing up with Desert Storm. We swelled to the largest numbers in years and that made it tougher.

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Post by David »

[quote="MadDoctor"]Are you looking at me again?!?!?!?!





]


Lustfully...

Hell_Yes

Luck is where preparation meets opportunity - Seneca

"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov

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Post by David »

bigmo66 wrote:David! I would have given my left one if it were only that easy.
..steps off soapbox

Image

That could be arranged...... :)

Hell_Yes

Luck is where preparation meets opportunity - Seneca

"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov

It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book. - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Post by MadDoctor »

Hell_Yes wrote:Image

That could be arranged...... :)
My kind of guy!!!!!!


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
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Post by David »

MadDoctor wrote:My kind of guy!!!!!!


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

You should have seen the looks on the Home Depot folks as I meandered through aisles hefting this puppy.

Hell_Yes

Luck is where preparation meets opportunity - Seneca

"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov

It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book. - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Post by SpareX »

I went to a Private school. the school would still lose NOTHING if they refused to allow the military to recruit on thier property. The school is funded bythe local community church that is backing it. the school also has many people in the community comming in and donating to the school because of how much the school gives to it.

But the school allows it, we had a recruiter from the Air force, Marines, Army and Navy, all show up. each recruiter got 2 chances to show. they could show for the 1 shot at all of them showing up at once during our chapel service that happened once a week. That chapel service meeting where the recruiters did show up was great.. the recruiter could do whatever they wanted, just as long as they were respectful not only of the church they were in, but of the mix of religions present in the students. Best event that was done by the marines recruiter was a physical test.. The students chose a classmate that was voted to be the strongest and in most physical shape and was to go against the one marine in 2 different exercises. 1, Tug of war contest, Students Vs the marine.. Was a blast to see this guy vs 6 students all in great shape.. the other contest was a pushup contest. Who could do more push ups then the recruiter.. it was pretty funny when a freshman won one year.. :rotfl: The other visit they were offered was to open up a little information stand in the library durring lunch, the library was accross the hall from the cafe so everyone that went to the cafe was able to go in at thier leisure.

In The end, the recruiters know full well that they cannot pressure anyone at any time to do anything in a school function. Thier presence is either ignored or welcomed by the student body and the staff..

what happens off campus is a different story but just getting someone to the office to get more info is a GREAT chance for them to get recruited aggressivly but most of the students today know this and are probally expecting it. Belive me alot of kids these days are not as dumb as people make them out to be..

So here is a school that has nothing to gain and nothing to lose from having them there. I REALLY dont think recruiters will want to be on school campus every single day or cold call every single student. you know how fast that will turn kids off to thinking about going and joining? Belive me, A smart recruiter will know, plant a seed, help it grow, give it time.. and they will come to you...
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Post by cyberskye »

I don't understand why the military is fighting so hard to recruit on campus when they have your info already - maybe don't want the parents involved and providing bad advice :rolleyes:

http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S ... enu36_17_8
To meet recruiting goals, WIS found the military is getting some help from Congress. As part of the No Child Left Behind law, schools are handing over a list with the names, phone numbers and addresses of every public high school student in the nation.

If they don't, they risk losing federal funds. It helps recruiters like Sgt. First Class Christopher Wunsch, "There's no one to fill those jobs, fill those boots if we don't do our job."
anything is possible - nothing is free

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Post by Jamie_R »

Hell_Yes wrote:Image

That could be arranged...... :)
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

I love it! :D
.

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Post by MadDoctor »

A U.S. Navy cruiser pulled into port in Mississippi for a week's liberty. The first evening, the Captain was more than a little surprised to receive the following letter from the wife of a wealthy plantation owner:

"Dear Captain, Thursday will be my daughter Melinda's, coming of age party. I would like you to send four well mannered, handsome, unmarried Marine Officers. They should arrive at 8 p.m. prepared for an evening of polite southern conversation and dance with lovely young ladies.

One last point: No, Mexicans. We don't like Mexicans."

Sure enough, at 8 p.m. on Thursday, the lady heard a rap at the door. She opened the door to find, in dress uniform, four exquisitely mannered, smiling black officers. Her jaw hit the floor, but pulling herself together she stammered, "There must be some mistake!"

"Oh no, madam," said the first officer, "Captain Martinez doesn't make mistakes
People will forget what you said... and people will forget what you did... but people will never forget how you made them feel.
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Post by MadDoctor »

God was missing for six days. Eventually, Michael, the archangel, found him, resting on the seventh day.

He inquired of God. "Where have you been?"

God sighed a deep sigh of satisfaction, and proudly pointed downwards through the clouds, "Look, Michael. Look what I've made." Archangel Michael looked puzzled, and said, "What is it?"

"It's a planet," replied God, "and I've put Life on it. I'm going to call it Earth and it's going to be a great place of balance." Balance?" inquired Michael, still confused.

God explained, pointing to different parts of earth. "For example,northern Europe will be a place of great opportunity and wealth, while southern Europe is going to be poor.

Over there I've placed a continent of white people, and over there is a continent of black people. Balance in all things," God continued pointing to different countries. "This one will be extremely hot, while this one will be very cold and covered in ice."

The Archangel, impressed by God's work, then pointed to a land area and said, "What's that one?"

"Ah," said God "That's Washington State, the most glorious place on earth. There are beautiful mountains, rivers and streams, lakes, forests, hills, plains, and coulees. The people from Washington State are going to be handsome, modest, intelligent, and humorous, and they are going to be found traveling the world. They will be extremely sociable, hardworking, high achieving, and they will be known throughout the world as diplomats, and carriers of peace."

Michael gasped in wonder and admiration, but then asked, "But what about balance, God? You said there would be balance." God smiled, "There is another Washington...Wait until you see the idiots I put there."
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Post by MadDoctor »

Sorry about the "jack" guys. Just jackin' around.
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Post by Leatherneck »

Hell_Yes wrote:Image

That could be arranged...... :)
A bit of lidocaine first? :eek:
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Post by knightmare »

David should come out of the office like that one time for a 1st time patient...
man, talk about getting a phobia...
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Post by Meggie »

thepieman wrote:Ok so whats next then meggie? School Baseball Games?School Football games? Maybe a table outside the Prom Dance hall? You were asking for ideas a while back on where or how to recruit people. How about Church picnics? Where will the next creative idea take another recruiter? If its as good as you say it is..you wouldn't have to go to them , they'd be flocking to you. Either way, you being a recruiter of sorts yourself are of course going to be biased and of course the parents of these children will have no bearing on what you or other recruiters will do to accomplish your tasks. As you have said in the other thread similiar to this...its pretty much that you take it personally, rather then something to protect the kids. Maybe when you get older and another war such as this comes along and you have children you may change your tune. Going by what you say, you should be in a much better position , in a much better neighborhood, good job and your kids will more then likely end up going to college...you too may feel that your kids education is more important then risk having some recruiter who may or may not be on the up and up possibly interrupt their education.


Pie
the army has its bad sides, actually yesterday i drove a van full of highschool seniors to one of our military installations. One of the kids asked me on the way home.. "ok, youve told me all the good things, whats the bad things about the military" i was just as honest as i was about the good things, i told him that it sucked sometimes, getting up at 4 or 5 am sucks, getting forced to be uncomfortable at times sucks, being cold at times and hot at times and tired, sucks. Being able to be forced to go to a different country for a year or so, sucks. But u know i know more people in the military that look at being deployed as an opportunity rather then this thing looming over there head.

Honestly pie, im not a recruiter, i have absolutly nothing to gain by getting kids in. But i love what i do, i love the military, and it has enriched my life more then any job could have. I try to tell people about all that it has to offer, because i love it so much. Just like if you really loved selling pies, it turned ur life around.. it made you feel great about yourself, being able to sell pies and make pie loving people happy. Im sure you would go ask people if they wanted to join u. The truth may be that sometimes the pie oven burns u, but its part of the job, and certaintly is outweighed by the good. Most of these rectruiting type things i volunteer for. Because i love to talk to these kids and tell them how its effected my life and the lives of my friends in the military. I dont have quotas to meet, no one is on my back to recruit anyone, but i enjoy it.

The reason people arent flocking to the military is because of people like you. I see them all over. People have brainwashed kids to think that if you join the military you are going to get screwed over by your recruiter then you are going to die in iraq. I talk to kids all the time that would never join and when i asked why they say "i dont want to die" Theres a risk, im not denying that. I embrace that risk, just like police and firefighters do everytime they do their job. I see so many adults that say wow i wish i had this opportunity when i was younger, and so many kids saying that they would join but their parents told them that they would practically disown them if they joined.. so theres a lot of people missing out on these opportunities and not fully noticing it until they are too old to join. Thats why people arent flocking to us, thats why we have recruiters at all. Talking to these kids today, there were some that never knew that we paid for college, that never considered the military but now realize that its a great platform to start their professional careers from.

I think i more then a parent understands the risks.. I will be the one over there, i will be the one scared or hungry or homesick. My mom has her only 2 children in the military. I know it scares her. But, i know shes proud of us.. besides it makes me feel good that i didnt have to be a financial burden on her when it came for paying for college. My mom isnt a non caring workaholic either, my mom is about as june cleaver as u can get.. I know it bothers her.. but she would rather see us do what we wanted in life then for her to hold us back and regret it later in life.

And again, the miltiary doesnt interrupt college, so many of the people in my unit are in college full time, i was in college full time and in the military. They even have a program where u can go to basic training during the summer of your junior year and your skill training during the summer of your senior year, so you can go right into college right after u graduate like everyone else. The argument that the military interrupts college has no real truth to it.
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Post by downhill »

Personally I don't see what the flack is. It's a job like any other and high schools/collages across the country have job fairs.

It might seem a bit macabre but hey...no more so that a mortician at at job fair.


It's not like they are getting kids drunk then throwing them on ships about to leave port..sign or swim..
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Post by downhill »

Joint Chiefs of Staff wrote:GI Bill = GOOD! :nod: :thumb:
The best piece of legislation this country has ever done. Bar none.

It's just too bad that over the years, it's been watered down. The last 6 have seen some drastic changes.
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